DrFaustus666

Thank you. That's what I wanted to know! John

"pretty much wasted my life eh?" Boy, you're a right ray of sunshine, aren't you? as the Brits say. Well ... you've hit a nerve and now I'm going to do my best to prove you wrong. I'm currently enrolled in an MA in Germanic Studies at a probably Top-30 University, (4.0 average) already have another MA from that same university (3.8 avg), and the Chairman of the German Department has already told me they'd be pleased to accept me for a PhD in my current field (Germanic Studies). But I'm setting my sights higher yet. I want to go to a very prestigious school, in a related but multidisciplinary field. And you MIGHT be right, it MIGHT be futile, but, dammit, I'm going to let THEM reject me, not give up because YOU say I should. By the way, if you'd like to meet somebody even more pessimistic than yourself, there are other posters on this forum with whom I could arrange an introduction if you like. So, damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead.

Too late about Kaplan's "Advanced Math" book ... I bought it several months ago ... and actually thought of making a project out of finding all the typos in it ... then I got frustrated and decided it wasn't worth the trouble. And in my checkered career, I have been an editor myself, and I agree, this book is one of the most poorly edited I've ever seen Thanks ! John

Thanks. Re the guarantee. No, you don't get your money back, but you can keep taking the class over and over again until you get the 1300. There are also a lot of restrictions. You must have completed all the pre-class and post-class homework, you must attend all classes and do all the work they tell you, and you must actually take the GRE within 6 months (I think) of finishing the class. Even so, if someone comes in with the median score of approximately 480V and 570Q (1050 total) and increases his/her total score by 250 points, that is very significant indeed. For myself, I'm trying to find any way to score above 1500, preferably above 1550, which I hope will offset all of the many serious flaws in what will be my application. (Low GPA from an unknown undergraduate institution, 30+ years since I graduated from that institution, no publications, no hot-shot references, and on and on and on.) Even that may well be a narcissistic pipe-dream. Many posters have reported 3.8+ GPAs from excellent undergraduate universities, pubs, internships, great recommendations, very good GREs, and STILL haven't made it into top ten programs. Of course, some few (George W. Bush for example) have made it into big-name institutions with only so-so numbers, but I always suspect they must be the sons or daughters of alums, or of Senators, or have some other non-quantifiable advantage. Again thanks for writing. John

touché ! Fact is, I can't really afford it ... but I'm not getting any younger and I really do have a strong ego need (as you astutely divined !) to prove to myself that I'm not a dummy. And, I'd like to do that not by means of a test score, but by earning a graduate degree from a top institution, then using that degree to do something more useful than my current job, which is writing ad hoc data warehouse reports for the Washington bureaucracy. Your psychoperspicacity is uh, formidable, Liszt, no question.

Hi all, For any of you who may remember me, I'm still not really satisfied with my most recent GRE score (740V 690Q). Please, before anyone tells me that my undergraduate grades are more important and my GRE is already very good---my undergrad GPA of 2.7 from a 2nd-tier school STINKS---and I earned my BA in 1974, waay before most of youse people were born---or my letters or recommendation are really important---those are likely to be lukewarm too because of my personal situation, it's taken me five years to get half way thru a (second) master's degree. All of my 1st MA profs are retired, except one who died, and one of my 2nd MA profs recently retired. So I'm putting all my eggs into hopes of getting a really superior, not just very good, but superior, stellar GRE score---hoping against hope that a top-notch school will forgive all if I explain the situation and show them I'm not a dummy and I'm not lazy, I've just had a lot more than my share of life-problems coupled with early immaturity. To wit, regarding http://www.greprep.org/ They're VERY expensive and intense, but they actually guarantee a 1300 score even if you come in sub 1000 .... I talked to a rep on the phone. They claim to have a very extensive and accurate diagnostic system plus an individually tailored instruction course plus TONS of required and individually targeted homework ... The guy I talked to said he thought there'd be no problem for me, if I take their course, to hit the upper 700's, maybe even an 800, in Quantitative, which is my Achilles heel. He claimed they regularly get people who come in with 500Q and after their course, score over 700Q. Has anyone used this company, and if so, what did you think? John

Ms Elf ... thanks for the nod. Many many people on this forum, in other threads, have also recommended Powerprep, so I can't take any particular credit. As to obsession ... yes, I feel the same way as you ... I'm watching this drama, mostly from the sidelines (I don't want any mud thrown in my direction if I can help it)... but I'm eagerly following this instead of working.

DAAD is an amazing organization. Also, for any of you who don't mind coming down just a little in the world from Columbia and Princeton and Harvard German ... the University of Maryland has a small but amazingly good program in German. Right now there are only undergraduate students, PhD students, and one MA student (me). Funding seems to be unlimited and the student/faculty ratio is about 4 to 1. Head of Department (Dr. Peter Beicken) earned his Ph.D. at Stanford ... and is a heck of a nice guy to boot.

