File a complaint on an MS. thesis advisor?

[paulwece]

I got a professor who agreed to be my MS. thesis adviser (no funding). We agreed on a thesis topic. This summer, she left for abroad and before leaving we discussed thesis topic again, and I mentioned 3 possibilities. She did not object.

Later I sent her a proposal and she rejected it. This is something we've been discussing all along so it's kind of a surprise. She wanted me to work on another project for one of her PhD student. It's not in my interest area, nor expertise. I mentioned this and never got any response from her again, be it email, Slack, whatever. I had to have her PhD student get my words through to her somehow. 

It's not the end of the world for me. I can always go on a course only option and get my Masters, but that'll take one more semester. I guess I'm just really frustrated at her lack of care, total unprofessional-ism, and lack of communication. She's an assistant professor and is always away on trips, giving talks, etc...At this point I doubt I want to work with her anymore but I'm so angry at the unequal relationship and utter disrespect she's shown by totally ignoring me, even to small requests like setting up a short meeting when she comes back ( for closure, if anything).

I want to file a complaint on her. Will this affect her chance of getting tenure?

[Concordia]

Before you worry about that, you might want to think about the best way to achieve a positive result for your own degree.  

It sounds as if you are approaching Year 2 of a degree.  Is there a program director you can contact for guidance in the advisor's absence?  

Perhaps someone on the inside of this sort of situation can weigh in on the likely political ramifications.

[fuzzylogician]

From my experience things are very rarely as one-sided as you describe. I have no intention of helping you hurt someone's tenure case, so let me just mention a few things:

- "She did not object" -- this one reads so wrong to me. She didn't say "yes, go ahead and do one of these"? What did she say? In some other contexts, we would be having a conversation right now about the meaning of consent. 

- "This summer, she left for abroad" ... " "She's an assistant professor and is always away on trips, giving talks, etc..." -- what's the problem here? It's the summer. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that just like at most other universities, she's paid 9 months of the year, but not over the summer. Investing in her career at this time is crucial. It's very common for professors be to less accessible over the summer and to cut down on advising and service (and there's no teaching) because they are not paid to do that over the summer.

- "I mentioned this and never got any response from her again, be it email, Slack, whatever. I had to have her PhD student get my words through to her somehow." -- how long did you wait? Someone who is traveling might take a longer time to reply. See above about not getting paid to advise over the summer. Is this really as time-sensitive as you seem to think it is? Students I am working with, for example, understand that while they may work on proposals over the summer, I will be available to give more extensive feedback in the fall. 

- "Later I sent her a proposal and she rejected it. "" ... I'm so angry at the unequal relationship and utter disrespect she's shown by totally ignoring me..." --- first off, you should get this straight: the relationship is unequal. You are a trainee, not a peer. She is entirely within her rights to ask for changes to a proposal, including ones that may make you unhappy. As for the ignoring you part, see above. 

So my bottom line is this: you asked someone to advise you, and she took you on. You just started working on a proposal, not even agreeing on a topic yet. You wrote something up based on ideas you had that she had apparently not okayed and sent it to her. She read it and commented on it, but suggested a different topic. You objected in an email, which she hasn't responded to yet. Some unclear sequence of events transpired here, where you eventually had a PhD student contact her (we don't know how long you waited and if/how you followed up). Meanwhile, it's the summer, she is pre-tenure, traveling, and working on her case, most likely not even getting paid over the summer for advising-related activities. Now you want nothing more to do with her, and you're looking to harm her career. No, thank you.  

[TakeruK]

As others said here, I don't think you are in the right in this case. As a Masters (or even a PhD) student, you don't get to choose your research project and your advisor does not have to take your research ideas into consideration when assigning you work to do. Ultimately, it is your advisor's prerogative to assign you to work on whatever he or she wants you to work on, and it's your choice if you want to work for that advisor or not. Keep in mind that for the majority of students, because funding is tied to whatever projects have grants, I would say that the vast majority of students are working on projects that their advisors chose and designed, not the other way around.

if an advisor led you to believe that you would be working on X and then suddenly changed it to Y without a good reason, then that wouldn't be good behaviour. In your case, I don't see anything that should have caused you to believe that you get to decide your own project ("no objection" is not the same as "approval"). However, that's not necessarily something that is worthy of a complaint.

