DrFaustus666

Does anyone know which universities (if any) are top-ranked in automated or computer-assisted analysis of music? I am pipe-dreaming of writing computer programs to perform analysis, but I am wondering if i) it's already old hat; or ii) it's so far-fetched that I'd be laughed at should I put this in a statement of purpose; or iii) some other situation exists that I can't imagine. Thanks for any and all comments. John

Prolixity Well I hope you're right. I've spent most of my adult life slogging away as a government bureaucrat and raising children, i.e., not doing research, or writing papers, or even reading journals (all that much). And, as I said, even though it was a LONG time ago, my undergraduate GPA was not too hot. But now as I near retirement age, I want to do something really worth doing, which for me means original, esoteric, and difficult. And I can't imagine doing it at any but a top-notch school (otherwise there'd be no funding, which is a necessity). Again, I hope you're right, and that a good SOP and writing sample will pull me through.

Thanks Jacib and all who posted. I took the GRE on Friday and got 740-Verbal and 690-Quant. A bit disappointing as I was aiming for top scores to out-balance my low undergraduate GPA (2.79, 36 years ago). Won't know the AW score for a couple of weeks of course. I guess I'll keep studying and take it again in six months or so. There's no time pressure particularly, I can't start a doctorate in earnest until my kids' undergraduate student loans are paid off Again thanks to all for suggestions. The most helpful suggestions were 1: Don't worry about the scores in the practice tests by Barron's, Kaplan's, or Princeton ... all of those were way off for Quantitative, the best I could do was about 610; and 2: identify my own weaknesses and focus on them. All good things to everyone! John

From which university did you earn the 2.92 ? If it's from a very strong school (and one that does NOT inflate grades) then I'd say your application is very competitive. If those conditions are not the case, I'd suggest, as many others have in this forum, that you work your butt off to get the best possible Statement of Purpose; that you explain any mitigating circumstances that contributed to your GPA (for example, if you got mononucleosis in your sophomore year and were basically out of class for six weeks straight); and if you can wrangle a recommendation from someone who's very well known in your field, that would be a help too. Good luck!

Although it was I who originally contradicted you, seadub, I also think you are not a jackass, but rather a very critically thinking pragmatist (you referenced salaries and costs vs benefits, etc) .... But in my opinion you simply hadn't thought of all the ramifications of your blanket statement. Forgive me if I misquote you, I believe your statement was something to the effect of "If you have a 2.7 you're not going to graduate school." Everyone has their own dreams and aspirations. Ideally, if person X wants to be a lawyer in a top New York City law firm, starting off at $150K+ per year, then X should make that decision somewhere around 9th grade, and work for the 3.85+ HS GPA necessary to get him/her into a great pre-law program at a top-20 major university, earn a 3.85+ pre-law GPA, and should begin taking LSAT-prep classes in the summer before his/her junior year of college. And it wouldn't hurt to make the acquaintance, by hook or by crook, of one's local Congressman or Senator of Federal District judge, for a recommendation. The problem is that NOT everyone has such foresight or ambition or tenacity, especially at such a young age. Nonetheless, I still firmly believe that higher learning is available and accessible to those who truly want it ... though I freely admit the path is not easy if you don't resemble my hypothetical person X above.

Seadub: I do not want to start a flame war here. But here's the deal. First, you forgot option c, I didn't work AT ALL in my freshman and sophomore years because I was an arrogant SOB who didn't give a rat's butt about my grades in classes other than those related to my major. No lie: I deliberately failed and had to repeat Freshman English 101 just because I thought the prof was a flaming idiot. That didn't stop me from, later in life, from reconsidering, and working on English on my own time. I studied vocab, literature, poetry, rhetoric, philosophy, drama, etc. etc., and EVENTUALLY developed superior skills in English, if the GRE is any measure (and that is debatable). I scored 800 on the GRE-Verbal, for the record. My point is that one's four undergraduate years in college do not inalterably and immutably determine one's fate. One's early grades do not set in stone tablets whether one is EVER eligible or qualified for advanced studies. I grant you, a 3.5 or better in all subjects the first time around is WISER. But not everybody is wise when they are 18 or 19 years old. Some of us were spoiled brats. But the world is made of many kinds of people, and, if you didn't read it in my previous post: in my undergraduate first two years, though I was 18 yrs old, I had the maturity of about an 8-year-old. Should that disqualify me from EVER aspiring to advanced learning? I say NO. Should it force me to prove myself by taking a harder road? Of course it should! Finally, I'd be a lot more concerned at how my physician did in Medical School, how well he/she is regarded by his/her peers, whether he/she is Board-Certified or not ... than I would about whether or not he/she spent most of his/her freshman and sophomore years screwing around because he/she thought partying was more important than studying.

