Conferences & Internship Networking

[MarineBluePsy]

Now that my research is moving along my advisor and I have been discussing poster sessions and which conferences are a better fit.  My advisor is adamant that the only conferences that matter are a few large ones and while I'm open to that experience and the networking opportunity I'm a bit sticker shocked.  There's a fee to submit a poster abstract for consideration (and no guarantee it will be accepted), there's a fee to attend the conference (even if you're presenting something), and all of these large conferences are in major cities where I have no contacts so airfare and overnight accommodations are necessary.  My advisor will pay for printing the poster and my department offers a few hundred bucks toward travel expenses, but that is it.  Am I missing something here or is it kind of absurd to think that grad students can afford this with our tiny stipends? 

I have done some searching and found several smaller conferences that would be a good fit and don't have fees for attending or submitting, are in more affordable cities, and in driving distance.  My advisor completely rejected the suggestion of smaller conferences primarily because the internship and post doc people don't attend them so I won't have any networking opportunities and explained that all of the past students in our lab attended these large conferences, benefited from the networking opportunity, and then landed great internships and post docs.  Ok good for them.  Those past students also had spouses with great jobs and/or parents willing to pitch in financially or had friends/family they could crash with in these large cities and I have none of those things.  I talked with another professor in my department and they basically sided with my advisor, that either I do what everyone  before me has done or expect challenges landing an internship and post doc.  So was I naive to think that getting an internship or post doc was about all of the contents of your application and not just who you met or know?  Any thoughts from those who had similar challenges with their advisor and either found a way to attend the large conferences or put their foot down and went the smaller conference route?

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

I'm not in psychology, but most people (I don't remember the exact percentage, but it is high) end up getting hired as a result of their network. It's important to make these connections so that they can let you know when a job is opening and send your resume in with a recommendation (if they aren't the one directly choosing the candidate). Although it's unfortunate, who you know can be just as important as what you know (not more important, because you still need to nail the interview and be able to fulfill the responsibilities of your position).

Have you mentioned your financial concerns to your advisor? Many times students share hotels or carpool to conferences (when possible) to save money. The advisor might be able to help get you in touch with alternative financial streams to pay/lower the cost of the conference. 

[MarineBluePsy]

I did some browsing on the forums and saw that students in the same lab sometimes split travel costs, but that is highly unlikely to be an option for me.  There's 4 of us, 2 are married and combine conference travel with vacation and bring their spouse and the other student will be staying with family.  I pretty much got an eye roll from my advisor when I mentioned the astronomical cost of these conferences.  I remember when this came up last year when I was brand new to the lab and another student was concerned about the expense and my advisor just said figure it out.  Maybe all advisors have this sort of attitude and I just missed the memo.

[fuzzylogician]

Is there a way to combine small conferences with larger ones? Part of networking is also meeting other students in other towns, and they can serve as a base of operations (=crash space) in some cities. I often share a room with colleagues from other universities rather than from my own university, depending on the situation, if I can't get crash space. (Some conferences can help with crash space if you write them, especially if the conference is organized by/near a university). In addition, sometimes conferences will waive registration fees or reduce them for students with limited resources, or they may allow you to volunteer to help with on-site organization in return for some reduction of costs. Then there are AirBnBs and similar for accommodations, etc. Overall, your advisor is correct that the large conferences are where the real action takes place and they are the places where it's worth going to and making connections, but their dismissal of your financial concerns is disheartening and not okay. 

[MarineBluePsy]

AirBnB I'd thought of, but the rest of those suggestions are great as well.  I have some time to see if I can figure out an affordable solution, but yeah it would be nice if my advisor remembered the poor student days more vividly.

[PokePsych]

I always use the website couchsurfing for this. Have also hosted plenty of other students. 

[lewin]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:43 AM, MarineBluePsy said:

Am I missing something here or is it kind of absurd to think that grad students can afford this with our tiny stipends? 

Some students are funded to attend conferences... e.g., when I was a grad student the dept covered one trip per year and my advisor would cover another from his grant if it was a good opportunity. Some conferences also have travel funds available if you apply. I know this doesn't help your situation but I'm mentioning it for potential grad students who might read this... the "absurdity" might not generalize and, when visiting, it's a good idea to ask about travel funding and expectations.

 

On 12/22/2017 at 9:43 AM, MarineBluePsy said:

...getting an internship or post doc [is] about all of both the contents of your application and not just  who you met or know?  

A little bit, naive yes. And you phrased it as a false dichotomy so I fixed it to be more accurate. It's both things. Meeting someone at a conference who likes you can mean that they give your application a closer look, or they talk you up to other decision makers in the department. And this isn't any different than any other job.  Someone once told me, "Every talk is a job talk," meaning that you're making an impression, good or bad, to someone who might be reading your application later.

 

[MarineBluePsy]

Hmmm I hadn't heard of couchsurfing sites, but what an interesting concept.  My guess is that sort of thing has been popular in other countries for ages and the US is a bit behind.  Couldn't hurt to look into though, thanks @Psygeek

 

@lewin Actually the phrasing regarding internship and post doc was based on my thoughts about it (that all of the contents of the application matter) and what my advisor actually said (that the only thing that matters is who you meet/know from large conferences) so the phrasing was intentional.  I am perfectly fine with both being important (as I understand that in plenty of circumstances that is the case), but my advisor disagrees with that and further discussion on this resulted again in my being told that the *only* thing that matters is attending these large conferences to network.  