In addition, there are often lots of good reasons for an advisor to want their student to suddenly switch projects. For example, if a grant proposal didn't get funded, it might mean the advisor needs to pay you out of a different grant and therefore needs you to work on another project. In your case, there is no funding, so other valid reasons for switching may be: 1) priorities in the lab/research group changed due to internal or external pressures, so they need people to work on different things now, or 2) another student is more qualified to work in area X so that might mean some other students get switched to area Y. Just a few examples.

So, based on the details here, I'm just saying that what happened to you is normal and acceptable. I don't see any wrongdoing by the professor and I don't see any reason for you to complain. Of course, what you do is your own decision and you don't have to justify it here (e.g. maybe there are more things that you prefer to keep private). But if you are just checking in to see whether something unethical happened or not (this is a good idea since sometimes bad things happen but students just think it's "normal" so bad things continue to happen), I would say that this is a case where there might have been some miscommunication or misunderstanding, but nothing bad happened.

[cowgirlsdontcry]

3 hours ago, paulwece said:

I got a professor who agreed to be my MS. thesis adviser (no funding). We agreed on a thesis topic. This summer, she left for abroad and before leaving we discussed thesis topic again, and I mentioned 3 possibilities. She did not object.

Later I sent her a proposal and she rejected it. This is something we've been discussing all along so it's kind of a surprise. She wanted me to work on another project for one of her PhD student. It's not in my interest area, nor expertise. I mentioned this and never got any response from her again, be it email, Slack, whatever. I had to have her PhD student get my words through to her somehow. 

It's not the end of the world for me. I can always go on a course only option and get my Masters, but that'll take one more semester. I guess I'm just really frustrated at her lack of care, total unprofessional-ism, and lack of communication. She's an assistant professor and is always away on trips, giving talks, etc...At this point I doubt I want to work with her anymore but I'm so angry at the unequal relationship and utter disrespect she's shown by totally ignoring me, even to small requests like setting up a short meeting when she comes back ( for closure, if anything).

I want to file a complaint on her. Will this affect her chance of getting tenure?

You first say that you agreed on a thesis topic, then you say you mentioned three possibilities. Which is it? If you agreed on a topic, then pursued a different topic and submitted a proposal, I can see why it was rejected. You say "She wanted me to work on another project for one of her PhD student." Was that a suggestion for a thesis topic or did she just want you to work with the PhD student to develop ideas? I just finished my MA thesis in the spring semester just ended. A master's thesis proposal is due before the semester in which one writes the thesis begins. When is your proposal due? If it's not due until end of fall semester, with the writing of thesis in spring semester, you have a lot of time and have worked yourself into a tizzy over nothing. If you write in the fall, then you should have dealt with all of this in the spring, nailing down your topic and getting your proposal submitted and approved before she left. If you don't even have a topic, what about the huge amount of research and reading required before writing a thesis? When will you do that? I can tell you that writing an approximately 100 page document in one semester is enormous and if you expect to do the research, read and write it all in one semester, then you have another think coming. It's just not possible, to produce something of quality from start to finish in that period of time. Ideally, in my own little opinion, agreement of topic with advisor, research, read, proposal, write is the order one should pursue in developing a thesis. I started looking around at topics and doing preliminary research at the beginning of my master's. It took that whole school year to decide on a topic. At the end of May, 2016 I had decided on a topic and met with my advisor for lunch to discuss everything and get her ideas because she had already been there. In some ways, it seems you have procrastinated (don't we all?) and now expect a professor who does not work in the summer to be at your beck and call to fix this for you.

[lemondrop825]

I have to disagree with the other posters. I think you are in the right. You said you "agreed on a thesis topic." I do not think a student-advisor relationship is so one-sided that students cannot have a say in what she/he studies. Part of a thesis is that students learn how to formulate his/her questions and topics. If you are using your advisors grant money to fund your research that is one thing. But if you are not receiving any money or stipend for this, I do not think this is right. As someone who has completed a master's based thesis, the summer is a crucial time especially if you TA during the school year so I get that you are frustrated that your advisor is not around. I know that advisors have other responsibilities, but they need to balance this with supporting their students. If you can't come to an agreement, I have known several students who have switched advisors. It's been done before. Try to speak to the graduate advisor to mitigate this situation. 

