EALC 2018

[mxiongturquoise]

21 hours ago, costevens said:

Thanks, @mxiongturquoise! Ronald Egan is an incredible scholar, and I would love to work with him! And I love the 對聯 as well! What programs did you apply to?? My friend, who just did their MA at Columbia, has been rejected to 4/5 programs. I thought the whole point of going to a top program was to make the transition into a good PhD easier... I'm 有点儿糊涂 right now ... Apparently getting rejected the first time applying to PhD programs is a common occurrence, though. That really stinks! 

It's my second time applying to PhD programs lol; last year I was on the waitlist of UC Irvine's comp lit program and received offers from UChicago and Oxford.  I do think a prestigious MA program is in many ways conducive to a more successful Ph.D. applications, but so many factors come into play...

Please let us know where you'll embark on the next academic journey! 

[Naito]

@mxiongturquoise Chicago and Oxford are both great programs! Is there a particular PhD program that you really want to get into or something?

[mxiongturquoise]

8 minutes ago, Naito said:

@mxiongturquoise Chicago and Oxford are both great programs! Is there a particular PhD program that you really want to get into or something?

Sorry I wasn't clear in my last message:  the offers I received from these two schools last year were MAs.

Definitely the UChicago comp lit!  Such a bummer that my adviser is gonna be on leave next year, which was one of the reasons that I was not on the shortlist.  The comp lit programs at Northwestern and Cornell are also great for my research directions. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by mxiongturquoise

[Naito]

@mxiongturquoise I hope you get accepted this year to your top PhD programs!  

[mxiongturquoise]

4 minutes ago, Naito said:

@mxiongturquoise I hope you get accepted this year to your top PhD programs!  

Thank you, Naito!  Although most of the remaining seven schools are in "implied rejection" status now, I'll keep waiting...

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

22 hours ago, abcdefghijklmno said:

@AnUglyBoringNerd Congrats!!! Guess you will be deciding between Chicago and Columbia? Or you're already leaning towards Columbia?

 

Happy Lunar New Year to all!!!

I will be deciding between Chicago, Columbia and UToronto but am very strongly leaning towards Columbia. It's also about the small things that are difficult to describe.

 

[niohesektu]

Hi there. I've been following this thread for months but this is my first time reply. I mostly applied for PhD programs in the history departments but I also applied for the HEAL program at Harvard. I was told to have been wait listed by HEAL and I am wondering what is the possibility of getting off the list? I should have posted the result but somehow there is some problem with my internet that I couldn't do so.

[thesiswillbegreat]

On 2018/2/14 at 8:04 AM, Jules4663 said:

Research interests are early medieval (兩晉南北朝) political history (though I also like the poets and prose writers from the period too).

No other offers so far (also applied to Penn and Princeton).

 

@Jules4663 Hi i'm from the Admit Day thread, also admitted to Harvard PhD program. My research interest is the political history of Middle-period China, seems that we are really close. Nice to meet you!

[Naito]

11 hours ago, AnUglyBoringNerd said:

I will be deciding between Chicago, Columbia and UToronto but am very strongly leaning towards Columbia. It's also about the small things that are difficult to describe.

 

@AnUglyBoringNerd If you get into Princeton, please, please go to Princeton.  Or will you still go to Columbia?! 

[Naito]

9 hours ago, niohesektu said:

Hi there. I've been following this thread for months but this is my first time reply. I mostly applied for PhD programs in the history departments but I also applied for the HEAL program at Harvard. I was told to have been wait listed by HEAL and I am wondering what is the possibility of getting off the list? I should have posted the result but somehow there is some problem with my internet that I couldn't do so.

@niohesektu Welcome to the forum! It's a good sign that you got waitlisted. From what I heard, some professors just don't want to take too many students in any given year. You should reiterate your strong interest to do research with your POI in a LOCI (letter of continued interest) and hope that someone will decline their Harvard PhD offer.

