Language for a Victorianist?

[brontebitch]

Hi, everyone! Congratulations on all of the acceptances this round - I am so happy for all of you who had success and sending positive vibes to those who are trying to figure out next steps. 

I couldn't find this info anywhere on the thread, so apologies if I'm being redundant, but I have noticed some other questions about language training and am hoping to get an opinion on this. I speak Polish (intermediate) and Romanian (heritage speaker but I can't read or write), but these languages are not relevant to my area of interest (19th century British lit & women writers in this period). In my MA program at CU Boulder I need to pass a language exam in the language of my choosing, and I definitely want to do something that would be relevant to my area of interest. If I'm a Victorianist and primarily interested in women writers, does anyone have any recommendations for language? I'm not sure if I should study German since I have some interest in Marxist criticism, or if I should study Latin just to have a solid base if I go back to any EM texts (I could see myself doing that since I used to want to focus on EM and have a lot of experience in that time period). Another question: how relevant is the language you choose? Could I theoretically take the MA language exam in Polish, just because of my background and to get it out of the way quickly, without it hurting my chances of getting into a PhD program in a few years? I don't want to continue with a language that isn't relevant to me, but at the same time, not sure what language I should study instead. I am definitely open to studying Latin or German, I'm just not sure how helpful it would actually end up being. 

If you're a Victorianist or doing 18th/19th century Brit Lit, I would love to hear about your experience with language and what was recommended to you in either your MA or PhD program. I really don't see myself using lit or criticism using another language (at least at this point), so I'm just at a loss. 

Thanks in advance  

[Dr. Old Bill]

I'm no Victorianist, so take this with several grains of salt...but I suspect that you'll be able to justify using Polish for your language exam. While it does not have any direct relevance to your studies, as you say, very few languages actually will to your period, so far as I'm aware. Latin would be the logical choice as a catch-all, but if all of your intended studies are in English, and you're not dealing with anything that vaguely touches on other source languages, taking a language exam in Polish would seem to make the most sense.

 

[TerryHakase]

I'm a Victorianist as well, and my Victorian lit professor during undergrad stressed the importance of learning French, since you typically find it in many texts throughout the period. Since you're interested in women writers, Charlotte Bronte comes to mind as a writer who uses the language a lot. There are a few French parts in Jane Eyre, and Villette contains a very large amount. I'd definitely say French is the top choice, and German would probably be second. 

[brontebitch]

48 minutes ago, TerryHakase said:

I'm a Victorianist as well, and my Victorian lit professor during undergrad stressed the importance of learning French, since you typically find it in many texts throughout the period. Since you're interested in women writers, Charlotte Bronte comes to mind as a writer who uses the language a lot. There are a few French parts in Jane Eyre, and Villette contains a very large amount. I'd definitely say French is the top choice, and German would probably be second. 

That's a very good point on the French. I haven't read Villette in a while, but it does contain a lot of French. I did do two years of French in high school, so it wouldn't be the most difficult to pick up. Thank you for your input!!! 

[sgc001]

I'm going to throw in German as a suggestion. I don't know much about German fiction of the era, but I know that there was frequent and important exchange of ideas between England and Germany. And if you want to delve into the areas around the Victorian era for contextualization purposes, the German Romanticists set some precedents.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Victorianist.

[Glasperlenspieler]

What genre(s) do you work in? If it's the novel, that might be another reason to consider French. Given the richness of novelistic output in France during that period, it could be a useful area to have open to you for the sake of a comparative context. Russian could provide this as well but would probably be more difficult to learn. As much as it pains me to say it, German probably makes less sense if you're doing the Novel in this time period.

 

(Also not a Victorianist)

[Yanaka]

Having a French lit background, I feel all early modern, modern and early contemp. periods in France have interacted a lot with Britain historically and artistically (and I'm specifically referring to literature, of course). The other way around seems to work as well, even in the history of book publishing. So I'd vouch for French, too! With my very small experience of the matter.

[engphiledu]

As a Victorianist/19th century Americanist, I'll say that the languages which have most often been recommended have been French and German. I agree with what others have already said about possible connections with these languages, but here's another suggestion:

Speak with your potential committee members/DGS first. Some departments are more stringent about this requirement in that you have to create a thorough discussion of why you have chosen to pursue a particular language and justify its connection to your particular field of interest. Other departments are not as strict, and so they only emphasize that requirement for those who either 1) feel as though they will need to study primary sources or research in that other language or 2) have a sincere interest in learning the other language for their benefit. If your department is like the latter, and if you could learn another language but do not feel as though it is necessary to your academic pursuits, then you might go with a language with which you already have partial fluency. This will allow you to focus instead on your other research instead of spending as much time learning a new language or taking coursework.