[Eigen]

No one is saying they have to stay with the advisor. They're saying the advisor is totally within their rights to say "here's what I want you to work on if you want me to advise your thesis", or that it's OK for an advisor to reject a proposal even on a general topic that looked good if (a) funding streams have changed, or (b) the idea was interesting, but after reading a fleshed out proposal they no longer think it's good/feasible. Moreover, while the OP seems to not be receiving a stipend (direct funding), my guess is there's indirect funding coming in (office/lab space, computers, programs, etc), and that still dictates projects. 

Similarly, no advisor is "required" to supervise a thesis on a topic they don't want to. @lemondrop825 it seems like you're implying that the professor should "have" to supervise a topic just because it's what the students ants to work on? You also seem to be assuming they should be volunteering their time during the summer when they aren't paid (or contractually required) to be around. 

[cowgirlsdontcry]

8 minutes ago, lemondrop825 said:

I have to disagree with the other posters. I think you are in the right. You said you "agreed on a thesis topic." I do not think a student-advisor relationship is so one-sided that students cannot have a say in what she/he studies. Part of a thesis is that students learn how to formulate his/her questions and topics. If you are using your advisors grant money to fund your research that is one thing. But if you are not receiving any money or stipend for this, I do not think this is right. As someone who has completed a master's based thesis, the summer is a crucial time especially if you TA during the school year so I get that you are frustrated that your advisor is not around. I know that advisors have other responsibilities, but they need to balance this with supporting their students. If you can't come to an agreement, I have known several students who have switched advisors. It's been done before. Try to speak to the graduate advisor to mitigate this situation. 

Lemondrop, Paulwece first says that they agreed on a thesis topic, then writes that he "mentioned 3 possibilities."  As you know, having written a thesis, the topic must be nailed down and discussed in detail with the advisor before submitting a proposal. To simply narrow it to three possible choices is not enough, even though he has talked to the advisor about them. He also does not state what about the proposal was rejected. Was it the topic or was it more about how he was approaching the topic? Some of the things he states, he contradicts. He also does not clarify exactly why the advisor wanted him to work with her PhD student. Was it for guidance in research techniques, or ideas for topics? He doesn't say, just that he didn't want to work on that project for the reasons he gives.

As a TA I would get papers of undergrads to review and occasionally would get one that was so bad, there was no fixing it. I would tell the student they had to rewrite it. Of course, that didn't go over too well and invariably they would go to the professor and ask him to review the paper again, hoping to override what I had told them. Perhaps Paulwece doesn't want to deal with a PhD student. That happens. He can change advisors. That also happens, but it all depends on what his schedule for thesis looks like as to whether it's a good idea.

I think filing a complaint, is the last thing he should be doing, especially if he hopes to go on to a PhD program or even get a job and desires good LORs from some of the other professors in the department. I had a professor who was also a recommender, who gave everyone in a class an "I" because she couldn't open any of the submitted final projects. I freaked out because I was a GA/TA and an Incomplete for a reason beyond my control, would have caused me to lose funding. After that, she failed to submit any LORs for me. If I hadn't been on top of my applications, I might not have noticed, and quickly got someone else to submit the remainder of LORs.

[lemondrop825]

You are putting words into my mouth. OP said they AGREED on a topic and seems the advisor went back on their word. I didn't say the advisor is required to advise a student on a project they don't want to advise (but it sounds like they AGREED on a topic before taking them on). But at the same time, an advisor can't dictate what a student's project is. An IMPORTANT part of training grad students is allowing them to develop their own questions. Dictating projects to students is a sign of a bad advisor. OP did not say whether they are using the advisor's grant money or not.  If that is the case the student is not a student, but an employee. All we have is the OPs version of the relationship. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, we have no idea what the advisor's contractual work obligations are. Regardless, if an assistant professor takes a student on they should support the student. It is part of their duties to run a successful research program and that includes supporting students. I have no idea how an assistant professor expects to make tenure if they do not want to work over the summer.

