Sigaba

Hello everyone-

I am feeling a bit discouraged by browsing the admissions statistics to the various counseling psychology doctorate programs around the country. I am really hoping someone might be able to give me some sound advice on getting in to a decent program.

A bit about me-
Planning to apply for programs starting Aug. 2013
Undergrad degree in psych- 3.45 GPA, with a 3.7 in my final 60 credits
Will be taking the GRE this coming January
Experience: One semester internship in a mental health clinic, 7 months working as an advocate for at risk youth, 2 semesters as a research assistant (cognitive and social), and some other less applicable stuff as well.

My questions are these:
1. What can I do in the next year or so to improve my chances? What sorts of experience would speak the loudest to admissions people?
2. Would I be better off trying for a masters in first, then moving on to the PhD when I finish? If so, which specific types of masters programs should I be looking into? Terminal or non-terminal? General psych or counseling?

Any other advice from someone who has been or is currently in my situation would be so very much appreciated. Thank you!

phetish--
As a T.A., I would tell undergraduates to develop a brief list of talking points related to the course materials and then go to a professor's office and have a relaxed conversation. When I could, I would give the professor a "head's up" so he'd know who was coming, why, and what I knew of the student's strengths and shortcomings. The purpose of this first meeting was to build an undergraduate's confidence and to start building rapport with the professor as soon as possible.

From there, I would pester the undergraduate to keep visiting the professor. I would also give that student's assignments an additional once over so he or she could work on writing skills. Meanwhile, I would bombard that student with additional optional reading opportunities that were related to the student's interests within the class.

If a student gravitated towards an area outside the subject of the class, I'd direct that student's attention to professors who might make a better fit.

If time permitted and the rapport was good, I'd offer to take a look at a student's writing sample and/or LoR. (I basically insisted on a two day window.)

For me, the big picture was about (1) getting students to have more self confidence so they could take themselves and their work as students more seriously, (2) getting them to understand that sustained academic excellence requires a student to take an active role in his or her education, and (3) getting them to understand that I was there to support them in achieving the goals they defined.

Hi everybody!

I was wondering if anyone has been through or knows anything about the Industrial/Organizational Psychology Ph.D program at BGU. Any feedback on the program, BGU, or the area in general? I am married with two small children, so I am looking for a place to live that is relatively inexpensive and safe.

Thanks!

Hi everybody!

I was wondering if anyone has been through or knows anything about the Industrial/Organizational Psychology Ph.D program at CGU. Any feedback on the program, CGU, or Claremont in general? I am married with two small children, so I am looking for a place to live that is relatively inexpensive and safe. I am from the midwest, so obviously I am trying to determine whether we can even afford to live here. Any feedback is appreciated!

Thanks!

Hey man, I'm just speaking what I think is the truth--you come off to me as a super duper mega troll. But in my defense, I PMed you about the troll stuff and didn't blast you on the forum for it. But since you decided to bring it out of PM, fair game, right? Here is why I think you are a troll:

- You cycle from "thanks, that helps!" to "man everyone here is so cliquey" to "here are MY philosophical insights" and back again.
- You act like you understand academia ("So far I've done alright, and so far I've noticed academia in "real life" values these things - integrity, truth-seeking, standing up for oneself, standing up for facts, standing up for doing things the best way possible. It's only a bunch of online grad students that think they know better.") but in another thread you admit that you seem incapable of handling academia/research.
- You brag about your grades, you rag on TAs, blame the forum for... god knows what ("It seems a lot of people on here dislike whenever anyone mentions something above some generic average. Above average on the GRE? Best not mention it. Good grade? Keep it to yourself. Good school? Be careful what you say. Good house? A lot of money? Little debt? Happy family? Don't have to study for the GRE? Spend less than average time on something (like, say, an SOP)? All these things are off limits.") yet again, you appear to be inept/helpless when it comes to research (which is what really matters).

It is infuriating, and, as a result, you've managed to rile up a good number of the forum members. Good job.

