Out of field student - I want a PhD in psych but don't have any research experience.

[eggfish]

I wanted to be a psych major in college, but my parents convinced me that I should do speech-language pathology because if I majored in psych I would end up working for minimum wage my whole life.  Entry level for speech pathology is a Master's degree.  I got a bachelor's degree in the field, and now I'm in one of the field's top graduate schools.  We do 6 semesters in 2 years (fall, spring, summer, fall2, spring2, summer2).  I am in my first summer semester and have another year of school left after this until I earn my degree, and then I must practice under supervision for another year before I can become licensed and certified.

This field is all right.  I really enjoy my classes on a theoretical level, but when it comes to actually working with people on their speech and language, I dread it. I have disliked every clinical placement and always hope the next one is better, but it never is.  

Since speech-language pathology school is a professional degree, I have no research experience at all.  We have the option to do a Master's thesis, but with 15-17 credits each fall or spring semester, summer classes, TAships, and clinical placements, almost no one does a Thesis.  None out of 20 of us are doing one.  I think if I did one, I might go insane, especially since I'm not super interested in this field.  

I have been emailing professors in psychology to ask if I could volunteer in their labs.  Almost no one has gotten back to me yet, maybe because it's the summer, but I will keep trying.  The professor who did says her neuroscience lab is probably not a good fit for me. I tried emailing a professor who does cognitive research and examines language skills in children.  Even though I am no longer super interested in language acquisition, I probably would understand his research better, so I hope he gets back to me.  

 

Here are the titles of classes I have taken in psychology:

General Psych

Social Psych

Developmental Psych

Child Psych

Mind, Brain, and Behavior (an introduction to neuroscience)

Advances in Behavioral Neuroscience

Memory and Amnesia

Neuroanatomy and Physiology (through a speech-language pathology department, but very psych related)


I think I am interested in cognitive neuroscience research, but I'm not really sure because of my lack of experience. If it turns out I hate research, I am interested in becoming a clinical psychologist and am especially interested in working with survivors of sexual assault and domestic violence, PTSD, and depression.  I am also interested in working with children who are survivors of abuse and neglect.  

 

I have a few main thoughts/questions. Feel free to answer any or all of them.  

1.  So, I plan on finishing my Master's degree in speech-language pathology and becoming a licensed, fully certified, speech-language-pathologist.  If I neglected to do my supervised clinical fellowship year and failed to become certified, it would be very difficult to go back and do this in the future.  THEN I planned on trying to return to school for a PhD in psych.  Does this sound reasonable?  Or is it just sunk-cost fallacy?

 

2.  I have been using my free time to take classes in psych and neuroscience.  Is this the right or the wrong way to go about it? Should I instead be taking the bare minimum of classes and pick up a Master's Thesis in speech pathology instead? If I did that, at least I would have a publication when it came time to apply for a psych PhD program.  

 

3. Do Psych PhD programs often take out of field students with an out-of-field Master's degree?  What about students with minimal research experience?

 

4. Would I be able to become a clinical psychologist if I earned a Cognitive Psych or Cognitive Neuroscience PhD rather than a Clinical Psych PhD or PsyD? Would I still acquire the skills necessary to diagnose, treat, and counsel?

Edited June 6, 2017 by eggfish
typo

[Sherrinford]

I can't answer all your questions, but having quality research experience is absolutely a requirement for funded clinical psych PhD programs. If you just want to do therapy and work with clients, you could go for a PsyD but you would be likely taking out significant loans to be able to attend. If your end goal is practice, there could be cheaper and quicker routes (such as an MSW or other counseling degrees). 

A PhD is a research degree and that is what you'll be doing a lot of in a doctoral program. I would urge you to try to gain research experience not only because it will be beneficial when you apply to programs, but also just to see if it's work that you enjoy and can see yourself doing. 

[eggfish]

11 minutes ago, Sherrinford said:

I can't answer all your questions, but having quality research experience is absolutely a requirement for funded clinical psych PhD programs. If you just want to do therapy and work with clients, you could go for a PsyD but you would be likely taking out significant loans to be able to attend. If your end goal is practice, there could be cheaper and quicker routes (such as an MSW or other counseling degrees). 

A PhD is a research degree and that is what you'll be doing a lot of in a doctoral program. I would urge you to try to gain research experience not only because it will be beneficial when you apply to programs, but also just to see if it's work that you enjoy and can see yourself doing. 

