Chicago CIR MA vs. Columbia PS MA

[te0493]

I am seeking advice for the Master's programs at University of Chicago CIR (Committee on International Relations) and at Columbia University (Political Science). I originally applied to the PhD programs in PoliSci but was transferred to these 1-year MA programs. I received 2 PhD offers from rank 40/50 schools and decided to decline in order to increase my chances of better placement in the next cycle for PhD. 

My field of interest is International Relations with geographic emphasis on East Asia (esp. China, Korean peninsula) - security studies.

So far I have a break-down of the pros/cons of each program:

Chicago CIR 

• PROS
  • Received $42k funding for tuition
  • POI: John Mearsheimer, Bruce Cumings, Dali Yang
  • Program admissions committee is highly responsive.. I appealed for additional fellowship and was granted 
  • MA Thesis that can be used for writing sample in next PhD app
  • Lower cost of living, esp. with fellowship
• CONS
  • Not too many faculty in IR - East Asia focused faculty mainly in history or CP
  • Not really a con, but I am told that UChicago (while very good rep in field) is not quite as high as Columbia

Columbia PS

• PROS
  • Ivy League institution, high rep in field (as I am told by grad students/profs/etc)
  • POI: Robert Jervis, Jack Snyder
  • NYC is preferred city for me personally 
  • Program is specifically Political Science
• CONS
  • NO fellowship.. tuition combined with cost of living/other student fees will be approx. $73k
  • to my understanding, NO required MA thesis
  • Higher cost of living than Chicago 

Granted, I did not visit Columbia as they are rolling admissions and do not have a specific Admit Day or similar event. I did attend CIR's Campus Day and was thoroughly impressed by the helpful preceptors, grad students, etc.

To be completely honest I am highly tempted by the name of Columbia but my ultimate goal is placement into a PhD program ranked top 20-25. Also, while my parents are helping me with grad school tuition, 73K is no joke compared to the fellowship I received from Chicago. 

If anyone has any advice for me, or if anyone has graduated from either of the programs please let me know, would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!!

 

[Bibica]

In your position, I would choose Chicago. The money thing is no joke, and not having an MA thesis would concern me. I think the most important thing you should ask yourself (outside of personal stuff like, "am I willing to spend $73k for a year-long program," which some people are more okay with than others) is: at the end of this year (or two), will I have three letter writers who have worked with me/gotten to know me/can attest to the quality of my work? I personally feel this is easier wen an MA thesis is involved, but it is also largely up to you.

I don't know any people pursuing MAs at these schools, but if you could get in touch with some of them and ask them whether the faculty makes time for them, that would probably aid your decision more than any advice we can give here, unfortunately.

[te0493]

12 hours ago, Bibica said:

In your position, I would choose Chicago. The money thing is no joke, and not having an MA thesis would concern me. I think the most important thing you should ask yourself (outside of personal stuff like, "am I willing to spend $73k for a year-long program," which some people are more okay with than others) is: at the end of this year (or two), will I have three letter writers who have worked with me/gotten to know me/can attest to the quality of my work? I personally feel this is easier wen an MA thesis is involved, but it is also largely up to you.

I don't know any people pursuing MAs at these schools, but if you could get in touch with some of them and ask them whether the faculty makes time for them, that would probably aid your decision more than any advice we can give here, unfortunately.

That's a good point that writing a thesis would most likely result in better recs. I am not 100% sure about the thesis part so will check with department when I visit next week. Thank you!

[dagnabbit]

17 hours ago, Bibica said:

I don't know any people pursuing MAs at these schools, but if you could get in touch with some of them and ask them whether the faculty makes time for them, that would probably aid your decision more than any advice we can give here, unfortunately.

I think that all of @Bibica's advice is very good, but I just want to emphasize the importance of this point. Chicago and Columbia both have a lot of PhD students, and the tenure-track/tenured faculty are likely spread thin between advising them, teaching, and conducting their own research; before you spend the money on one of these programs, make sure that you will be working (at least some of the time) with faculty that can write letters for you. Remember this, too: the value added from either of your current options will be the connections you make with faculty (resulting in rec letters) and the strengthening of your research abilities, not the name brand on your CV.

[guest56436]

Columbia's MA is set up in a way that it is completely divorced from the Ph.D. program. This means that you won't be taking doctoral level courses nor be working closely with the faculty.

I highly recommend to everyone to avoid this program, much less pay close to 100k    for it.

I know someone who did the CIR, worked with Mearshimer, then got into top 10/20 Ph.D. programs. Of course, YMMV but at least it is possible. 