[Eigen]

16 minutes ago, lemondrop825 said:

You are putting words into my mouth. OP said they AGREED on a topic and seems the advisor went back on their word. I didn't say the advisor is required to advise a student on a project they don't want to advise (but it sounds like they AGREED on a topic before taking them on). But at the same time, an advisor can't dictate what a student's project is. An IMPORTANT part of training grad students is allowing them to develop their own questions. Dictating projects to students is a sign of a bad advisor. OP did not say whether they are using the advisor's grant money or not.  If that is the case the student is not a student, but an employee. All we have is the OPs version of the relationship. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, we have no idea what the advisor's contractual work obligations are. Regardless, if an assistant professor takes a student on they should support the student. It is part of their duties to run a successful research program and that includes supporting students. I have no idea how an assistant professor expects to make tenure if they do not want to work over the summer.

For someone who has never advised students, and has never been tenure track, you seem to have an awful lot of opinions about both. 

We can't be sure what the advisor's contract says, but I'm assuming it's the same as the vast, vast majority of other academic contracts in the US as a starting point. And those are 9 month contracts, with the summer being "off". That doesn't mean most of us don't work the summer to push our research forward, but what it does mean is that other professional obligations (i.e., advising, teaching, committees) are supposed to be suspended, or something we do on a volunteer basis as needed. 

Especially for an MS student who doesn't want to work on projects that are beneficial to them, I can certainly see a pre-tenure professor pushing off responding over the summer, because it's not work that will advance their research agenda or help them professionally. It's part of their 9-month professional obligation (advising), and they're under no requirement to respond at all over the summer, and certainly not on what might be considered a "timely" basis. 

As to putting words in your mouth, you said this:

1 hour ago, lemondrop825 said:

I do not think a student-advisor relationship is so one-sided that students cannot have a say in what she/he studies. Part of a thesis is that students learn how to formulate his/her questions and topics.

This seems to indicate that you think the advisor should have to go along with what the students wants to study. The OP says they "agreed", but then goes on to clarify it as "they didn't object to 3 different topics I mentioned, but nixed my proposal when I sent it to them". This doesn't sound like an agreement to me. If I recall, you're in ecology, which is one of the very few STEM disciplines where the student is predominately driving the research. The OP is not in ecology, but rather in ECE, which doesn't follow the same conventions. It seems like you're pushing your experience in a single discipline onto all advisors and all graduate students, which isn't necessarily a good thing. 

That said, your post was unclear, which is why I said "you seem to be implying", rather than "you said", and asked you a question. That's far from "putting words in your mouth". 

[lemondrop825]

39 minutes ago, cowgirlsdontcry said:

Lemondrop, Paulwece first says that they agreed on a thesis topic, then writes that he "mentioned 3 possibilities."  As you know, having written a thesis, the topic must be nailed down and discussed in detail with the advisor before submitting a proposal. To simply narrow it to three possible choices is not enough, even though he has talked to the advisor about them. He also does not state what about the proposal was rejected. Was it the topic or was it more about how he was approaching the topic? Some of the things he states, he contradicts. He also does not clarify exactly why the advisor wanted him to work with her PhD student. Was it for guidance in research techniques, or ideas for topics? He doesn't say, just that he didn't want to work on that project for the reasons he gives.

It's unclear at what stages OP is in in his master's program. We do not know if the proposal OP sent is a final proposal. We do not know if this program requires formal proposals. Not all master's programs work the same way and some advisors treat proposals more flexibly than others. It could just be an informal proposal as part of discussions to settle on a more exact topic/questions.

 

43 minutes ago, cowgirlsdontcry said:

As a TA I would get papers of undergrads to review and occasionally would get one that was so bad, there was no fixing it. I would tell the student they had to rewrite it. Of course, that didn't go over too well and invariably they would go to the professor and ask him to review the paper again, hoping to override what I had told them. Perhaps Paulwece doesn't want to deal with a PhD student. That happens. He can change advisors. That also happens, but it all depends on what his schedule for thesis looks like as to whether it's a good idea.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything in this discussion. It's pretty clear he does not want to work with the PhD because that research is not related to the type of research he wants to do. I didn't recommend OP send a formal complaint. I didn't know grad students could even do this. In some programs students are encouraged to talk with grad program advisors if they have disagreements with their advisors to help mitigate the situation. Obviously this comes with risks, but OP will have to decide if this is worth it. This is not the same as sending a formal complaint.