Do you think I should quit taking electives and pull together a Master's Thesis in speech pathology during my last year? Or will volunteering in a lab be adequate?

[Sherrinford]

21 minutes ago, eggfish said:

Do you think I should quit taking electives and pull together a Master's Thesis in speech pathology during my last year? Or will volunteering in a lab be adequate?

I'm not really sure, it really depends on what your career goals are. I am not sure it would be worth it unless you want to pursue research in psychology that's relevant to speech pathology. On the other hand, a Master's thesis is a great way to demonstrate you can design, collect, and analyze data on a research project. 

It's hard to give you advice because you don't seem very certain about what specific goal to pursue. I was in a slightly similar situation when I finished my Bachelors (Psych), I was uncertain what kind of career I wanted. I pursued a Masters degree (Psych) and got involved in research and honed my specific interests before applying to doctoral programs. 

Clinical psychology doctoral programs are very, very competitive. You should do some research on your own and maybe looking through forum posts to get an idea of what the degree involves, the kind of work you can do, the average credentials of admitted applicants etc. Here's a starting point: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

[eggfish]

51 minutes ago, Sherrinford said:

I'm not really sure, it really depends on what your career goals are. I am not sure it would be worth it unless you want to pursue research in psychology that's relevant to speech pathology. On the other hand, a Master's thesis is a great way to demonstrate you can design, collect, and analyze data on a research project. 

It's hard to give you advice because you don't seem very certain about what specific goal to pursue. I was in a slightly similar situation when I finished my Bachelors (Psych), I was uncertain what kind of career I wanted. I pursued a Masters degree (Psych) and got involved in research and honed my specific interests before applying to doctoral programs. 

Clinical psychology doctoral programs are very, very competitive. You should do some research on your own and maybe looking through forum posts to get an idea of what the degree involves, the kind of work you can do, the average credentials of admitted applicants etc. Here's a starting point: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

Thanks, that pdf is very helpful.  A psych major I know told me if I got a PhD in neuroscience, I would be qualified to be a clinical psychologist.  According to that pdf, that is not true.  That gives me some direction.  I think I would rather go the counseling psychology route.  I think a counseling psychology degree would be sufficient for my interests in trauma, domestic abuse, sexual violence, etc.  and depression.  I am also interested in trauma and its effects on brain structures such as the frontal lobe and the hippocampus, but it's hard to narrow that interest down with my limited experience in research.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by eggfish

[eggfish]

12 hours ago, Sherrinford said:

I'm not really sure, it really depends on what your career goals are. I am not sure it would be worth it unless you want to pursue research in psychology that's relevant to speech pathology. On the other hand, a Master's thesis is a great way to demonstrate you can design, collect, and analyze data on a research project. 

It's hard to give you advice because you don't seem very certain about what specific goal to pursue. I was in a slightly similar situation when I finished my Bachelors (Psych), I was uncertain what kind of career I wanted. I pursued a Masters degree (Psych) and got involved in research and honed my specific interests before applying to doctoral programs. 

Clinical psychology doctoral programs are very, very competitive. You should do some research on your own and maybe looking through forum posts to get an idea of what the degree involves, the kind of work you can do, the average credentials of admitted applicants etc. Here's a starting point: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

Another question - I hear about English and Journalism majors getting PhDs in psych without a master's degree.  How?? If research experience in undergrad is necessary.  

[vallaboop]

14 hours ago, eggfish said:

I wanted to be a psych major in college, but my parents convinced me that I should do speech-language pathology because if I majored in psych I would end up working for minimum wage my whole life.  Entry level for speech pathology is a Master's degree.  I got a bachelor's degree in the field, and now I'm in one of the field's top graduate schools.  We do 6 semesters in 2 years (fall, spring, summer, fall2, spring2, summer2).  I am in my first summer semester and have another year of school left after this until I earn my degree, and then I must practice under supervision for another year before I can become licensed and certified.

This field is all right.  I really enjoy my classes on a theoretical level, but when it comes to actually working with people on their speech and language, I dread it. I have disliked every clinical placement and always hope the next one is better, but it never is.  

Since speech-language pathology school is a professional degree, I have no research experience at all.  We have the option to do a Master's thesis, but with 15-17 credits each fall or spring semester, summer classes, TAships, and clinical placements, almost no one does a Thesis.  None out of 20 of us are doing one.  I think if I did one, I might go insane, especially since I'm not super interested in this field.  

