DrFaustus666

nanny second

police state

Yes, I was referring to the computer-based test, which is the only form of the GRE available here in the USA. You DO receive your Verbal and Quantitative scores immediately, right on the computer screen. I believe it is the Analytical Writing score that holds up the process. It's at least three weeks, up to five I'm told, after you take the test that you actually receive your letter in the mail (with all three scores). John

ETS, at least in the USA, is notoriously slow in sending out official reports. I'd suggest 4 to 5 weeks before 10 December, i.e., around 1 November. Bist du ein Deutscher/eine Deutsche? Ich studiere Germanistik. Good luck, John

intextrovert wrote: I just think you misunderstand what the Lit GRE is and what's on it. First of all, there's as much theory on the test as primary text, which you seem to think is tangential to an English PhD. It's not. It's central and has always been central - you're always using some sort of theory when you write about literature, so as a serious academic you have to be able to do so self-consciously. Branwen wrote: Isn't the basic knowledge the fact that most PhD applicants to English Lit MUST have at LEAST 30 hours of upper division work in English? (i.e. a Major in their undergrad. or an MA?) You're both right of course. Intextrovert, "misunderstand" is clearly the right word. Branwen, "at least 30 hours of upper division work" should be a minimum, yes I agree wholeheartedly. Probably I should have investigated XYZ university's program aims more carefully before deciding to attend that university based on (1) price (in-state tuition); (2) convenient location---10 minutes by auto from my home, where I still have a full-time 40-hour/week day job and my childrens' undergraduate tuition (approx 75,000 US$) to pay)---and (3) the fact that XYZ-U routinely schedules graduate classes in the evenings, in order to allow the teaching assistants to teach lower-level undergraduate classes during daylight hours. I've been reliably informed that ABC-university (located probably 20 miles/32km from my home, and far more expensive than XYZ university) focuses much more on close reading of traditional German literature at an advanced level. By the way, I DO see the point of studying all sorts of influences in the rapidly flattening world (as Thomas Friedman so aptly puts it). But something deep inside me still says that Shakespeare is better literature, and more deserving of my close study, than the pop-up adverts on the Internet --- even if those adverts are an expression and reflection of modern culture. So my dissatisfaction is a combination of ignorance, economics, and some kind of fundamental dislike of globalization--an old man's grumbles.

I have to put in my two cents, and I bet it'll be an unpopular opinion. Maybe I should just shut up and let the world turn as it sees fit. I am in the middle of an MA program in Germanic Studies, 25 years after finishing my first master's degree, in music (performance). When I signed up for Germanic Studies, I thought I'd be reading everything Goethe and Schiller and Heine and Marx and Freud and Kafka and Günther Grass ever wrote. It turns out that the only thing really German about the program I'm in is that the classes are all taught in German and the readings are (almost) all in German. But "Germanic Studies" is, at my august institution, really more like Cross-Cultural-Studies/Women'sStudies/QueerStudies/TurksLivingInGermanyStudies/PostColonialism/PostStructuralism/NewHistoricism/PostThisIsmAndPostThatIsm. When I mentioned this in class once (big mistake!) the professor answered that there was nothing stopping me from reading Schiller and Goethe if I want to, but "Cultural Studies is where it's at" (yes, the professor said those words in English). So, I'm not sure I'll ever finish this MA program---for various reasons, not just the above reason. I'm not even sure why I'm writing this ... I certainly don't wish to put extra burdens on anyone else ... but it seems to me if your degree is to read "XXXX in English" there ought to be a certain minimum familiarity with English literature AND coursework ought to focus on English literature. Certainly it's appropriate to study all the trends in literary theory and criticism and relate them back to literature. But to abandon the requirement of some familiarity with literature seems to me to be throwing out the baby with the bathwater (for non-native speakers of English, this colloquial saying means "going waaaaayyyyy too far" with a good thing, until it becomes a bad thing. OK enough said. I'll probably generate 20 or 30 red marks for this, and thus lose my current "good" reputation on this forum, but it seems to me there ought to be some minimum standard of knowledge in the subject area: not necessarily a GRE Subject Test, mind you ... but the gradual erosion of the various subject tests seems symptomatic of something larger, at least in liberal arts. My very personal and probably unpopular but honest opinion. John

You must have taken Powerprep II .... which does give a range of scores, not an exact score. If you plan to take the GRE before August 2011, you need to download Powerprep (the OLD version, NOT Powerprep II). John

I should have added there's no doubt you'll be accepted by at least a half-dozen top-20 schools if you choose to apply there .... it's the highest echelons that are so hard to predict. And your question: generalist vs specialist .... is one that dogs professionals in mid-career too. I don't know about biological sciences but I do know that engineers in particular can command top salaries for a few years because of superior expertise in some narrow niche ... then suddenly find themselves unemployed and looking for any job. It's a tough world, and I don't have any good answers. But good luck to you in any event.