[Eigen]

5 minutes ago, lemondrop825 said:

It's unclear at what stages OP is in in his master's program. We do not know if the proposal OP sent is a final proposal. We do not know if this program requires formal proposals. Not all master's programs work the same way and some advisors treat proposals more flexibly than others. It could just be an informal proposal as part of discussions to settle on a more exact topic/questions.

That part is actually pretty clear, especially if you take a quick look at the posting history for context. They started Fall 2016 in what should be a two-year MS program in ECE. That puts this summer as the summer of their first year. 

Not saying either of you are right or wrong about proposal expectations, just pointing out where they are in their program to add to the discussion.

[fuzzylogician]

From the fact that the OP is working on their thesis proposal right now, it seems very clear that there isn't a finalized topic yet. I assume that what happened is that the prof agreed to serve as advisor on a general topic X, but there were still details left to be worked about concerning the precise research question within X that OP was going to work on (hence, "I mentioned 3 possibilities"). At this point, there is some guesswork that we've been doing because of missing details, but a general workflow would involve OP writing a proposal draft and receiving comments, revising based on aforementioned comments, rinse and repeat as often as necessary. OP doesn't discuss making revisions, so instead here they simply decided they didn't like the comments they received and felt that they steered them in a direction they didn't want to go. So far, so good, that happens. Now one of two things can happen. Either the two sides can come to an understanding and choose a topic that the advisor feels comfortable advising and the student is interested in, or the student can find another advisor who will agree to advise the project the student envisions. A professor is *not* obligated to advise just any topic a student wants to work on, even if there was an earlier expression of agreement to work with the student (advising means sometimes telling hard truths like "I don't think this is a productive avenue for research" or simply "I don't feel comfortable advising this topic" or "we don't seem like a good personality match"). Fields also vary widely in how much freedom students have in picking an independent topic, and I believe that OP is in a field with less freedom. So the bottom line is that either the OP can work their proposal into something the advisor supports, or they can move on. They seem to prefer the latter, which is fine, but from there to going after the professor and trying to damage her career there is a great (and unjustified) distance. 

@Eigen already covered everything I have to say about your opinions concerning what professor do and do not owe students, @lemondrop825. As someone who doesn't seem to have any experience with this, you have some very strong opinions. It might do you good to listen to posters here who actually work as professors and do advising work for their perspective on summer work. 

[lemondrop825]

where does it say the student is in ECE. I have to disagree. I think there are many STEM programs where students are encouraged to drive their own research. If you would like to show me the data please do so.

"I do not think a student-advisor relationship is so one-sided that students cannot have a say in what she/he studies. Part of a thesis is that students learn how to formulate his/her questions and topics."

I no idea how this indicates that I think an advisor has to go along with whatever. What I'm saying is that the thesis topic should be a MUTUAL discussion.

[fuzzylogician]

3 minutes ago, lemondrop825 said:

where does it say the student is in ECE.

See here, for example. Some of us who have been on this site longer have actually helped OP with other questions in the past and remember their story. 

 

[lemondrop825]

I have talked to many professors who would have the same opinion as mine. The gradcafe is not the only place for opinions. Obviously, OP is giving his/her perspective. She/he may be exaggerating. However, bad advisors are not unheard of.

[cowgirlsdontcry]

17 minutes ago, lemondrop825 said:

I have no idea what this has to do with anything in this discussion. It's pretty clear he does not want to work with the PhD because that research is not related to the type of research he wants to do. I didn't recommend OP send a formal complaint. I didn't know grad students could even do this. In some programs students are encouraged to talk with grad program advisors if they have disagreements with their advisors to help mitigate the situation. Obviously this comes with risks, but OP will have to decide if this is worth it. This is not the same as sending a formal complaint.

It's relevant because students (even master's students) have issues with working under another student. He simply says it's not his area of interest or expertise without elaborating why the professor wanted him to work on the project for one of her PhD students, which seems to indicate he may have issues more than what he states with the whole thing. He also seems at odds with having to get the PhD student to get "his words" through to the professor. Looking at the other post he made, it seems that he took on this internship for the summer. If that is the case, then he is obligated to work on the project that the professor requested and is extraneous from his thesis proposal.