I have been emailing professors in psychology to ask if I could volunteer in their labs.  Almost no one has gotten back to me yet, maybe because it's the summer, but I will keep trying.  The professor who did says her neuroscience lab is probably not a good fit for me. I tried emailing a professor who does cognitive research and examines language skills in children.  Even though I am no longer super interested in language acquisition, I probably would understand his research better, so I hope he gets back to me.  

 

Here are the titles of classes I have taken in psychology:

General Psych

Social Psych

Developmental Psych

Child Psych

Mind, Brain, and Behavior (an introduction to neuroscience)

Advances in Behavioral Neuroscience

Memory and Amnesia

Neuroanatomy and Physiology (through a speech-language pathology department, but very psych related)


I think I am interested in cognitive neuroscience research, but I'm not really sure because of my lack of experience. If it turns out I hate research, I am interested in becoming a clinical psychologist and am especially interested in working with survivors of sexual assault and domestic violence, PTSD, and depression.  I am also interested in working with children who are survivors of abuse and neglect.  

 

I have a few main thoughts/questions. Feel free to answer any or all of them.  

1.  So, I plan on finishing my Master's degree in speech-language pathology and becoming a licensed, fully certified, speech-language-pathologist.  If I neglected to do my supervised clinical fellowship year and failed to become certified, it would be very difficult to go back and do this in the future.  THEN I planned on trying to return to school for a PhD in psych.  Does this sound reasonable?  Or is it just sunk-cost fallacy?

 

2.  I have been using my free time to take classes in psych and neuroscience.  Is this the right or the wrong way to go about it? Should I instead be taking the bare minimum of classes and pick up a Master's Thesis in speech pathology instead? If I did that, at least I would have a publication when it came time to apply for a psych PhD program.  

 

3. Do Psych PhD programs often take out of field students with an out-of-field Master's degree?  What about students with minimal research experience?

 

4. Would I be able to become a clinical psychologist if I earned a Cognitive Psych or Cognitive Neuroscience PhD rather than a Clinical Psych PhD or PsyD? Would I still acquire the skills necessary to diagnose, treat, and counsel?

1. I'm not entirely sure because I am not super familiar with this field. In my opinion it might be best to finish with when you are doing and then return to school for psych - just in case things don't work out in your favor

2. If your thesis could be related to psych or neuro in any way then it could be beneficial. Where have you been taking classes in psych and neuro? Are they graduate level? 

3. PhD programs do take students from a variety of fields, you may just be in a "probation" period of sorts. Research experience also depends on the specific program you are interested in. In most cases it is greatly beneficial to have at least some research experience. With that being said, you can make up for this deficit in other ways (excellent GRE scores, continuing to do well in your master's program and finishing your master's so show you can follow through, excellent LOR, etc.)

4. The path to becoming a clinical psychologist is very different than getting a PhD in cog psych or cog neuro. Those programs are research based and do not offer clinical training. In order to become a licensed psychologist you would need to have a PhD in clinical psych (or neuropsychology) or a PsyD. Those are the only programs that allow for sufficient training in areas of diagnosis, treatment and counselling. You can obtain those skills through masters level courses but it is not the same. I would say before you start applying you really need to narrow down your interests. One major factor in getting in a PhD program in this field is how your interests match with faculty, this is particularly important in research. Switching your career path will be difficult but if you are passionate and 100% sure that you want to switch then it is possible.

Good luck!

Edited June 7, 2017 by cindyboop

[eggfish]

7 hours ago, cindyboop said:

Where have you been taking classes in psych and neuro? Are they graduate level? 

 

Yes, I have been taking graduate level courses through the neuro program at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.  Even though I'm kicking myself for not choosing a program where the coursework is lighter and more emphasis is placed on research, at least I can take electives in other fields here (not super common for speech pathology schools).    

And now that I know that I couldn't be a clinical psychologist with a neuroscience degree, I am leaning more towards clinical psych or counseling psych. Clinical neuropsychology sounds interesting but I'm afraid it would be too much like my time doing cognitive therapy with stroke/TBI patients.  That's my first impression.  I'd have to look into it more.  