If things don't work out this year, you might have better luck next year. I have a friend who was waitlisted at another PhD program at Duke the first year, and then re-applied and got accepted to the same Duke PhD the second year, so don't lose heart! Fingers crossed for you, and best of luck!  

Edited February 17, 2018 by Naito

[mxiongturquoise]

13 hours ago, AnUglyBoringNerd said:

I will be deciding between Chicago, Columbia and UToronto but am very strongly leaning towards Columbia. It's also about the small things that are difficult to describe.

 

May I ask who your POI would be if you were to come to Chicago?  My friend takes several classes in the history department, so I've heard some reviews/commentary about a few Chinese/Japanese history professors. 

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

10 hours ago, Naito said:

@AnUglyBoringNerd If you get into Princeton, please, please go to Princeton.  Or will you still go to Columbia?! 

 Honestly, I am only waiting for my rejection letter from Princeton - Princeton's EAS department interviews their top applicants as part of their admission procedure, so never being interviewed means I will definitely, definitely get a rejection letter. (I believe UPenn's History department has the same policy) If my official Columbia admission reaches me before I hear back from Michigan and Princeton, I will withdraw my applications to these two programs. 

In a parallel universe where I received admissions from Columbia, UChicago and Princeton, I'd still go to Columbia/UChicago. I was told that a PhD in (East Asian) History is more competitive in the job market than a PhD in East Asian studies if you eventually want to be hired as a historian. :/ 

Edited February 18, 2018 by AnUglyBoringNerd

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

8 hours ago, mxiongturquoise said:

May I ask who your POI would be if you were to come to Chicago?  My friend takes several classes in the history department, so I've heard some reviews/commentary about a few Chinese/Japanese history professors. 

Professor Susan L. Burns bc of my interest in gender and sexuality. 

An anecdote, when I was interviewed by my POI at Columbia, they asked about my other applications, so I also mentioned UChicago, and they immediately said "Oh Professor Susan Burns!" before I even got to the "and my POI at UChicago is" part.  

Edited February 18, 2018 by AnUglyBoringNerd

[Naito]

7 minutes ago, AnUglyBoringNerd said:

 I was told that a PhD in (East Asian) History is more competitive in the job market than a PhD in East Asian studies if you are looking to be hired as a historian. :/ 

This is completely true, inasmuch as (1) history is a traditional discipline, (2) area studies are really "vague", and (3) there are more traditional departments like history than there are interdisciplinary studies departments. The academic market is really rough but you are making the right choice. Enjoy Columbia/Chicago! 

[thesiswillbegreat]

Hi everyone!

I discovered this thread yesterday and read through all the replies this morning. It is such a nice place and so many friendly people here. Hope that everyone will do great

I applied to both EALC and history programs, very grateful to have been admitted to my top two choices, Harvard EALC (HEAL) and UW history. I also applied to Columbia (will be rejected for sure) and Penn (had a nice interview but it is a lesser match). Both POIs are great fit, so I also put some considerations into the choice between a history program and an EALC program. My primary field is China, and I think if I want to find a job in China there is not so much difference between a history or an EALC degree. Still the training in two departments can be different. I am quite attracted to the diversity of a history department -- there is better chance of studying and TA courses outside your field of study, but on the other side there are very few people working in your field (it should be a different story in UChicago/Columbia as discussed above, but in my case that's a real concern). 

[Naito]

@thesiswillbegreat Welcome to the forum and big congrats on your Harvard admit!  

If you want to find a TT job in China, I think you should go with Harvard. Obviously, the Harvard HEAL PhD is very clearly marketed as a history degree, not area studies one. Also as you said in China there's not really a difference between a history or an EALC degree. I think prestige probably matters more in Asia, so a Harvard PhD will open doors for you. 