I did not say that you implied he should file a complaint. He discusses wanting to file a complaint and obviously stop the professor from getting tenure, which also suggests an immaturity with regard to this whole thing because it's so vindictive.

Edited July 3, 2017 by cowgirlsdontcry

[fuzzylogician]

4 minutes ago, lemondrop825 said:

However, bad advisors are not unheard of.

Now who's fighting straw men? We are trying to explain to you what things look like from the other side, and to provide some rationale for the professor's behavior. No one here (or anywhere, for that matter) claimed that there are no bad advisors. But in this particular case, we can easily see an explanation for the sequence of events the OP describes that doesn't involve malice, incompetence, or really any wrong-doing on the prof's end. I don't think this conversation is helping the OP at this point, so for me, at least, this is the last reply on this topic. 

[paulwece]

First, of all, it's a Masters thesis, not a Phd thesis. Most Masters thesis in our department are around 10 pages, much like a paper.

We did agree on a topic early in the spring (Project A..), and I took her class. She mentioned I can work on that project for the class and then my thesis would be half finished. Problem is, she teamed me up with a group and one group member wanted to work on a different project (Project B..) She told me I can do Project B also, and shouldn't feel obligated that I have to do project A. 

At the end of the semester, before she left, we had a meeting. I mentioned the possibility of doing project A or B as my thesis, she did not object. She also mentioned another project (C). Later I sent a proposal on A, she said no. She said C is better. I have no interest in C. I asked why A isn't okay anymore, got no reply. I then proposed B, still no reply. Asked for a short meeting when she's back (this week), still no reply.

Look, at this point I don't care if I end up not writing a thesis, and just get the course only degree. 

 

My only issue is her not replying. That's completely rude. She could tell me something like "hey, I don't feel we are a right fit" or "I can't agree to anything unless...blah blah blah" or whatever and I'd still appreciate that. But for me to propose all those and ask her questions and not get a response is rude beyond belief. It's basically saying "5 minutes of my time is more important than your summer." That's what I want to file a complaint for, not whether she changed her mind on the thesis or whatever. Even on Slack, she never responds to me. The fact that I had to have one of her Phd student send her a message basically tells me she can't communicate and is completely poor in character. I understand Phd students get higher priority but seriously? How about some basic human decency?

At this point, even if she agrees to my original topic, I don't think I want to work with her anymore. I've talked to my grad adviser and I already registered for couple of courses next semester. I'm outta here this year no matter what. But her not replying brings no closure to this. It's like breaking up with someone by just ignoring them and hoping they get the hint. I feel the department should know that because that's bad for future students. 

I have not done anything except sending proposals, asking questions, trying to set up a phone call/meeting, all weeks apart, and got nada. That's what pisses me off.

Edited July 3, 2017 by paulwece

[Concordia]

From her point of view, it is probably "I mentioned that I probably needed C to get done, and he had no objection.  Now I'm getting this crap?" 

[cowgirlsdontcry]

Thank you for elaborating Paulwece.

Ten pages is not very much for a master's thesis. My advisor told me when she agreed to take me on, that she wouldn't accept less than 60 pages and no more than 120 pages. In my area, PhD dissertations run around 300+/- pages..

I don't believe it's unusual for professors who are off in the summer and "abroad" to not correspond. As she is back this week, when there are still 6 weeks before fall semester beginning, I'm sure she will be contacting you to discuss this more in depth, rather than sending emails back and forth.

Edited July 3, 2017 by cowgirlsdontcry

[fuzzylogician]

Frankly, if the whole thing is 10 pages and you just want to be done, the best course of action is to suck it up and do what you're asked. Shouldn't take that long, and if you don't throw a tantrum she might still take you on and let you finish faster. 

This, though, points to what is probably a failure in communication:

20 minutes ago, paulwece said:

I mentioned the possibility of doing project A or B as my thesis, she did not object. She also mentioned another project (C). Later I sent a proposal on A, she said no. She said C is better. I have no interest in C. I asked why A isn't okay anymore, got no reply. I then proposed B, still no reply. Asked for a short meeting when she's back (this week), still no reply.

Look, at this point I don't care if I end up not writing a thesis, and just get the course only degree. 