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by eggfish

[vallaboop]

15 hours ago, eggfish said:

Yes, I have been taking graduate level courses through the neuro program at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.  Even though I'm kicking myself for not choosing a program where the coursework is lighter and more emphasis is placed on research, at least I can take electives in other fields here (not super common for speech pathology schools).    

And now that I know that I couldn't be a clinical psychologist with a neuroscience degree, I am leaning more towards clinical psych or counseling psych. Clinical neuropsychology sounds interesting but I'm afraid it would be too much like my time doing cognitive therapy with stroke/TBI patients.  That's my first impression.  I'd have to look into it more.  

 

That's excellent, if you are doing well in those courses then that will help you out immensely. Continuing researching fields and see what programs interest you. Here is an easy way to find APA credited programs:

http://apps.apa.org/accredsearch/?_ga=2.118239437.575731150.1496921700-314806687.1485542017

Looking through these programs and what they offer might help you figure out what track works best for you.

[eggfish]

10 hours ago, cindyboop said:

That's excellent, if you are doing well in those courses then that will help you out immensely. Continuing researching fields and see what programs interest you. Here is an easy way to find APA credited programs:

http://apps.apa.org/accredsearch/?_ga=2.118239437.575731150.1496921700-314806687.1485542017

Looking through these programs and what they offer might help you figure out what track works best for you.

Thanks, that link is really helpful!

[Sherrinford]

On 6/7/2017 at 7:19 AM, eggfish said:

Another question - I hear about English and Journalism majors getting PhDs in psych without a master's degree.  How?? If research experience in undergrad is necessary.  

Clinical psych PhDs? I would imagine they still had a good deal of research experience that they obtained either during the bachelors or post-Bach. 

[vallaboop]

13 hours ago, eggfish said:

Thanks, that link is really helpful!

You're welcome! If you have any other questions I'm happy to help as best I can!

[eggfish]

16 hours ago, Sherrinford said:

Clinical psych PhDs? I would imagine they still had a good deal of research experience that they obtained either during the bachelors or post-Bach. 

Do you think a post-Bach might be a good idea for me?  Or maybe I should just try to volunteer in a lab for a little while (would be less than a year at this point) while taking pre-reqs (research design, statistics [I have taken statistics, but it was considered the "easy statistics" course], etc.)?

Edited June 9, 2017 by eggfish

[Le Chat]

If you decide to choose Counseling Psychology, it is not uncommon for programs to have students that studied something else in undergrad, however Counseling Psych really values Master's degrees in the field. 

It's more difficult to be accepted to Clinical or Counseling programs without either a Bachelor's or Master's in the field, unless you have a lot of psychological research experience. You will likely need statistics/psychological statistics, research courses, and maybe even qualm and quant as pre-reqs. 

 

Taking pre-reqs and starting on psychological research would be a good idea. You could also go a Psych research Master's and do the same. 

In order to become a licensed psychologist in the US you need to complete an APA approved program. You can complete a different psychology degree and do post-doctoral training, however. 

[eggfish]

18 hours ago, abnumber5 said:

If you decide to choose Counseling Psychology, it is not uncommon for programs to have students that studied something else in undergrad, however Counseling Psych really values Master's degrees in the field. 

It's more difficult to be accepted to Clinical or Counseling programs without either a Bachelor's or Master's in the field, unless you have a lot of psychological research experience. You will likely need statistics/psychological statistics, research courses, and maybe even qualm and quant as pre-reqs. 

 

Taking pre-reqs and starting on psychological research would be a good idea. You could also go a Psych research Master's and do the same. 

In order to become a licensed psychologist in the US you need to complete an APA approved program. You can complete a different psychology degree and do post-doctoral training, however. 

Thanks.  I have taken classes in study design and quant reasoning, but they are in speech and hearing science, not psych. I have been looking at classes I can take online  in psych research design specifically from other universities (Colorado State, UC Berkeley, and University of Missouri).  

 

Also, I signed up to take a class called Behavioral Neuroscience Lab next fall.  

I could either take that or Intro to Statistics for Psych.  I am thinking it would be better to take the lab since I could easily find a stats class online.  

 

Here is the lab course description:

"Introduction to the research techniques used in behavioral neuroscience: includes behavioral analysis of drug effects, anatomy of the brain, hormones and behavior, neural circuits and related topics. Students will have direct experience working with laboratory rats to understand their importance in the advancement of our knowledge about how the brain functions."

