Accepted into one department, but want to join another department in the same school

[samman1994]

Hello everyone,

So I recently got accepted into the Chem Department at Iowa State University. I got an open house invitation, and they asked me what faculty members I would like to meet during this open house. Now my real desire was to join the BBMB program, because 2 out of the 3 faculty members I'd like to work with are in that department, but one of the faculty members informed me I should apply to both to increase my chances. So I did. I have not received any response from the BBMB department, but have received an acceptance from the Chem department. 

When I included the faculty members name that I'd like to meet, the school informed me that I cannot meet them because they are not in the Chem department, and are in the BBMB department. They told me I need to choose from people in the Chem department. Now from the people in the Chem department, I only want to meet one person (the same faculty member who advised me to apply to Chem and who's lab I'd like to join). 

The problem is, I'm afraid if I do accept this invitation, I can only join this one persons lab. I initially applied to this school because there were multiple faculty members I would like to work with (in case this one individual didn't work out). However, now I'm concerned I won't be able to work with them since they're in a different department. My fear is, I decide to go to this school to join this guys lab in the Chemistry Dept., but something goes wrong (grant issues, room problems, or guy falls very ill or something), and I can't join that lab. Now I am stuck in a department with faculty members that I have no desire to work with, and the faculty members that I do want to work with (those in the BBMB department), I won't be able to. 

But I could be wrong, and that's why I'm here. Is it possible to get accepted via one department (e.g. say Chemistry), but join a lab in another department (e.g. say BBMB). I.E. if this guys lab doesn't work out for whatever reason, could I join someone else in the other department or would I have to reapply to that department? 

Edit: Also would it be bad to inform the school I have no desire to meet anyone else on open house outside of that one faculty member (at least for people in that department)? I have not replied to their email yet telling me to pick other people to meet, since I didn't want to look bad by saying, there is no one else I want to meet. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by samman1994

[Eigen]

You can't just switch programs, no. Sometimes you can work in an affiliated lab, but it sounds like that's not the case with the two people you want to meet. And sometimes departments can work something out in the case of unusual circumstances.

And yes, it's no going to look great if you only want to meet one person in the department. 

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. You've been invited to meet with faculty, you haven't accepted the admission offer and have to have it all planned out. This is a Chem event, so meet with the one you like and maybe see if there's another 1 or 2 in the faculty of chem that at least have interesting research. I would not just say I want to only meet with the one person. You still don't know what's going on with BBMB so just don't sign on the dotted line yet. See what Chem has to offer, see if you get an offer from BBMB, and weigh your options then.

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

Also, congratulations on the acceptance!!! 

[samman1994]

Well the problem is, I've looked at everyone in the Chem department, and didn't find anything I even remotely wanted to do. Frankly, I don't even know why my POI is in the Chem department (he's theoretically in both Chem and BBMB). Of course I can still go there and look at the school, talk to my POI, etc. But if I can't join the other labs, I am not willing to go to that school (at least via the Chem program) for just one lab. Also, thank you!

In other news, that being the case, do you think it would be unwise to contact my POI and let him know of the situation? He was the one who informed me to apply to the Chem program, and he said to do so because he could get me in through that program (even though he knew the other POIs I'd like to work with as well). So I feel like he had a direct impact on my admission process. I was initially thinking of contacting him and letting him know of the situation and the problem I was having. 

[lemma]

Why did you apply to a department where you didn't have a backup supervisor that interested you? I'm having trouble understanding that, and I think that professors might too. You're going to have to be really careful about how you communicate your situation, because you run the risk of seeming like you didn't do proper due diligence before applying. 

Joint supervision across departments might be possible - explore that if you can. One of the schools I was considering suggested joint supervision might be most appropriate for me. 

[samman1994]

13 minutes ago, lemma said:

Why did you apply to a department where you didn't have a backup supervisor that interested you? I'm having trouble understanding that, and I think that professors might too. You're going to have to be really careful about how you communicate your situation, because you run the risk of seeming like you didn't do proper due diligence before applying. 

Joint supervision across departments might be possible - explore that if you can. One of the schools I was considering suggested joint supervision might be most appropriate for me. 

That one is on me. I didn't really think the move out completely, the way I saw it, sure I can just apply to both and hopefully get into both. The problem for me isn't advisors, but rather joining another lab if this doesn't work out. I didn't think about that part until I got the response from the school saying I couldn't meet those professors during the open house. 

So simply put, I applied to it because I'd rather have a program than no program, and didn't think out the details completely. 

[lemma]

6 minutes ago, samman1994 said:

So simply put, I applied to it because I'd rather have a program than no program, and didn't think out the details completely. 

That happens. It's not ideal, but there's a lot of stress over graduate applications and no one manages it perfectly. Just keep that in mind when you word emails to the university - make sure you express it in a way that doesn't look like you let this fall through the cracks, as that may not be the image you want to portray. 

[TakeruK]

Echoing what the others said, no, once you are accepted into a department, the offer is good for that department only. If you are interested in BBMB then look into those profs when you get an offer from BBMB. Basically, treat them as completely different schools because grad programs are generally completely independent of each other.

Meanwhile, make the most of your current opportunity! I can't believe that you can only think of one person that you might be interested in meeting with. You're not committing to their lab or anything! So cast a very wide net and pick 4 or 5 profs that somewhat interest you. If you are serious about a PhD in the field, you must be able to find some people you are interested in. You cannot be so narrow minded that someone must match all of your interests exactly in order to even meet with them.