Do you want to teach in mainland China (Beijing, Shanghai, etc.) or one of the SARs (e.g. HK)? There's a City University of HK professor in the Chinese & History Department with a PhD from Harvard: https://scholars.cityu.edu.hk/en/persons/huan-jin(36f84c25-06ee-4c7f-9e09-177491cb7982).html

With a Harvard PhD you can even get appointments in a Department of Economics and Management 東北大学経済学部　like this Professor and keep doing research in East Asian history! http://www.econ.tohoku.ac.jp/econ///english/staff/member/matsutani.html

Congrats again!! 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Naito

[lordtiandao]

 

2 hours ago, AnUglyBoringNerd said:

I was told that a PhD in (East Asian) History is more competitive in the job market than a PhD in East Asian studies if you eventually want to be hired as a historian. :/ 

Yes. If you do a East Asian PhD, you will have to explain your sub-field and focus and justify why you did East Asian as opposed to History.

1 hour ago, thesiswillbegreat said:

Hi everyone!

I discovered this thread yesterday and read through all the replies this morning. It is such a nice place and so many friendly people here. Hope that everyone will do great

I applied to both EALC and history programs, very grateful to have been admitted to my top two choices, Harvard EALC (HEAL) and UW history. I also applied to Columbia (will be rejected for sure) and Penn (had a nice interview but it is a lesser match). Both POIs are great fit, so I also put some considerations into the choice between a history program and an EALC program. My primary field is China, and I think if I want to find a job in China there is not so much difference between a history or an EALC degree. Still the training in two departments can be different. I am quite attracted to the diversity of a history department -- there is better chance of studying and TA courses outside your field of study, but on the other side there are very few people working in your field (it should be a different story in UChicago/Columbia as discussed above, but in my case that's a real concern). 

Harvard. I'm not sure about the situation in China but Hong Kong definitely prefers top US graduates. Lingnan's department head is a Harvard graduate and HKUST has a Harvard graduate assistant professor. If you're from a top 10 program and have an excellent publication record, getting a job in Hong Kong is not too difficult.

Edited February 18, 2018 by lordtiandao

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

3 hours ago, thesiswillbegreat said:

Hi everyone!

I discovered this thread yesterday and read through all the replies this morning. It is such a nice place and so many friendly people here. Hope that everyone will do great

I applied to both EALC and history programs, very grateful to have been admitted to my top two choices, Harvard EALC (HEAL) and UW history. I also applied to Columbia (will be rejected for sure) and Penn (had a nice interview but it is a lesser match). Both POIs are great fit, so I also put some considerations into the choice between a history program and an EALC program. My primary field is China, and I think if I want to find a job in China there is not so much difference between a history or an EALC degree. Still the training in two departments can be different. I am quite attracted to the diversity of a history department -- there is better chance of studying and TA courses outside your field of study, but on the other side there are very few people working in your field (it should be a different story in UChicago/Columbia as discussed above, but in my case that's a real concern). 

Congrats on the HEAL offer! Have you talked with your POI at Harvard about this concern? Maybe they'll allow (if not proactively encourage) you to also study with scholars outside the field of East Asian history, e.g. with historians in other fields and anthropologists/political scientists/etc who have research interests in East Asia?

Harvard has a very strong partnership with many good universities in mainland China, including Peking University and Tsinghua University, so it might be a lot easier to build networks. 

[Kaiwei]

@thesiswillbegreat Welcome and congrats on your Harvard admit! That is quite an accomplishment. 

As for history vs. area studies, I never realized that the history PhD would be more competitive in the job market, but it would make sense as you could apply for multiple positions across departments when looking for TT positions. This was something I found interesting, "Because of its demanding language requirements, the HEAL PhD takes about eight years to complete on average". Do most people complete this in under that requirement? Although I will probably apply for EALC when I go for PhD, the HEAL program looks great, and the curriculum seems quite comprehensive. 

[kotatsumuri]

Welcome @thesiswillbegreat, and congrats on your acceptances!

[pudewen]

HEAL is definitely a history degree, and you are certainly encouraged to take courses outside of East Asian history and work with faculty outside of East Asian history - it's the rare HEAL student who does not, I would say.