Well said, "adaptations" ! If you read the posts here, "misery," you'll see that some people with considerably stronger statistics have been rejected from top 5-10 schools, while others with lower numbers have gotten in. It's exactly as "adaptations" said, the devil is in the details.

Txonet, I doubt a low Verbal score will keep you out of an M.A. program if your compositions are super. You said you went to one of the best music schools in the world; if that's in Boston, it would be New England Conservatory? If you went to N.E.C., earned a 3.89 and your composition teachers say your compositions are superior, I doubt you need to worry about it. (I am a former music graduate student myself, ..., a performer (trombone) ..., and all they cared about at the graduate level was how well I played. .... I strongly suspect for composers the rule will be the same ... Harvard-Princeton-Stanford might ask you to explain your V-score, but .... hey ...) Good luck, John

I just checked the stats in Powerprep: In 2002-2003, a 740 was 53% percentile for Computer and Information Sciences majors. In all probability, a 740 is a somewhat lower percentile now, 7 years later. I'd try to get your quant up into the 770 or above range. Remember that a full 6 percent of all GRE takers receive an 800 on quant.

The Grundprinzip (fundamental notion) stems from my own possibly overactive imagination. In every other respect, graduate admissions seem to resemble undergraduate admissions, albeit at a higher level. I could be totally wrong, but it's one of those things I always assumed as an axiom.

I don't know about medical schools specifically, but I have read that in general, in the USA, when the admission committee has not heard of a particular university, or if that university is somewhat low-ranked, then the admission committee puts more emphasis on the applicant's full picture, particularly the research and the GRE scores. I have no idea why not many students in your university may not want to study abroad. Possibly they think they cannot get into universities outside China? Or maybe they just want to remain near home and family, and that is certainly understandable. What is important though CenturySun, is not what your fellow students do; what is important is what you want to do. If you choose to take "the road less traveled" (from an American poet, I forget his name), then you should travel that road with all your will and ambition and fortitude. Good luck to you. Regarding UMAB, a friend of mine is a nurse-practitioner who earned her certification from UMAB; she says it's a wonderful and friendly place. Cheers, John

It's always a good idea to have a couple of backup schools, certainly. But from what you've described, if you apply to 10 top-20 schools, you'll be admitted to at least 2 or 3 of them, I would think. In my own immediate geographic area (Washington, DC), I think you'd have a good chance at getting into George Washington University or the University of Maryland at Baltimore ("UMAB" where the medical school is located) ... also, there is a large Chinese community in Washington, DC, as you may or may not know. The top two medical schools in this geographic area, Johns Hopkins University and Georgetown University, are both notoriously hard to get into, especially for people who live around here ... so, since you are not somebody who lives near here, you might give them a shot too.

centurysun: I agree. I myself thought as I was reading your post, "Now here is a fellow who really wants to succeed." I agree with this too. You never know. The reason I felt I had to say that the very topmost universities would be difficult is: there are people who come in here with absolutely no idea how difficult it is to get into those top 4 or 5 universities; those people simply aren't aware that for every one person accepted into the very topmost universities, 10 or 20 more very bright and qualified people are rejected every year. But definitely try for one or two top-20 universities, especially those whose departments seem to match your own interests most closely.

A Verbal 620 and Quant 800 are both very good scores and most native Americans would be perfectly happy with those scores. The AW 4.0 is a little low but most universities don't use that score anyway; they rely on writing samples and statements of purpose. You didn't say which U.S. schools you want to attend. I would say that the very top-tier universities (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford) are probably out of reach for you; but many less famous universities are possible (most state universities, I would think). When you apply, ask someone to proofread your statement of purpose and any writing samples. Or use a computer with spell-check if you have one! I noticed a number of spelling errors and some grammatical errors in your post. Good luck! John

I don't know anything about Public Health at all. But it sounds like a field where very good but not necessarily superlative scores in both areas would be expected ... which for PhD programs at those top-ranked schools means a minimum of 700 in each test---for most people. (George W. Bush and people with connections and "legacy" relatives similar to his excepted.) If you got 720-Q before you shouldn't have much difficulty pushing that up to 750. Same thing with the 640-V. You ought to be able to touch the low 700's without a tremendous amount of effort. Certainly if your application is truly outstanding in some other way then the AdComms might tend to cut you some slack on the GRE, so I've been told. So, my gut feeling to the question "Should I retake the GRE?" is "probably, and it shouldn't require a monumental effort on your part to improve your scores."