So, for example, I have been considering learning French as my language (I only have basic training from high school). However, I have undergraduate training in Japanese, and although it has no connection to either of my fields, I not only feel as though it's likely that I'll expand my research into world literature eventually, but I am more likely to personally use the language (personal connections, travel, etc.). So, my plan is to explain my situation to the DGS and my committee, ask for their recommendations, and see if I can use Japanese as my language. It's not taking the easy way out or trying to avoid the work (especially since I'm willing to learn French if that's what they recommend), but I'm really considering my academic goals and how useful either language would be to me long-term. 

But, if you really think learning French or another language will be beneficial to your research in that you'll be doing some translations and need a working knowledge, then go for it! Again, I think the primary reason why this is still a requirement is because having that ability to work with primary documents in the original language is so pivotal in many different arenas and fields, but you also have to be realistic about your goals. Best of luck!!

[claritus]

I'm going to jump in and say that German is pretty huge in the period! You'll have a hard time avoiding Hegel and German Idealism, as evidenced by a text like Carlyle's Sartor Resartus. Likewise, if you have any interest in George Eliot you'll be hard pressed to avoid Feuerbach, since she translated much of his work into English. French is useful, of course, but I don't think it has nearly the same impact philosophically as German. Aside from Hegel and Feuerbach, we're talking Schiller, Kant, Goethe, Freud, Nietzsche... 

[brontebitch]

4 hours ago, claritus said:

I'm going to jump in and say that German is pretty huge in the period! You'll have a hard time avoiding Hegel and German Idealism, as evidenced by a text like Carlyle's Sartor Resartus. Likewise, if you have any interest in George Eliot you'll be hard pressed to avoid Feuerbach, since she translated much of his work into English. French is useful, of course, but I don't think it has nearly the same impact philosophically as German. Aside from Hegel and Feuerbach, we're talking Schiller, Kant, Goethe, Freud, Nietzsche... 

Yeah, the philosophers you mention are all of great interest to me. I have yet to consider them in my research, but I am also interested in Gothic lit and have studied some Freud, so I think German would actually be very helpful. I love George Eliot too! Thanks for your input!

[pippi]

This is conjecture on my part, but I would assume that for someone going into a graduate program in English, learning new languages is most useful when it allows you to work with material that's relevant to your project but not widely translated. So, for instance, I would assume that a few terms of university German would not substantially improve your understanding of Freud; you're probably better off working with a good translation. But, let's say you're interested in drawing on cultural sociology for your dissertation: reading knowledge of French will probably significantly expand the amount of secondary material available to you (+ open up opportunities for research travel and transatlantic exchange), since that is an active field in France (from what I understand) and much of the work hasn't been translated.

Edited April 18, 2017 by pippi

[Silabus]

I'll also pipe in here. I'm a Victorianist myself. I'm about to finish my MA and I'm going to Texas A&M's PhD program in the Fall.

So where I did my MA we have a foreign language requirement as well, however, the "foreign language department" is really a Spanish department. So pretty much everyone in the MA program learns to speak Spanish (appropriate considering we're in New Mexico). In my experience, I know no Victorianist who actually knows a second language or reads source material in its original language---so it might really be a moot point trying to learn a second language for the sake of research. However, I really wanted to learn Spanish anyway so I took the requirement as a chance to do what I'd always wanted to do. (And now I have a Spanish version of Don Quixote that I struggle with for fun.) So, I think if you really want to learn another language for the requirement just make it something you've always wanted to learn! Otherwise just try testing out.

Also, I might add that A&M also has a language requirement for the PhD. However, something they just started is that if you're interested in their Digital Humanities certificate then a language that is helpful to your research would be HTML and that goes toward the language requirement. Perhaps that's seen as a cop-out by some but I think it's a pretty good idea.

That's my two cents.

[brontebitch]

Thank you everyone for the feedback! I understand that the primary reason for a second language is to help with source material, but at the same time, I know many Victorianists who work with the translations and don't have any problems with this (like @Silabus mentions :)). I'll have to decide if I have the time and the need to review French or German; I'll most likely also consult with professors at my program. It's good to know that I do have options, though, especially since I have proficiency in some (although unhelpful) languages.

I would still love to hear from people if they have any experience or advice with this topic! 

[Yanaka]

5 minutes ago, natalielouise said:

Thank you everyone for the feedback! I understand that the primary reason for a second language is to help with source material, but at the same time, I know many Victorianists who work with the translations and don't have any problems with this (like @Silabus mentions :)). I'll have to decide if I have the time and the need to review French or German; I'll most likely also consult with professors at my program. It's good to know that I do have options, though, especially since I have proficiency in some (although unhelpful) languages.

I would still love to hear from people if they have any experience or advice with this topic! 

Do you already have a second language? Doesn't the PhD require you to have two to three languages min. and at least one of them being relevant to your research?

[brontebitch]

1 hour ago, Yanaka said:

Do you already have a second language? Doesn't the PhD require you to have two to three languages min. and at least one of them being relevant to your research?

Yes, you can go back to my original post to see that I already have languages, and the question is whether or not I should pursue another language more relevant to study or just stick with one of the languages I already have proficiency in. 