It seems to me that what she thought happened is that you brought up A and B, and she told you to do C instead. You, however, thought A and B were still on the table. You wrote a proposal for A. She said, please do C. You then wrote a proposal for B. So now I don't know why she hasn't responded to your emails, but from her perspective she might think she's dealing with a problem student who isn't responding to advice and is also being demanding at the same time. It sounds like you have two choices: you can do C and finish more quickly, even if it's less interesting to you (provided you don't blow this with inappropriate behavior toward her), or you can take more classes and drop the thesis option, even though it will take you longer. That's up to you. If you want to complain to someone, feel free, but I don't think you have grounds for a complaint here, based on the details you've given so far. And I think that going out of your way to hurt her tenure case is just wrong. 

[paulwece]

28 minutes ago, fuzzylogician said:

Frankly, if the whole thing is 10 pages and you just want to be done, the best course of action is to suck it up and do what you're asked. Shouldn't take that long, and if you don't throw a tantrum she might still take you on and let you finish faster. 

This, though, points to what is probably a failure in communication:

It seems to me that what she thought happened is that you brought up A and B, and she told you to do C instead. You, however, thought A and B were still on the table. You wrote a proposal for A. She said, please do C. You then wrote a proposal for B. So now I don't know why she hasn't responded to your emails, but from her perspective she might think she's dealing with a problem student who isn't responding to advice and is also being demanding at the same time. It sounds like you have two choices: you can do C and finish more quickly, even if it's less interesting to you (provided you don't blow this with inappropriate behavior toward her), or you can take more classes and drop the thesis option, even though it will take you longer. That's up to you. If you want to complain to someone, feel free, but I don't think you have grounds for a complaint here, based on the details you've given so far. And I think that going out of your way to hurt her tenure case is just wrong. 

1. I have not thrown a tantrum to her directly. I've been very respectful to her so far. (why is everyone here so biased toward the professors and automatically assume things?)

2. Even though it's only 10 pages, it's highly compressed and is not to be taken lightly. She wants it to have a chance of getting published. Project C is outside my interest area, is something I need to start from scratch, requires carrying out an experiment that's outside my experience, and very likely to not get decent results. There is too much of a risk of all efforts for nothing. I told her that. 

3. Yes, there is a failure in communication, due to her not replying my emails. A simple "you can only do C because I won't sign off on A or B" would suffice and make my decision making easier, and bring closure. I understand professors have the right to determine what they want you to work on. 

4. I cannot hurt her tenure. Only the department can. If only students have that kind of power... The fact that I brought it up here to get some other opinions means that I don't want to take that route. But I do feel mistreated and I need to vent.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by paulwece

[fuzzylogician]

27 minutes ago, paulwece said:

1. I have not thrown a tantrum to her directly. I've been very respectful to her so far. (why is everyone here so biased toward the professors and automatically assume things?)

2. Even though it's only 10 pages, it's highly compressed and is not to be taken lightly. She wants it to have a chance of getting published. Project C is outside my interest area, is something I need to start from scratch, requires carrying out an experiment that's very time consuming, and very likely to not get decent results. There is too much of a risk of all efforts for nothing. Since I'm not going for a PhD and she did not fund me, no way would I do that and risk not graduating on time. I need to know before Fall starts whether she'll sign off on my thesis otherwise I will take courses. Project A and B will give me a chance of achieving that in the time frame, C will not.

3. Yes, there is a failure in communication, due to her not replying my emails. A simple "you can only do C because I won't sign off on A or B" would suffice and make my decision making easier, and bring closure.

4. I cannot hurt her tenure. Only the department can. If only students have that kind of power... The fact that I brought it up here to get some other opinions means that I don't want to take that route. But I do feel mistreated and I need to vent.

 

1. I wasn't assuming otherwise, just suggesting you keep this up.

1'. I (and a couple others) are trying to show you what the situation might look like from the professor's side, since you presented a fairly one-sided story. It may be hard for you to see the other side, and that's fair, but those of us with a bit more experience are trying to put it in perspective. You can take that as "taking her side" or simply providing context.

2. Her wanting to pick a publishable project is inconsistent with what you describe about project C, so I'm not sure what to make of this. Sounds like it'll be more work than you want to put in, though. That's fair, if that's what you decide, but she is within her rights to require a certain amount of work for what would count as a thesis she will pass. 

