brown_eyed_girl

If ICL is cheaper and more highly ranked, what is your question? What do you like about Columbia that is making this choice difficult for you?

I don't know much about your field, but from what you've said here, Michigan is ranked better, less expensive, and you like the campus more. However, if you want to go into clinical psych a kinesiology degree doesn't sound particularly relevant... but you applied for it, so I assume there's something about it that appeals to you strongly. I suppose if the goal is psych, I'd go for the psych degree, or at least talk to some professors and mentors in your field and see what they think would yield a better placement later on.

I found this to be very helpful: http://theprofessorisin.com/2012/01/12/dr-karens-rules-of-the-academic-cv/ That said, I'd still love suggestions on what to put on a CV before you have publications and conference presentations under your belt. After I followed Dr. Karen's rules my CV was only a little longer than a page. (When I was applying for doctoral programs I did kind of a hybrid CV/resume with bullet points to explain each position, but later learned that that's a no-no on a real CV. It didn't seem to keep me out of schools, though.)

In my field, Art History, many people go into PhD programs with the intent of being museum curators (PhD is required for most curators) rather than professors, and it is simply seen as one of the other main ways to use the degree. The same may be less true of other humanities fields, though.

I agree that you sound very competitive; I had a similar background (highest honors from a top 25 school), have spent my gap year working in my field, and in the Fall I'll be attending a PhD program in the top 3 for my discipline. So it is definitely possible! I would aim to do as well as you can on the GRE (look at Magoosh to see what the average scores are for successful applicants in top 10 programs, top 25 programs, etc.) and ideally do some relevant work in your year off. GREs are not everything, but obviously you want to keep your options open by doing well. I also agree that it's not about applying to the biggest number of schools - apply to a range of places that seem right for you and your specific interests. In small fields that may mean 4 places, and for others it may mean 10. Only apply to places that you could see yourself attending, but keep your options open. Each school you apply to requires a lot of effort, money, and time, so make your decisions carefully.

I'd take the teacher job, that sounds like a great opportunity. Your school options right now don't sound great and I agree that they aren't worth going into debt for. That said, even if you didn't get into any top-10 schools the last two rounds, you may be able to get into some great top-20s or top-50s fully funded next time around if you're still set on the PhD. Take some time to do something different, make some money, learn to be a great teacher, and you'll return to the coming application seasons stronger.

I don't see why it would be inappropriate to ask. I talked to my boyfriend about the issue because we eventually plan to marry and have kids and I don't really see it happening while I'm in grad school, which means putting it off for 7 years. I think it would be unfair not to tell him that now. When to have kids is a big issue for a lot of couples, so I think it's better to talk about it before you're married to make sure you're on the same page.

I would go to the top 15 for sure, unless you think you would be considerably happier at the top 50 or the financial situation is considerably better there. Rank matters a lot in academia and the things you've listed about each school don't make the top 50 sound much more appealing. Larger size has pros and cons, and your research interests may change, so as long as there are one or two people you can work with at the first school it sounds like a better bet.

I agree that I would not go into any PhD program that didn't offer full tuition + a stipend you can live on. Even if your offer from Claremont were fully funded, I would also look at its rate of placement in the job market and consider carefully whether it will put you on good footing after graduation. The folks on the Philosophy board may be able to offer more specific advice if you haven't already asked this question over there. You also haven't mentioned your goals with the degree or the pros/cons for you of these programs outside of funding, so it's hard to say much about any of these programs except from a financial standpoint. Financially speaking though, the New School looks like it's probably your best option right now, though cost of living in NYC of course needs to be taken into account. That said, I would also think carefully about whether a second MA is necessary if your eventual goal is a philosophy PhD, and whether the New School has a good track record of getting people into strong PhD programs. Are you particularly excited about any of these offers? What are you leaning towards? If you're not very excited about at least one of them, you might also just want to consider what else you can do to bolster your application and reapply later. Improving GRE scores (philosophy applicants seem to have some of the highest average GRE scores), getting relevant work experience, improving your writing sample, and finding POIs whose interests align better with your own may make more sense for you than spending more time and money in a second MA.

You could ask the admissions office at your particular school. Most places I applied asked me to self-report my GRE scores (either by simply entering them into the application or uploading a screenshot/scan of the ETS results page), so that the application could be reviewed immediately and official scores would just be used to verify the self-reported info. That said, applications are usually not considered "complete" until all materials are submitted, including official GRE scores, so it makes sense that you may not have been reviewed until pretty late. Most schools will tell you that you risk your application not being considered unless all materials are not submitted by the application deadline, including LORs and GRE scores. That said, "over a month" isn't very long for an application to be considered. The school that notified me soonest took about 2 months and the longest took 3 months, and that was WITH all materials submitted at once. So, don't worry yet!