I read the entire study, and yes indeed, it seems to corroborate this post. The moral of the story is still, IMHO, the average test taker (someone who hopes for an 1100-1150 total for example) should front-load to a certain extent. Test takers with high or very high expectations (people who hope for 1300 or above total) should not front-load, because, as the study says, front-loading takes time away from the most difficult questions, which appear near the end of the test. The following is directly out of the link T.D. provided (emphasis is mine): "Using simulated data, Steffen and Way (1999) showed that a string of guesses at the end is likely to have more severe consequences for higher ability than for lower ability examinees, because incorrect answers are more at odds with the model’s expectations for the higher ability examinees." When I said "concentrate very carefully to be sure I get the first six or seven questions right" I did NOT mean that I should spend four minutes trying to decide which is larger, Column A: one-and-one-sixth, or Column B: one-point-six ....(FYI this exact question is in the Powerprep set and often appears as question one) I DID mean that I should be darn sure that I don't accidentally confirm the wrong answer (A) by a slip of the fingers. Once an incorrect answer is confirmed, it's gone forever; as are my chances for getting an 800 in Quant in this example I am not really contradicting you, T.D., rather, I'm pointing out that your warning appears to me to be aimed more at people who wish for and expect to receive high scores---and admittedly, there are many such people on this site, myself included. John

I've taken it twice in the last five years and both times the scores matched exactly. Also, I've never heard of anyone whose scores didn't match.

I may well be the oldest person on this forum. I am 58, and still have familial obligations (my childrens' undergraduate educations) to finish paying for before I can even begin in earnest. Currently I'm a part-time graduate student in German Literature, and hope to finish that M.A. degree ... and I feel absolutely like one of the (20-somethings to early 30-somethings) gang ... though one 25-ish fellow student and friend does insist on addressing me with the "formal" form of "you" (Sie) in German, even after I've repeatedly told him that the "familiar" form (du) is fine. And indeed, I say du to him. After that, even though I'll likely be over 60 years old, I am firmly committed to life-long learning and hope to fulfill my dream of earning a PhD at a top institution, then entering academia as a professor (adjunct professor, who cares at this point?): a dream which was frustrated for literally decades by the needs to support a family, have a house in the suburbs, etc. You're never too old in my opinion. And if I AM too old, they'll have to tell me to my face. John

MusicForFun: I have the NOVA book and intend to work every single problem in the entire book, and I agree with you, it is more comprehensive than any other book I've seen. Though interestingly, a few of the so-called Very Hard problems are easier for me than the so-called Medium problems. Engineer: I am considerably handicapped in math for several reasons. (1) The last math course I took was in 1970-1971 in my freshman year of college (I'm one of the 1% of all U.S. graduate students who are over age 50); (2) the most advanced math course I ever took was H.S. Calculus (1969-1970). For the GRE, I studied for almost a year and only improved my Quant score from 670 to 690; (3) one really DOES lose short-term learning with age. So, while a few weeks review might be enough for you (whom I presume to be an Engineering student under age 30?), it's not enough for an old fart like me Balderdash: Your insight that I should "understand what bit of knowledge the question is testing" makes a near-perfect hand-in-glove complement to my friend's idea of "find the back door" ... the two bits of advice reinforce one another and simplify one another. Thanks to all for your comments!

(slightly off topic) Hi Balderdash, I see what you mean about reinforcing words that one half-knows and and so on. But at the highest levels of the test .... and you of all people (I remember your combined score) ought to know this: there are subtleties that a test-taker simply must know in order to get the top score. For example, just for giggles, I took Powerprep II online the other day ... ETS's introduction to the "new" Aug 2011 GRE ... and discovered to my chagrin that I did not know the difference between "laconic" and "taciturn" ... (It was all for naught as it turns out. Powerprep II only gives a RANGE of scores: I scored 690-790 on both tests. A hundred point range on each test ... that's the difference between Harvard-Princeton-Yale and most of the fifty state universities. ) To the Original Poster: Balderdash's point is well taken: in a very short amount of time, probably the best strategy of all is to concentrate on words you've heard, sort-of recognize, but can't easily define. Sorry if I led you astray. John

The ETS website maintains that the reported score represents the same level of academic ability from year to year ..., e.g., a 720 Quant in 1999 represents the same level of math ability as a 720 Quant today ... though the percentile may change, due to variations in the makeup of the test-taking population. That said, an 11% change DOES seem like a lot, given that almost 500,000 people take the GRE every year. On the other hand, it seems almost universally accepted that the AW is the least important part of anyone's score ... unless it's very low (3.0 or less) combined with great pre-prepared writing samples, in which case it suggests the applicant may have hired somebody to write the writing sample.

That depends, I think, on where you are now. First and foremost, you haven't got a lot of time. You cannot significantly increase your vocabulary between now and September first. With an estimated 40,000+ words in English, it's just not possible. That being said, if you're scoring in the low to mid-range, i.e., up to about 550 or so on verbal, then yes, roots and stems may well help you out. If you're getting 680-700 then you don't need the roots and stems, you already know them all, even if you think you don't. So, learning a couple of hundred more recondite and esoteric new words between now and Sept 1 might indeed not have a deleterious effect on your score, indeed they might even change your Weltannschauung (yes, you'll find that word in a good English dictionary though it is a German word) ... but they might not help either.