3. No, the failure in communication started much earlier than this, that's my point above. She might easily think that she's already communicated that a couple of times and you're not understanding. But that's just a guess, since we don't have access to the correspondence and we weren't in the room when you had the conversation.

4. You are the one who brought up her tenure case with relation to a complaint. Of course you directly can't deny her tenure, but you have to know that negative complaints can't help her. Possible effects would obviously therefore range from "negligible" to "bad", but nothing good will happen. Venting is fine, but you should calm down before you make any further decisions. Even if you do decide a complaint is warranted, do it from a calm place.

[PokePsych]

It does seem she has a very strong preference for C and even if you end up doing A or B she may not be as committed as you want her to be. I'd say have a chat when she gets back, be upfront but professional about it (why not A, maybe we have some different expectations), and then decide later on what you'd like to do. 

Somehow this sounds like my former supervisor, the horror. I do a MPhil and we have the last semester to run the proejct (but usually start earlier). Approached Supervisor X in october with a specific topic and RQ (lets call it project A). He said that was great. Supervisor X then asked me the next month wheterh I wanted to be INVOLVED with project B - as I could learn some new skills and was interested in SOME parts of it, that was OK. Confirmed still wanted to do A as thesis, not B. Two months in project B he wanted me to make that my thesis. I declined and reminded him of the former agreement which he was still OK with. I send him proposal for project A in early spring (like 2 weeks after that) that we agreed on - and he agreed to supervise on after I rejected the idea of doing B as my thesis. He ignore dme for 2 months - send him a number of reminders. Nobody could get a hold of him. Then finally got a message that theres only 24 hours a day and he's too busy - it was written very unprofessionally as well. Like WHUT. Filed an official complaint, there's a 3 day reply policy for a reason  (and yeah well even 2 weeks I would have been OK with)  - then don't take students or AT LEAST dont let me hanging for 2 months - it takes 10 seconds to email this! I'm not angry he doesn't want me to supervise, but just that he could have told me that wayyyy earlier. I think this is also  what OP is struggling with. Department then tried to force him in supervising me. But I had no trust in this anymore and especially the timeframe. 

Ended up doing a follow-up/extension of my supervisor from last year which is completely my own project, so I learn a lot and ahve a great professional and personal relationship with this prof (he's basically my mentor anyway - and also moving to another uni as half the department did as they're all fed up with this type of shit that is currently happening also to them) - but will not graduate on time coz of this supervisor x's crap. Thank god I at least did not spend anything of my assigned research budget yet, as he wanted to use it for B and would then cover A for me... Now need to pay another semester's tuition, can't find a 'real' job, etc. THANKS DUDE. Like this has big consequences for me.

 

With regard to the comment she may not work over summer - she could communicate that. This also varies per supervisor how they approach this. Sure professros are busy and I try to contact mine not more than once every 2 weeks over summer and have a biweekly meeting usually. Also am fine if it takes 3 weeks to reply over summer really, I understand but it's because this supervisor TOLD me that he will be travelling a lot and will do his best to help whenever he can over summer. So I at least know what is going on. However, we as students also need to know what we're up to. I can't wait around 3 months not knowing what my plans will be or how things will work out for the next semester. If I need to take extra classes I may or may not be able to take on an internship that I want to do, etc. If I can't graduate on time like now I need to make arrangements for housing, parttime work, etc. If OP's supervisor is not sure she wants to supervise project A or B or whatever - communicate and tell what is going on. Even a simple e-mail like Dear OP, I think there may be some misunderstanding. At this point in time I"m only able to supervise C due to external reasons (or whatever). Or even At this point in time I prefer to supervise C and am not sure if I am able to supervise A/B. At least OP then knows what he's up to. However, OP could also have asked for this clarification earlier - especially since she already mentioned do C (then why write B?). Also take in consideration possible cultural differences in communication style that may or may not apply. 

And although you indeed you don't always get to choose your project - you don't always have to do what others want either. In the end you want to do something you're passionate about too. Hence, the reason I also changed supervisors - I didn't ever want to do B (it's a social neuroscience project - although I'm interested in the topic I have aboslutely no interest in learnign how to analyze fMRI data and so on). I ended up with C and i'm very happy with it - I just wish I would have been able to start 3 months earlier... of which 2 months were a total unnecessary delay.