I simply don't buy that a graduate student at Stanford could honestly be as consistently rude, floundering, or self-contradictory as you have been. Maybe this is just how you are and I am a terrible person, but either way, I refuse to engage you any further after this message. I think you should stop posting and reflect on how silly you have been.

If I may, I recommend that participants in this spirited conversation define their terms and tease out their assumptions. What do you mean when you say "fair"? What constitutes "financial justice"? Why should a democratic form of government focus on addressing and resolving economic issues?

@The historians. Please do keep in mind that when you get to graduate school, you'll be brawling over these and other issues frequently and at a level of intensity greater anything you've likely witnessed. Consider the rhetorical advantages of keeping a balanced tone and comporting yourself in a way that advances the conversation rather than escalating the discussion into an argument.

My $0.02.

Does poaching BB's like the gradcafe count as a "creative idea"?

Yeah, there's no better way to get off to a good start with a POI than with a little deception.

Or--
How about calling the POI's department and asking members of the administrative staff?
How about calling the DGS and asking what she knows about the POI's plans?
How about finding out the names of some of the POI's graduate students who are ABDs and giving them a call?

Just because you say you have integrity doesn't make it so.

Yeah, there's no better way to get off to a good start with a POI than with a little deception.

Or--
How about calling the POI's department and asking members of the administrative staff?
How about calling the DGS and asking what she knows about the POI's plans?
How about finding out the names of some of the POI's graduate students who are ABDs and giving them a call?

I imagine you also got downvoted because the members of this forum are or have been TAs. I'm a TA, and I found your post fairly offensive. It is enough of a struggle to fit meeting with students, grading assignments, and sometimes giving lectures along with my regular research load (no, it doesn't get lighter), the class I am taking, and my family. On top of this, I have to hunt down people and give them their assignments--perhaps just to be told "thanks for grading my assignment, but I actually know just as much about this as you do!"? As if TAs care about demonstrating their superiority over those who take the course. How petty and immature.

Listen, I don't think it's worth my time or energy to reply to each of your points. You're clearly just not getting it.

I will reply to the one place where you said that what I wrote was "untrue" and quote your earlier post (again): "Also, most of the time I knew what I was doing just as well as the TA anyway." I find that, and your general attitudes towards TAs, disrespectful, for the reasons that OH YEAH specified.

One other general point: you now seem to express high(er) opinions of your professors, but still not of your peers. I don't know what kind of program you are in but I, at least, learn the most from my peers. My professors have the perspective and experience but my peers are the ones who I spend the most time with, and they are the ones who have fresh and exciting ideas. It would be a serious loss if I only interacted with my books and my professors and not with my peers. They are the ones who listen to my ideas that go no where, who help me out when I'm stuck, who read my drafts and comment on my (practice-)practice talks. They help me sort things in my head so that I can talk to my professors after having thought through my problems, and that way I can get better-targeted help from my professors. Your attitude is making it impossible for you to make the most out of your graduate school experience, just because you value some people less than others. ---- I assure you: they can tell, and they do not appreciate it.

Consider this, maybe, as my last contribution to this thread: this is not high school. There are no cliques and we are not out to get you, despite your rhetoric. Other posters have expressed opinion similar to your without being down-voted. Since--again--we have nothing against you, maybe it's time you considered that the way you express yourself is offensive to others. Your view that "everyone has to agree" here or that we are being "childish" is both wrong and unhelpful. Read other posts on this board and you'll find plenty of disagreement. But there are acceptable ways of expressing opinions in a society and there are less acceptable ways. If you consistently use less acceptable ways, don't be surprised if you get called out on it.

Does poaching BB's like the gradcafe count as a "creative idea"?

If you have stated your undergraduate major, your GPA, your GRE scores, your location (current or previous), and other schools to which you've applied, you've provided pieces of information that can be used in conjunction with your name to find you here (if not also elsewhere). From there, a researcher can google your username and be off and running.