Add another hopeful to the PhD-Musicology ranks. Hi! I'm John. I wonder what any of you might think about this crazy idea I have. I have an MM in performance (trombone) from many years ago, played freelance for a while, and gave it up for a much less satisfying but far higher paid career in computer programming (now called "information technology.") Anyway, I have over 20 yrs in the field and am considered to be well-above-average as a programmer. Way-back-when, in the mid-1970s when I applied for the performance degree, ETS had an "advanced test" in Music too, believe it or not. I got a 700 (98th percentile) on that test. So here's my crazy idea for a statement of purpose for a PhD in Musicology or Music Theory (more likely the latter). A computer model to analyze reams of music? Trying to find patterns between what's "good" in one genre (say, German opera) and another (say, folk music or popular music)? Am I nuts to attempt to pursue this? My degrees are decades old, though I have become fluent in German in the meantime. Oh yeah, I also teach GRE Prep courses and my own score back in 2005 was 800V 670Q 5.5AW. All of this would be as a post-retirement activity, something to do for fun and maybe a post-retirement career (my age is 57, I work for the government) --- but at heart I'm a lifelong student --- and I really want to do something worth doing in my lifetime besides writing computer programs that track Federal probationers (my job for the last 20 years). Good luck and good wishes to all, John

Indeed it is possible to go to grad school with a 2.7 GPA. Those who recommended getting an MA at a medium-ranked school are right on target in my opinion. My overall GPA was 2.79, though my major was 3.5 and last two years were 3.3. Basically, I was a big-time screwup in my first two undergrad years. I explained this in detail in my statements of purpose etc. I was admitted to every single graduate school I applied to for MA degrees (granted, all were medium-ranked schools). Point is: Don't think you have no chance. The road WILL be rougher for you than for those earlier-maturing students who studied hard all four years of college. But if you can get a 3.75+ in your MA, preferably in a related field, you should be able to be admitted to a doctoral program.

Oh yeah ! I forgot to mention, I'm 57 years old and haven't taken a math course since 1976.

Thanks to all who replied. By way of explanation to those who remarked that I don't need such stellar scores: My (second) MA is in Germanic Studies, and it's true, all they were concerned about was how good my German was (half of the grad students at U-MD are native Germans, and I needed to be able to keep up with those people, and be able to read 300-page books almost equivalent in difficulty with James Joyce's Ulysses, at the rate of about 1 every 10 days)... and I was (barely) good enough in German, but none too good. My term papers got A:content + B:command of German :). WHY I NEED STELLAR SCORES I'm trying to do an interdisciplinary Ph.D (Music Theory (where I have another MA) + Computer Science + Germanic Studies)... To wit, I want to write as the core of my dissertation a computer model that analyzes music. I am a working computer programmer but have only 20 undergrad credits in Computer Science. And it was the Dean of the Graduate School who told me to be considered for such a "designer" Ph.D. in such widely separated disciplines, with little (hard-core!) Computer Science, I'd need some kind of proof that I'm almost equally good quantitatively as I verbally. He also said they'd "prefer" to see a "6" on "AW" but that my 5.5 wasn't bad.