I'd say that 8 years is the upper end of the normal range. I'm finishing in 7, and I know people who have finished in 6.

[Naito]

@costevens 8 years! Yikes... If you do a PhD, see #3 here, "Finish as quickly as possible": http://100rsns.blogspot.com/p/if-you-decide-to-go-anyway.html

If you're willing to go abroad, there are always opportunities even for literature. I think you should choose EALC at the most prestigious schools (and you will), and eventually you'll also have options to go abroad to be a TT professor. See Lucas Klein whose specialty is Chinese poetry. I can totally imagine you becoming like Prof. Klein! http://www.chinese.hku.hk/main/dr-lucas-klein/

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Naito

[lordtiandao]

8 years for a history PhD is not too far off from the average. IIRC the AHA said it takes 7-8 years for the average PhD student to finish.

[tsuyuri]

On 2/14/2018 at 11:32 AM, AnUglyBoringNerd said:

Thank you for the kind words!  Indeed, this year's Chinese New Year will no longer feel like a funeral for my nascent academic career, and my gratitude is without doubt ineffable.

Also, good luck to everyone! I was rejected by Harvard (and then UPenn, both were History programs though) around this time last year, and I still remember how it felt. I actually contacted my very nice POI at Harvard after receiving my rejection, who gently explained to me why i was rejected - that was very helpful. I made all the changes I could for this round of application according to exactly what he said.  

That's really helpful! So if you contact the POI and ask the reasons of rejection they will tell you? I really wanted to know why I got rejected (well I am sure there would be a lot but it would be nice to know where can you enhance). After all the EAS department in Harvard is the only place I wanted to go for the past two years. I really wish my POI could tell me why I got rejected, yet I was afraid of bothering her. 

Congrats for being admitted by Columbia! It's a great program despite locating at NYC hahaha. I am saying that because I am one of the EALACs at Columbia now. Welcome!

[AnUglyBoringNerd]

6 hours ago, tsuyuri said:

That's really helpful! So if you contact the POI and ask the reasons of rejection they will tell you? I really wanted to know why I got rejected (well I am sure there would be a lot but it would be nice to know where can you enhance). After all the EAS department in Harvard is the only place I wanted to go for the past two years. I really wish my POI could tell me why I got rejected, yet I was afraid of bothering her. 

Congrats for being admitted by Columbia! It's a great program despite locating at NYC hahaha. I am saying that because I am one of the EALACs at Columbia now. Welcome!

I only contacted my POI at Harvard so I cannot say that all of our POIs will definitely tell us the reason. Maybe this has something to do with the personality of POIs and/or our rapport with them and/or how busy they are. It's not their responsibility to tell us the reasons, so if they do,  I'd say they've done us a huge favor. Think about it, a renowned historian bothered to take time to comment on our writing even though we are not their students - to me that's a huge privilege.  By all means, I don't think asking them about our application is gonna hurt us, although how we word this inquiry is important, in my humble opinion. Mine was something like this:

[short introduction to remind POI who I am] 

[A]s I intend to learn from this history of failure and reapply in the fall of 2017, I was wondering if it may be proper for me to ask for your advice regarding my application so I could make more improvements this year?

I apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience. Also, please allow me to thank you again for your encouragement. 

You can see that I used "from this history of failure", indicating I was very emotional back then (I was, which means I was less professional, oops), which, in hindsight, was unnecessary and should have been avoided. My suggestion is to try to frame our email in a positive and professional way with as much elegance and grace as you can gather, don't focus on the rejection but see it as an opportunity to make improvements, and of course let's take this opportunity to thank our POIs for reviewing our application.  You may not even mention the word "rejection", I think I said something like "I have received the official notification about the result of my application to XX program, and would like to thank you for reviewing my application. Meanwhile...." 

Hope this helps!

 

See if you can make this into a professional networking opportunity.