[te0493]

4 hours ago, dagnabbit said:

I think that all of @Bibica's advice is very good, but I just want to emphasize the importance of this point. Chicago and Columbia both have a lot of PhD students, and the tenure-track/tenured faculty are likely spread thin between advising them, teaching, and conducting their own research; before you spend the money on one of these programs, make sure that you will be working (at least some of the time) with faculty that can write letters for you. Remember this, too: the value added from either of your current options will be the connections you make with faculty (resulting in rec letters) and the strengthening of your research abilities, not the name brand on your CV.

I am definitely leaning more towards Chicago in that regard, it seems like although PhD students will get first priority with everything, many core faculty members still do advise MA students. Thank you!

[te0493]

3 hours ago, Comparativist said:

Columbia's MA is set up in a way that it is completely divorced from the Ph.D. program. This means that you won't be taking doctoral level courses nor be working closely with the faculty.

I highly recommend to everyone to avoid this program, much less pay close to 100k    for it.

I know someone who did the CIR, worked with Mearshimer, then got into top 10/20 Ph.D. programs. Of course, YMMV but at least it is possible. 

Wow I did not know that it is completely separate. That is highly concerning.. Thank you for the info!

[Chuck Mangione]

I personally went to and graduated from the CIR program. If you have any questions regarding it, just let me know.

It was an incredibly fun time and the professors are always willing to help. The Chicago "where fun goes to die" sort of holds true, but you get used to it over time.

[te0493]

Thank you! I've decided to attend Chicago, really looking forward to it. 

[rajaat9]

From my year at CIR, I know offhand that two students placed into PhD programs at Ohio State (8th in the world in IR) and another into Harvard. I think someone got into Yale as well, and another got into GW. You made the right choice.

[WHC_2017]

I did MAPSS (like CIR) focusing on IPE. Definitely CIR, a no-brainer choice. 

[CambridgeHeismanLord]

On 4/17/2017 at 12:27 AM, te0493 said:

I am seeking advice for the Master's programs at University of Chicago CIR (Committee on International Relations) and at Columbia University (Political Science). I originally applied to the PhD programs in PoliSci but was transferred to these 1-year MA programs. I received 2 PhD offers from rank 40/50 schools and decided to decline in order to increase my chances of better placement in the next cycle for PhD. 

My field of interest is International Relations with geographic emphasis on East Asia (esp. China, Korean peninsula) - security studies.

So far I have a break-down of the pros/cons of each program:

Chicago CIR 

• PROS
  • Received $42k funding for tuition
  • POI: John Mearsheimer, Bruce Cumings, Dali Yang
  • Program admissions committee is highly responsive.. I appealed for additional fellowship and was granted 
  • MA Thesis that can be used for writing sample in next PhD app
  • Lower cost of living, esp. with fellowship
• CONS
  • Not too many faculty in IR - East Asia focused faculty mainly in history or CP
  • Not really a con, but I am told that UChicago (while very good rep in field) is not quite as high as Columbia

Columbia PS

• PROS
  • Ivy League institution, high rep in field (as I am told by grad students/profs/etc)
  • POI: Robert Jervis, Jack Snyder
  • NYC is preferred city for me personally 
  • Program is specifically Political Science
• CONS
  • NO fellowship.. tuition combined with cost of living/other student fees will be approx. $73k
  • to my understanding, NO required MA thesis
  • Higher cost of living than Chicago 

Granted, I did not visit Columbia as they are rolling admissions and do not have a specific Admit Day or similar event. I did attend CIR's Campus Day and was thoroughly impressed by the helpful preceptors, grad students, etc.

To be completely honest I am highly tempted by the name of Columbia but my ultimate goal is placement into a PhD program ranked top 20-25. Also, while my parents are helping me with grad school tuition, 73K is no joke compared to the fellowship I received from Chicago. 

If anyone has any advice for me, or if anyone has graduated from either of the programs please let me know, would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!!

 

I am a CIR graduate, so feel free to ask any questions. 

[WHC_2017]

2 hours ago, CambridgeHeismanLord said:

I am a CIR graduate, so feel free to ask any questions. 

I just graduated from MAPSS this year, so apparently we had some similar experience at Chicago. I  immensely appreciate and value what I have got out of  MAPSS--doctoral-level core seminars + an emphasis on methods training+ an amazing thesis adviser (Robert Gulotty). 

[uncle_socks]

@WHC_2017 and @CambridgeHeismanLord I'm not looking at CIR (more interested in MACRM or MAPSS so I can really gauge how much I want to pursue a PhD in PS), but I'm curious about how widespread good (I'm talking full tuition or maybe 3/4 or 2/3 tuition) funding is. Are the people that get funding the type of people that would get into a high-ranked PhD program anyways? Or is there a little more leniency? 

[purpleatheart1994]

Folks, I'm looking to apply for Fall 2019 at UChicago's CIR. Can students and alumni share the kinds of research interests they pursued at CIR? 

Is it beneficial to get in touch with professors before applying?