More creative searches could be performed based upon your writing sample and SoP.



As the saying goes, "Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me." Ultimately, the level of PERSEC that one practices on line and IRL are judgement calls.

^ Yeah, keep going with the "It's not me, it's them" storyline.

Terrible thing to say:

It's okay. It's not like you had the money to go there anyway."

^ Yeah, keep going with the "It's not me, it's them" storyline.

nechalo--

From your account, it seems to me that he sensed that you weren't that into the research area and that your view of what constitutes a strong work ethic differs from his. (On the latter, I think you would benefit from some soul searching. You put your own interests ahead of your team.)

MOO, you have three courses of action. Go to the professor, take ownership of your conduct, and withdraw your request for a LoR; go to the professor, close the door, clear the air, and then make a decision if you still want him to write you a LoR; or just renew the request for the LoR without additional comment. (Notice, that the three options have in common a face-to-face meeting with the professor.)

Before you select one of these three courses of action or go with another option, I strongly urge you to have a conversation with yourself about those three weeks that you missed. Bluntly, unless someone was pointing a gun at your head while someone else was beating you with a two by four, you made a choice to not go to the lab, to not develop viable options to make up the work that you missed, and to not communicate clearly with your team mates. (It wasn't on them to get back to you, but on you to figure out an option acceptable to them.)

When you have your conversation with yourself, do not flay yourself with a cat of nine tails--when you get to graduate school, professors will do that on a regular basis. Just take ownership of the fact that you made some mistakes and think of ways you can avoid similar errors in the future. Then pick yourself up, dust yourself off, treat yourself to a nice mocha, and set up an appointment with the professor. (Again, a face-to-face meeting.)

LizzieB--

IMO, the first thing you need to do is to stop freaking out. As a fellow perfectionist, I understand fully the impulse to freak out, and to freak out some more. But as a person who has been through a number of misadventures (through no fault of own, of course ), I know that freaking out does not help.

Before turning to specific recommendations, I offer the following general comments. I recommend that you use this experience to fine tune your game plan for giving important presentations. IMO, one should always anticipate that equipment is not going to arrive and/or malfunction. Therefore, multiple back up plans should be in place to handle such contingencies.

As far as transportation goes, cars break down and rentals can be hard to find at the last moment, but what about public transportation options or taking a taxi cab? Or dragooning a friend into giving you a ride? What about a time table for travel to venues that allows for the catastrophic?

Even when one has plans B, C, D, and E, the poop can still hit the fan. You might benefit from a better understanding of how you can mitigate such circumstances. For example, as a perfectionist, you may dread saying anything that sounds like you're making an excuse. However, if you know your audience, you might understand that they're going to cut you some slack.

Now, on to specifics. In retrospect, can you point to any events prior to this week that challenge your view that you "usually get along great" with this professor? I ask because the professor's call to Enterprise sounds like an action one would take if there weren't a lot of trust and that your relationship with her is much shakier than you realize. This exercise may lead to an insight that will help you address the professor's concerns, if not to understand those issues. (Bluntly, the fact that she made this call really makes me wonder What's the rest of the story?)

To your knowledge, is the professor under pressure of her own (is she burdened with a lot of coursework, is she preparing a manuscript for publication, is she up for tenure review)? If such is the case, you may be in a situation where you can either try to help her or, better yet, understand that her umbrage is about her situation, to embrace the suck, and to talk things out with her later.

Also consider the utility of going to her office hours, hat in hand, and saying something along the lines of "I fucked up." If the professor wants to chew you out, accept the chewing without hesitation, comment, or excuse. If, after the chewing ends, there's an opportunity for a "teachable moment," take it. If she chews you up and throws you out of her office, then you've got some more game planning to do.

If she doesn't chew you out and wants to talk, do your best to avoid saying things that sound like you're making excuses. Instead, take ownership of what happened, demonstrate that you know how you'd deal with similar events in the future, and turn the conversation to affirming that you've been on track and that you'll stay on track.