That's pretty frustrating if you've been admitted to other schools that need to hear back by the 15th. I think it would be fine to say that to the admissions person in a polite way (say that it's your top choice but other schools are waiting to hear back and you'd like to be able to make an informed decision), though it won't necessarily hasten the response. February 15 is a pretty late application deadline. In the meantime, I think you and TheChai (and anyone else in a similar position) should request extensions from the other schools waiting on your responses since you won't have all the information by the 15th.

Where to apply really depends on your specific interests, strengths, and what you are looking for in a program. In my case, my subfield is small, so there were a limited number of programs that even had a POI I could apply to work with (without switching subfields). I targeted about 8 potential programs after doing some initial research and getting advice from several people in my field. I then talked to my mentors about where they thought would be a good fit for me and what was realistic for me; their advice swayed me into applying to some places I hadn't initially considered and not applying to others. Then I emailed all my potential POIs to see whether they were even accepting students, and learned that 2 of the potential advisors I had targeted were going to be on leave. All those factors limited the pool of potential schools, so I ended up applying to 5 places, 4 of which were in the top 10. I knew that getting into these programs is extremely competitive even in the best of circumstances, and I wasn't sure what to expect, but I did take a look at websites like Magoosh that list average GRE scores for various schools, and I made sure that my test scores and grades were in line with the kind of applicant that these programs normally accept. If I hadn't been in the same ballpark as those stats, I would have applied more broadly and looked at lower ranked programs. Honestly I was a little nervous that I didn't apply to more places, but my mentors made a good point: do you really want to spend the money and effort applying to someplace you wouldn't actually want to go? All this to say, I think selecting schools is very personal and really depends on your fit with professors and the department at each program, as well as some random factors like who is taking on new students. If you're not sure what kind of program would be a good fit and that you are qualified for, ask your mentors and professors for guidance. They are a great resource - they should know the expectations of someone applying in your field and be able to tell you how you might compare with other applicants. FWIW, out of the 5 places I applied, I got into 1 top-ranked PhD program and 2 very good MA programs, so it worked out for me.

I like your gratefulness rant. We could all use more of those. I too am pretty grateful. I've got a great boyfriend, some really wonderful friends, a fine-for-now job that has given me tons of great experience in my field, and in the Fall I'm going to one of the best PhD programs in my field and getting paid to learn stuff -- what an awesome luxury. Life is good.

I actually think you're in a great position age-wise, since fertility doesn't start declining precipitously in most women until mid to late thirties. I'll be *entering* my PhD program at 25, hopefully done by 32, and probably won't be established in a career track job for another few years, which means I'll have to juggle a bit more to have kids before I'm at an age where pregnancy becomes riskier. In your case I think you have a good amount of wiggle room, and if you decide to have kids before you are settled in a career job, finishing your PhD so young means that you won't be behind age-wise if you take some time off.

In the US it's pretty common to go from BA to PhD, but I can't speak to the requirements in other countries. Most of the programs I looked at in the UK, for example, require an MA before applying to a doctoral degree.

Congrats on your decision, glad it worked out!

I think since the deadline is so close it would be fine for you to contact the school and ask about your status again. Let them know that as the deadline is approaching you are hoping they can give you some information so that you can make an informed decision.

1. I don't know the rest of your record (GPA? Honors program? Internships?) but generally speaking, if you don't have a lot of experience in your field, yes, you are more likely to get into a masters program than a doctoral program. An MS is not required for PhD programs, but it's probably your best bet of building experience and proving yourself to PhD committees, unless you land a job in your field and build practical experience by working for a year or two after undergrad, which is another route a lot of people take. It's probably possible to get into a PhD without a lot of research experience in your field if all other things are aligned right - stellar grades, GREs, letters of rec, experience in related areas - but especially in the sciences research is key. 2. It's my understanding that a lot of people make up for unimpressive undergrad careers by excelling in their masters programs. I think admissions committees usually give more weight to your most recent work, and will take into account improvement. It's not rare to see someone who went to mid-tier institutions for undergrad and MA work end up in top-tier doctoral programs for this reason. 3. If your end goal is a PhD, it's my impression that the rank of your MA/MS institution matters much less than the rank of your doctoral program. If your end goal is a terminal masters, then the rank of the MS program may matter a bit more. In either case, go to the place where you think you will have the best combination of research experience, mentor support, possibilities for work/research experience in the surrounding area, and departmental funding. How much debt you are willing to take on is very personal, but you may want to look at projected starting salaries of people in your field and think about how long it will take you to pay off your loans with that salary. Should you worry about dead-ends? I personally don't think so, since there are really no guarantees in this job market; spending a few years in a grad program seems as good a use of your time as any, and more education does still correlate with higher pay in general. 4. Rank matters in terms of job placement and the resources you'll have, but so does the reputation of your individual POI/research lab or group, etc. Debt-wise, most PhD programs are funded (at least for 5 years), and most will tell you never to consider an unfunded one. That said, it's still a serious investment of time, energy, and resources. Even going to a top 5 program doesn't promise that you'll get a job on the other side. So do it because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else, and by all means try for the best program for your needs. And be aware that rank is not everything... there are people from mid and low-tier institutions who will be successful, and people at Ivys who won't be.