So what do you have to lose? Meet with some interesting profs and learn about their research. You might find something you didn't know you like, or at least, learn about what other cool things are happening in the world. If you are so self-centered that you only want to learn and hear about your own research interests, it's going to show and it will reflect poorly on you throughout your career. Also note that as you advance in your career, you'll be invited to give talks at other schools and you'll be asked who you want to meet with (these visits are usually long days where you meet with students and faculty and give a talk). You're going to be meeting a lot with people outside of your interests because as a scholar, you will be expected to have intelligent conversations about all fields related to your work. 

[samman1994]

It has nothing to do with self-centered at all. It has everything to do with my original concern of being unable to join labs in another department. I have no problem in meeting and discussing other peoples research in the chemistry department with them, I just have no desire to join their labs and do my dissertation with them. This meeting, for me at least, seemed like a great opportunity to meet the people who's labs I'd like to join, but most of the people I want to meet are in a different department. In hindsight, this is my fault for not thinking ahead of this situation, and just taking my POIs advice and applying to a department that only had 1 person I was interested in joining (in start contrast to BBMB which has 3-4 different professors I'd like to potentially work under). 

 

[fuzzylogician]

I think it's fairly simple: if this were your only offer, would you take it? Remember that if you are admitted to department X, you'll get a degree from department X. Department Y owes you nothing, and your degree won't be from them. Keep in mind that it's very risky to only have one POI that you could possibly see yourself working with. If the answer is nonetheless yes, then you go. Out of prudence and politeness, you find other people who you might want to work with, or who you think at the very least it'd be useful for you to be friendly with, and you meet with them. You try to keep in mind that eventually, when you graduate, you'll need multiple letters of recommendation for practically anything you might want to do (and probably earlier too, if you want to apply for grants and the like while you're a student). So, you try and identify those people who you might take relevant classes with, who you might meet with at least on occasion, who might serve on your committee(s), etc., and you make friends with them. If there is really absolutely no one other than this one person who you find remotely interesting, then frankly I think it'd be a bad decision to attend this program, for all of the reasons above. You'll need a committee, and multiple recommendations, and you really want more than one person to learn from. If this is the situation you're in, and you feel like going and meeting people will be a waste of time, then decline. However, it's probably worth keeping in mind that this is a networking opportunity. Even if you don't attend this program, you can extend your network and make a good impression on people. You also never know if you won't change your mind (for better or worse) once you actually meet people and see the place in person. This, of course, depends on you actually having an open mind and not dismissing everyone out of hand before you even meet them. Anyway, that's my $.02. 

[TakeruK]

13 hours ago, samman1994 said:

It has nothing to do with self-centered at all. It has everything to do with my original concern of being unable to join labs in another department. I have no problem in meeting and discussing other peoples research in the chemistry department with them, I just have no desire to join their labs and do my dissertation with them. 

Ah okay. In your first post you had said you didn't want to meet with anyone else. But if you are still open-minded about meeting with other profs, then fuzzy wrote the advice a lot better.

[samman1994]

Yeah, that's why I was asking. In the off-chance that I had no other option (this was the only school that I got accepted to), I wanted to see whether or not it would be a good or bad idea to still not only go to the open house, but to potentially accept their offer. I've seen other people's research, and there are some that I would be interested in discussing, but only one I'd really like to join and do a dissertation under (at least in this department). 

I guess at the end of the day it'll really depend on if this is my only option, or if another school accepts me. Thank you all for your feedback! 

[juilletmercredi]

Yeah, that's why I was asking. In the off-chance that I had no other option (this was the only school that I got accepted to), I wanted to see whether or not it would be a good or bad idea to still not only go to the open house, but to potentially accept their offer. I've seen other people's research, and there are some that I would be interested in discussing, but only one I'd really like to join and do a dissertation under (at least in this department).

Keep an open mind about that, too. Remember that while a dissertation is the longest thing that takes the most time out of all the things you'll do, it's not the only or even the most important goal of doing a PhD. Your PI is important for a variety of other reasons, and your interests may change and shift significantly in the time you are in your PhD program. In fact, they probably will - you will learn so much and experience so much that you haven't already. My eventual dissertation topic was almost completely different from what I thought it would be when I was applying to graduate school. (Same general area, very broadly speaking, but completely different population and outcomes.)

Sometimes, it's better to do a dissertation/work under a PI who's field is not perfectly aligned with yours but is a good advisor for a variety of other reasons: maybe they've got excellent connections, or maybe they are a really good advisor and give you the freedom to do what you want to do, or maybe they have the best funding and will help you get grants, or maybe they're great at helping you get pubs. You have to take all of those factors into account in addition to the research. That's why it's a good idea to identify multiple people - because sometimes the person whose research is best aligned with yours isn't really the best match for your style of learning and research and work.

Go to the open house, and pick 2-3 chemistry professors to speak to (or 3-4, depending on how much time you have). Try to select people based on tangential interests or places where your work might intersect...and then talk to them AND their graduate students. Try to get a sense for how open they are to interdisciplinary work, or work that intersects with theirs, and how independent they allow their graduate students to be. I've known several doctoral students who work under an advisor whose research is actually quite different from theirs, but that advisor is senior, well-connected, well-resourced, and allows and encourages independence from their students while also being a great source of advice and learning. In those cases, the students usually have a secondary advisor in another department (and sometimes another nearby university) whose research is more in their area. You may find someone who is amenable to that setup. Don't ask directly, but put some feelers out.

You still may decide that ultimately it's not the right choice for you, but at least do your due diligence in making sure it can't work out.

Also, it is VERY early yet, so you may yet receive a response from BBMB.