No matter what turn the conversation takes, I emphasize the importance of not making excuses or arguing with her. The only exception would be if she says something outrageously beyond the pale.

HTH.

So...which is it? Are we on GradCafe a clique, or do we not like getting our buttons pushed? That's the thing, though - this comment shows that you realize some of your statements are designed to get a rise out of people, and then you are surprised when people get annoyed.

^ Yeah, keep going with the "It's not me, it's them" storyline.

As someone fairly familiar with the UC system's big schools (attended one as an undergrad, and my father taught at UCSD, so I've seen both sides) I'd just give a warning of my impression of distance between faculty and students. I don't know much about smaller schools, but from what I've heard the relationship between faculty and students is a fairly close one, and if you feel distance already at a small school, I certainly wouldn't expect it to improve at a large school where professors have even more students vying for their attention. That said, if you really fight for a connection, it's definitely possible to feel close to your professors if you make the effort. But the larger the university, the more self-motivated you have to be.

whoops, pulled a rick perry... let me finish my sentence:

Let me know what you think and, for anyone on the other side of this mess, is the transition from small school to big school a difficult one? I actually love the institution I am at right now for the quality of the research, but I have noticed a more defined distance between faculty and their students.

listen,

you said things were great with her until you really dropped the ball this week, so perhaps this conversation she wants to have is really just about what happened in this past week. try not to freak out until you actually hear what she has to say.

i agree with sigaba, however. if your advisor phoned enterprise to see if they have rentals, then my sense is that your relationship with her prior to this week wasn't actually as smooth as you imagine it to be.

i have a very intense advisor myself and i feel like i've been in your situation before. i was doing great with my advisor until i produced a terrible first draft of my MA thesis. once i fixed the problems for the second draft, she decided that the outline for the thesis she had enthusiastically approved months prior no longer worked, so she asked for a full re-write, which i produced to her satisfaction. so between an awful first draft and then a simple reorganization of the second draft, my advisor wasn't sure if she wanted to keep me on as a student anymore. she took responsibility for my poor work by saying she didn't realize she needed to police me this much or to hold my hand through the process. even when the other committee members of my defense thought my work was great, she still congratulated me with back-handed compliments. when i won a highly competitive national fellowship for my dissertation project, she said it was "a great way to end what has been a very difficult year for you." all because of one bad draft and one reorganization of the outline.

it took literally 4 more months of producing flawless work, catching some of her own mistakes before she sent emails out to her colleagues, and covering her classes when she needed to take mat leave in order for her to regain her confidence in me. i now have it. i don't worry about my standing with her anymore. but this took work.

for some particularly intense and perfectionistic profs (even more perfectionistic than any of us), you can get on their shit list very easily. you have two options: take your lumps silently when you fuck up (even if it's a minor fuck up) and work your ass off for far too long to make up for it OR change advisors to someone a little more laid back. i stayed with my advisor because even though her margin for error is unforgivingly small, she was still right about everything that was wrong with my work and she helped me fix it. would other advisors in our department have been happy with my terrible first draft? absolutely. i know that for a fact. but that doesn't mean it wasn't terrible or that i shouldn't have rewritten it.

i guess... listen to what your advisor has to say. if it is as harsh as you fear it will be, you can double-down on your effort, cut back on your sleep, and bust your ass to please her, or you can talk to the DGS about potentially moving on. i'd suggest attempting the ass-busting before the moving-on, at least for a little while.

This word may account for the different experiences among members of this BB who are studying history. IME, an emphasis on learning and skill development have helped me--as well as those undergraduates whom I've advised--to navigate the application process much more than a focus on politics. This is not to say that politics do not matter, they do.

But I think focusing on politics may lead a "this is a crap shoot" mentality. This frame of mind comes at the expense of developing approaches that enable applicants to understand other dimensions of the process. Most notably, the benefits of approaching the process with an air of confidence.

My $0.02.