Hi All, Some of you may remember me. I posted a while back after receiving a very disappointing GRE score. To wit I received: March 2005 (when I applied for MA-German) 800-V 670-Q 5.5-AW Oct 2009 (First try for PhD-Interdisciplinary) 640-V 560-Q 4.5-AW On Feb 5, I will take the GRE for the third time. I've been told that I need 720+ in verbal, 750+ in quantitative, and 6.0 (or 5.5 plus really superior SOP) to get into a top-10 interdisciplinary program. The Problem: I've studied 2 to 3 hours every single day since back in October (95% on quant), I've bought every book I can find on GRE (and GMAT) math prep; I even bought used algebra, geometry and business statistics textbooks and worked exercises in them. I STILL GET THE SAME RESULTS ON PRACTICE TESTS: 750-800 V (OK, not so bad) 450-660 Q (what the F*** ????) QUESTION: Is it possible for me to penetrate the 700-Q barrier? I don't think I can study any harder, nor is there any kind of question I've seen in any book that I can't figure out ... If I have enough time. Is there any hope?

Thanks Pamphilia and International. I guess I just have to be very very careful in the early part of the test. I've reviewed all my math till I'm absolutely sick of it and know all of those formulas and sneaky ETS schemes, as well as the recommendations of Kaplan, Princeton Review, and Barron's cold. Again thanks for your help.

You could call the admissions office, tell them your dilemma and ask their advice. I don't think your verbal scores matter as much as your quantitative, and your Q was close to the national median for Engineering majors (704 if memory serves right).

I don't know what to tell you, except that you are not the only person in your situation. Mine is similar, though I've never been to an Ivy school: I know I need top scores (700+, preferably 750+) in BOTH to pursue a multidisciplinary Ph.D. program (I want to build computer models for analysis of music) at a top school .... I took the GRE 5 yrs ago for my MA (Germanic studies) and got 800V/680Q ... and so I figured I would be OK with a bit of math prep. So, I took the GRE again just a month ago and got very disappointing, no, shocking scores of 640V and 560Q .... which has me in a panic! HOW do I get my quant score up that much ??? (I choked on the verbal ... spent too long on one of the reading comp groups and suddenly found myself with 2 mins left and 8 questions unanswered, so I'm not too worried about the verbal) ... But I've studied every piece of info I can find on quantitative, and my practice test scores keep bouncing all over the place .... sooooo ... hang in there, good luck, and know that you are not alone! John

I took the (real) test five years ago and got 800-V and 680-Q with NO PREPARATION AT ALL. I took the (real) test again a month ago and 640-V and 560-Q. Needless to say I was/am shocked and distressed. I've bought the Kaplan, Barron's, ETS, and Princeton Review books, and used Powerprep. My verbals are all 700+ with test materials, but my quantitative has been anywhere from 480 to 710. I am totally confused and bewildered. DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANY RELIABLE --- EMPHASIS ON RELIABLE -- WAY TO PREDICT ONE'S SCORE BEFORE TAKING THE TEST? Any help appreciated.

I took the (real) test five years ago and got 800-V and 680-Q with NO PREPARATION AT ALL. I took the (real) test again a month ago and 640-V and 560-Q. Needless to say I was/am shocked and distressed. I've bought the Kaplan, Barron's, ETS, and Princeton Review books, and used Powerprep. My verbals are all 700+ with test materials, but my quantitative has been anywhere from 480 to 710. I am totally confused and bewildered. DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANY RELIABLE --- EMPHASIS ON RELIABLE -- WAY TO PREDICT ONE'S SCORE BEFORE TAKING THE TEST? Any help appreciated.

If you really have no option of retaking it ... how about your admissions essay (make sure the English is perfect---not good---perfect!) and your recommendations ? If you are able to get somebody REALLY strong or well known (say, a Senator or Congressman) write you a recommendation, I don't think those scores would stand in your way.

Contrary to the assertion that "people who get high verbal scores also get high quantitative scores" .... I got 800-V, 650-Q, and 5.5-AW. I did get into several solid grad schools, did not try for ivy leagues. I just wanted to dispel the idea that everybody with good scores in V also gets excellent Q scores. (Yes I know a 650 is not bad unless you're applying for EE or Astrophysics, etc). And I also agree, the Quantitative is not "easy" ..... unless you got A's in Engineering Calculus and one or two other math courses as an undergraduate. PS: on side note, I applied to both Kaplan and Princeton Review to work as a tutor, and was rejected by both because my quantitative score was too low.