 

Regardless, there have been lots of great suggestions in this thread and I think its better to keep my eyes on a mix of small and large conferences and see what makes works out in the end.

[Oshawott]

5 hours ago, MarineBluePsy said:

@lewin Actually the phrasing regarding internship and post doc was based on my thoughts about it (that all of the contents of the application matter) and what my advisor actually said (that the only thing that matters is who you meet/know from large conferences) so the phrasing was intentional.  I am perfectly fine with both being important (as I understand that in plenty of circumstances that is the case), but my advisor disagrees with that and further discussion on this resulted again in my being told that the *only* thing that matters is attending these large conferences to network. 

I think there's a miscommunication here. The contents of your application do matter, but in terms of whether you should spend money on conferences or not, its the networking opportunities that matter. Poster presentations aren't really held to a high regard when evaluating CVs, and every senior academic I've met has warned against organizing a symposium because it is a time-sink unless you manage to get a big-named person on board (i.e., you grow your network). For the most part, any good research at these conferences are either already published, in press, or will be in press in the next few months and those that aren't just get dropped and there's rarely a repository for posters/talks for you to cite anyway. Now if your supervisor is telling you that your CV doesn't matter for post docs that's just irresponsible.

There are certainly smaller conferences (depending on your area) where good networking can be done (but they might not be local enough for you depending on your location) such as the Midwestern Psychological Association or the new Society for the Improvement of Psychological Science conference. Of course, I only mention these two because when I look at who's attending, its people who I would be interested in working with for a post-doc so smaller conferences may differ for you.

If you're dead-set on these smaller conferences, why not try to address your supervisor's concerns? Are there any researchers who you want to work with going to these conferences? Or is it just going to be a line on your CV? Of course the latter isn't that bad if you're planning on applying for scholarships and need to show research productivity in some capacity but as you progress in grad school, conferences shouldn't be CV fillers but instead a way to meet new people who you can collaborate with.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Oshawott

[MarineBluePsy]

Yep I agree that my advisor and I are not communicating well.  When I look at the list of things that need to be submitted for internship and post doc applications it is very clear that landing these positions does have a lot to do with what you submit and not just who you met from the site you're applying to.  Sure it doesn't hurt if your name is recognized and your application is bumped up or if these connections share some insights about aspect of the application that are more closely scrutinized.  Since it is still early in my program I've been working on expanding a variety of areas of my CV so that my applications look good when that time comes.

As for researchers that I may want to work with in the future, that is still something I'm figuring out, but I do look at who's presenting or doing a workshop at small and large conferences to gauge how interesting/worthwhile they might be.  My advisor has made it clear that I'm better off spending my time conducting my own research rather than organizing a symposium so that is not an issue.

If poster presentations aren't highly regarded then it would make less sense to invest in doing one at a large conference when a smaller conference is more cost effective and can still demonstrate research productivity which is also important.  Now if I were presenting a paper at a larger conference  that seems like it would be more highly regarded, lead to more networking opportunities, and therefore worth the expense.

Lots more to think about....

[fuzzylogician]

2 hours ago, MarineBluePsy said:

If poster presentations aren't highly regarded then it would make less sense to invest in doing one at a large conference when a smaller conference is more cost effective and can still demonstrate research productivity which is also important.  Now if I were presenting a paper at a larger conference  that seems like it would be more highly regarded, lead to more networking opportunities, and therefore worth the expense.

It seems to me that your advisor is thinking beyond the CV line to who you might meet at these conferences. Networking mostly happens outside of the lecture halls. It's correct (in most fields/cases) that a talk is valued more than a poster, but if we're frank, one talk/poster are probably not going to be what bumps your CV from one pile to the other, and the prestige of the conference also makes a difference, so it's not as simple as talk >> poster. You want to get some visibility and name recognition not only among your closest (potential) collaborators and colleagues but -- importantly -- also more widely within your (sub)field. I've occasionally had excellent interactions at posters and conversely small audiences at talks (e.g. you're scheduled on the morning of the last day, and the conference party is the night before; you're scheduled at the same time as a famous person and everyone is at that other session, etc). Some things you can't control. Large conferences is general bring more opportunities, but of course the small venues might too, just different ones. 

[PokePsych]

Although certainly the application matters for Postdoc and the like, somehow all recent PhDs in my school ended up doing Postdocs or professorships at schools where my uni has close ties with or that were obviously through the supervisor's network. Only 2-3 managed to get something outside this circle.

Never underestimate the power of networking!

[MarineBluePsy]

On 12/29/2017 at 9:08 PM, Psygeek said:

Although certainly the application matters for Postdoc and the like, somehow all recent PhDs in my school ended up doing Postdocs or professorships at schools where my uni has close ties with or that were obviously through the supervisor's network. Only 2-3 managed to get something outside this circle.

Never underestimate the power of networking!

Funny you mention this.  A few graduates from my lab have all ended up at a particular internship site that my advisor has close ties with.  I think it was sort of assumed I'd follow in that path, but that site isn't a good fit with my interests so I am not planning to apply there.