I've also thought a bit about the kids thing. I'm definitely not at a stage where I want kids right now (in my mid-twenties), but I know I'd like them eventually, and I'm about to enter a PhD program. I've also heard of people having kids during the dissertation stage... but enough people don't finish dissertations without kids that I'd be worried I wouldn't get much done with such a major distraction. So, that would leave me planning on starting a family at some point after the dissertation, when I'd also ideally be starting my career and looking for jobs. There will never really be a convenient time... not that there ever is if you're a woman with a career, but with academia my career will just be starting when I'm in my early-mid thirties, rather than a lot of people who've had more established jobs for a while where they can take maternity leave, etc. The plus is that my boyfriend (we've talked about having a family eventually) has a flexible freelance career, so he may be able to share more parenting duties than the average guy. It's definitely a predicament for women who want careers and families.

Do you enjoy law? I know multiple people who went to law school because it seemed like the reasonable thing to do (rather than pursuing less concrete fields like psych), hated law school but trudged through it, and are now saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt even after considerable scholarships, AND have realized they hate law and want to do something else. Once you're in that situation, it's pretty hard to switch fields since minimum loan payments on that much debt are considerable, and it's hard to find other jobs that pay as well as law ones. Obviously this doesn't happen to everyone and you might love law and excel at it, but something to consider for sure. My two cents are that if you go into law you either need to be passionate about it OR be the type who is attracted to stability and sees law as a steady career path, but doesn't necessarily seek fulfillment from their career. If you are not passionate about law but do seek an emotionally rewarding career, go for the PhD instead; otherwise if you are anything like my friends you may be throwing around the term "soul-crushing" a lot. It's definitely a hard choice and not something anyone on here can tell you... and I am biased because I'm pursuing a humanities PhD despite the bleak job prospects. But I really am a believer in the idea that you'll do best at what you love, I never expect to make a lot of money, and even in the worst case scenario I'm still getting paid to learn for the next 5-7 years, which I'm pretty excited about.

Woohoo, glad to hear that your story had a happy ending with some amazing acceptances! I'll be at Columbia so maybe I'll see you around. Side note: it took over 3 weeks for my Columbia GSAS decision to arrive after my departmental admission (during which I found this thread and was stressing that maybe they'd made a horrible mistake...), but it did finally come.

Yes, I got an "official" GSAS letter with final funding info, housing info, UID, etc. about three weeks after I got my departmental acceptance letter. If it's been longer than that you can always call GSAS to check in or check your spam folder to make sure it didn't get lost. Not sure if it's the same for all departments, but in my case the GSAS letter showed up in the application portal and I received an email notifying me that the "official" decision was ready, though I'd already been admitted to the dept and attended an admitted students' open house.

I'm excited to be coming to Columbia for a PhD in Art History this fall Lovely to meet you all!

I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest about how you're feeling, and simply asking whether he is looking for something short-term or whether he sees potential for something longer. There are no guarantees with any relationship, but (unless he's a total commitment-phobe anyhow) it doesn't hurt to check in to gauge his interest. The sooner you're on the same page the better. (And by this I don't mean, "Hey, do you think you see us getting married in X number of years and would you turn down a great job for me?" but a more general kind of open-ended query to get a feel for where you stand.) This actually happened to me this year, but with a slightly different set of circumstances -- I started dating someone in September, right before starting my PhD applications, and let him know I might be moving soon. We were immediately crazy about each other, so since he knew I might be moving he brought up pretty early on that he had strong feelings for me and would consider moving with me. We're still going strong and he's planning to move cross-country with me in the Fall! I'm so glad we discussed it early on - the last thing I needed going through applications was the stress of thinking of leaving him behind.

Totally normal. You won't necessarily be approved at both anyhow so I'd recommend applying to a few places you could see yourself living at a time. Options are good.