It doesn't sound like I would get as much in depth research experience as I would in an RA position, but at least it would give me an idea about what research is like.  

 

 

 

Also, my mom teaches at a university that offers a Master's in Clinical Mental Health Counseling.  She is getting a degree there for free, and I'm pretty sure I could go at a discounted rate... However, I'm not sure if that's the kind of degree I want.  It's a "practitioner model that fulfills the educational requirements for students to obtain counseling licensure in Illinois and Missouri"...implying it won't do much for me if I wanted to live somewhere else or do research.  

I'm not sure it would be a good stepping stone to a Counseling Psych PhD either. 

[Sherrinford]

On 6/9/2017 at 11:57 AM, eggfish said:

Do you think a post-Bach might be a good idea for me?  Or maybe I should just try to volunteer in a lab for a little while (would be less than a year at this point) while taking pre-reqs (research design, statistics [I have taken statistics, but it was considered the "easy statistics" course], etc.)?

It's tough to say. You have a lot of good questions and it's great that you're really thinking about your future. I think something that would help is to talk to some psychology professors at your university (which I'm sure you're aware is one of the top research schools in the country) and also talk to the admissions person to get their opinion on your situation. You could tell them your ultimate career goals and your current experience, and they could make suggestions on how you should proceed. 

Before committing or applying to any kind of program, you should use this time to explore what your specific career goals are, what routes are available, and whether you enjoy research or not.  

Another note, the majority of funded clinical psych doctoral programs (and many Counseling PhDs) will emphasize research (and thus having research experience is important for admittance). That is not to say that the clinical training you'd receive at such programs would be lacking or diminished in any way. I believe the statistic is that somewhere around 70% of people in clinical psych PhDs go on to do clinical work rather than pursue research careers. 

 

[eggfish]

On 6/10/2017 at 0:57 PM, Sherrinford said:

It's tough to say. You have a lot of good questions and it's great that you're really thinking about your future. I think something that would help is to talk to some psychology professors at your university (which I'm sure you're aware is one of the top research schools in the country) and also talk to the admissions person to get their opinion on your situation. You could tell them your ultimate career goals and your current experience, and they could make suggestions on how you should proceed. 

Before committing or applying to any kind of program, you should use this time to explore what your specific career goals are, what routes are available, and whether you enjoy research or not.  

Another note, the majority of funded clinical psych doctoral programs (and many Counseling PhDs) will emphasize research (and thus having research experience is important for admittance). That is not to say that the clinical training you'd receive at such programs would be lacking or diminished in any way. I believe the statistic is that somewhere around 70% of people in clinical psych PhDs go on to do clinical work rather than pursue research careers. 

 

I thought I responded to this, but I guess it didn't post.  Thanks for the helpful advice.  I have an appointment with a neuro professor next week, but that is also a good idea to talk to admissions.  

[phdcalling]

I got into a Counseling Psych PhD program with little to no research experience. I actually majored in English undegrad. However, I received my Master of Family Therapy degree so it is a closely related field. With that being said, it is possible to get into a program without research. It depends on your clinical experience level. Research is helpful and certainly is something that would open up a lot of doors, but if you can overcompensate the lack of research with a lot of clinical experience then you will be fine.

[eggfish]

On 6/15/2017 at 5:04 AM, phdcalling said:

I got into a Counseling Psych PhD program with little to no research experience. I actually majored in English undegrad. However, I received my Master of Family Therapy degree so it is a closely related field. With that being said, it is possible to get into a program without research. It depends on your clinical experience level. Research is helpful and certainly is something that would open up a lot of doors, but if you can overcompensate the lack of research with a lot of clinical experience then you will be fine.

I have a lot of clinical experience in speech-language pathology in diagnosing and treating speech, language, swallowing, and cognitive disorders.  I have no clinical experience in psych.  How can I get that without being in a psych program?

Also, do you find it extremely difficult to do research for your PhD when you didn't have experience with prior research projects?

[eggfish]

Okay, so I just had an interview for an unpaid RA position in a cognitive development lab.  I would be doing data entry, running tests, cleaning, entertaining children, etc.

Is this worth it just to get the feel for research even though I wouldn't be designing experiments or interpreting results?

I would only get to see the PI occasionally.  

[Ridegold6]

What ended up happening, eggfish? In a similar position.