[Yanaka]

25 minutes ago, natalielouise said:

Yes, you can go back to my original post to see that I already have languages, and the question is whether or not I should pursue another language more relevant to study or just stick with one of the languages I already have proficiency in. 

I see. It still seems like you don't have a language that would help you with your applications, and your not intending to take any might be an issue for you? Are you sure Polish can't be helpful at all? Europe (continent) communicated at the time, and I know some censored French books had their readership in Northern/Eastern European countries. There might be some digging to do?

[jackdacjson]

On 4/18/2017 at 11:12 AM, pippi said:

This is conjecture on my part, but I would assume that for someone going into a graduate program in English, learning new languages is most useful when it allows you to work with material that's relevant to your project but not widely translated. So, for instance, I would assume that a few terms of university German would not substantially improve your understanding of Freud; you're probably better off working with a good translation. But, let's say you're interested in drawing on cultural sociology for your dissertation: reading knowledge of French will probably significantly expand the amount of secondary material available to you (+ open up opportunities for research travel and transatlantic exchange), since that is an active field in France (from what I understand) and much of the work hasn't been translated.

So, I mostly agree with what pippi wrote, especially the second half. Except, I wanted to point out that even basic reading comprehension can be useful to one's research and one's understanding of a foreign writer. While there's little no harm to reading Freud or Marx in translation (aside from the theoretical confounds involved), especially given that's how most of us do so, every now and again I think scholars end up investigating individuals sentences or word choices in the original German, to gain insight into a phrase or a claim that seems particularly striking or perplexing. Spending some time with a language, even if it's not that much time, may not allow one to read the German fluently or without aid, but it allows a greater degree of independence and discretion when going down such rabbit holes. That's how I am thinking of language requirements myself--as someone who doesn't particularly like working in foreign languages, and whose time period straddles the 19th and 20th centuries, I want to spend my time not pretending to have mastery over French or German or whathaveyou--because that's all it would be, pretend--but gaining some small nuggets of insight into other languages so I can be prepared when I see dialogue in French or when I want to see how, exactly, Freud worded a sentence. Some people, who are so inclined, might want more out of a language requirement, and intend perhaps to do more comparative work than I do or to work with untranslated texts. But I think there's something to be said for working primarily in English, and using one's familiarity with foreign grammars for insight and not for long term reading projects.

 

7 hours ago, Yanaka said:

I see. It still seems like you don't have a language that would help you with your applications, and your not intending to take any might be an issue for you?

I might have missed something, but I don't think OP is currently asking about acquiring a language for PhD applications (which would be difficult if they wanted to apply this fall, for instance), but instead is thinking of the language requirement for their MA. But anyway, I wanted to mention, on the off chance that it's relevant, that not every PhD application has a foreign language attached. While having one or two languages is a strength, people apply without a second language often enough. Moreover, OP can, at this point, demonstrate Polish and Romanian, each to some degree, which if they decide to apply for PhDs, should be enough to help their application along, at least showing a proclivity for languages, especially given their high school French. But when I applied to programs at least, I had no university-level language classes, and had a decent season, so lacking documentation proving language familiarity is not always a deathblow.

[brontebitch]

35 minutes ago, jackdacjson said:

 

I might have missed something, but I don't think OP is currently asking about acquiring a language for PhD applications (which would be difficult if they wanted to apply this fall, for instance), but instead is thinking of the language requirement for their MA. But anyway, I wanted to mention, on the off chance that it's relevant, that not every PhD application has a foreign language attached. While having one or two languages is a strength, people apply without a second language often enough. Moreover, OP can, at this point, demonstrate Polish and Romanian, each to some degree, which if they decide to apply for PhDs, should be enough to help their application along, at least showing a proclivity for languages, especially given their high school French. But when I applied to programs at least, I had no university-level language classes, and had a decent season, so lacking documentation proving language familiarity is not always a deathblow.

Yeah, I am absolutely just talking about the MA! I do want to get my PhD after the MA (I applied to programs this year but was only admitted to MAs), so it's on my mind now to pick a good language during my MA program so I am prepared for the PhD/have excellent applications for my next round. If I was just thinking about the MA, I would certainly just do Polish or Romanian (it would be a lot easier!), but since I am trying to think ahead, I want to choose a language that will be helpful for me in the future. Especially as it pertains to future graduate work, a dissertation, etc. 

I know of a few GCers who did not really have a pertinent language going into the PhD from MA or undergrad, so obviously it's not the most important thing, but I just want to be strategic.  Thanks @jackdacjson, and congratulations on your acceptances! 

[heliogabalus]

Polish since it was the native language of a major Victorian/Modernist writer. If Conrad wasn't influenced by Polish literature, it would at least be interesting to see how the Poles viewed him.

[brontebitch]

On 4/22/2017 at 5:24 AM, heliogabalus said:

Polish since it was the native language of a major Victorian/Modernist writer. If Conrad wasn't influenced by Polish literature, it would at least be interesting to see how the Poles viewed him.

LOL holy shit you're a genius. THANK YOU. I can't believe I didn't know this!