Original Poster, BrianM: If you don't have the Powerprep program, downloadable free from ETS, you should get it. I just now checked and here are ETS statistics about GRE scores for the year 2003-2004: For "Intended Graduate Major: Psychology (not otherwise specified)" MA: 25th percentile Verbal 380 Quant 410 75th percentile Verbal 510 Quant 580 PhD: 25th percentile Verbal 420 Quant 470 75th percentile Verbal 560 Quant 640 Of course, these are scores of people who took the exam, not necessarily scores of those who were actually admitted into programs but it still gives you some idea of where to aim, IMHO, somewhere around 600 for each portion for "better" programs. BTW: I use often use "modicum" conversationally, meaning "a small or minimal amount." Good luck, John

Oh my God! The first time I heard Der Erlkönig (Schubert's famous setting of it of course) ... it sent chills up my spine ... and it still does !

Ditto from Dr Faustus ! Remember what Mephistopheles [ the devil ] said in his soliloquy, "From time to time I like to shoot the shit with the Old Man [ i.e., God ]. It's a right pretty thing that such a great Lord speaks so decently, even to the Devil." (End of Prologue to Faust: my translation) Point being, you've made it to Parnassus or Paradise or whatever you want to call it. Thumbs up!

There is a long blog on the Analytical Writing section. http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2010/01/analytical-writing.html I actually found the above referenced URL right here on gradcafe.com, some months ago. But here it is again. Bottom line: Most hard-science programs don't put too much weight on the A/W section, especially if you're an international student who's not a native speaker of English. ... Off topic: (And interestingly .... they say the Verbal section is WAAAYYY too hard. As a liberal arts/fine arts major, I'd say, yes, the Verbal section is a tough test, but its difficulty is needed to discriminate who is who in the very topmost level programs: e.g., Ivy League Writing / English / Poly Sci etc ... When everybody applying has a 4.0 in all their English courses, half of them have published short stories or poetry or essays, and the vast majority of them wrote excellent writing samples, how else DO you tell ???)

Hi Seadub, Part 1. Thank you ! for your reply. YOU DID IT FOR ME. I believe you identified the missing link that I need to get my coveted 90+ percentile score on the Quantitative portion of the GRE. I've spent most of my free time in the last several days doing exactly what you suggested: I've gone back to old problems, and looked for the TRICK in the problem, for the peculiarity, even eccentricity(!) that transforms an apparently difficult problem into a moderate- or even easy-level problem. I've learned it: Simplify exponents, look for and factor-out relationships between coefficients, look for distorted drawings of triangles (it looks like isoceles, but can't be because of the lengths of the legs), watch out for totally extraneous information in word problems, etc., etc., etc. You're obviously a very smart person, well above the average graduate student, at least in quantitative, and I'd suspect, probably in verbal & writing too. Part 2. After thanking you for your very insightful remarks, which I'm really psyched to believe may help me increase my Q-score by 50 or more points, may I make a constructive and friendly criticism of your posts ? I believe you've hurt a number of people's feelings, and annoyed many more, by your ultra-matter-of-fact comments. As one post remarked (sorry, I can't remember who it was), it's not what you say that causes people heartburn ... it's how you say it. I'm telling you this as a friend, because I suspect your personal life might be a bit lonely. Try to say and write things in a less direct and more empathic way. Not everybody is a math whiz. Not everybody has a vocabulary of 40,000+ words. Not everybody is academically gifted. But everyone DOES have gifts, some in completely different areas. I've researched the subject for example, and discovered that social workers, who have a low-paid, largely thankless, difficult, and sometimes VERY demanding job --- Social workers --- Do not (as a group!--there are certainly many individual exceptions)--score in the upper 10th percentile on the GRE. But they are still wonderful human beings and make essential contributions, even live-saving contributions, to the society in which we live. So, my unasked-for advice for you, and please take it as constructive, friendly, and well-meaning .... is to try to see things from the other person's perspective ... try to understand every person you meet as a human being with feelings, hopes, dreams, and fears FIRST ... THEN look at their academic achievements, their IQ, their GPA, their alma mater, whatever. Wishing you well ! And again, THANK YOU for supplying me with the missing puzzle piece which I think will really help me. John

BEGIN RANT This is not advice, but rather an expression of sympathy plus a BIG rant! Some of you may have seen my posts about the math section of the GRE under other threads. CoffeeCoffeeBuzzBuzz, I also had a very poor undergraduate background in math (one 3-credit course entitled "Math for Teachers of Subjects Other Than Math") and it was MUCH easier than my high school math was. (I made it to Calculus I in high school.) Born in 1952, I am also quite old compared to most of you, but I want to earn a PhD before I die. To wit, I have done EVERYTHING that people have recommended short of hiring a private tutor: (1) bought every GRE book I can find and worked every math problem in every book until I can understand every nuance of every problem -- I even found about 100 typographical errors in Kaplan's "advanced" Math book ("Your Only Guide to an 800"). (2) made flash cards, memorized triangles (30-60-90, 45-45-90, 3-4-5, 5-12-13), circles, arcs inscribed in circles, concentric circles, calculated x "in terms of y", a baker's dozen other formulae, including the formulae for areas of all kinds of simple geometric figures, "the work formula", high school algebra formulae including the slope-intercept form, the point-slope form, how to find an x- and y- intercept, how to find and graph an equation given only two points, how to find and graph an equation given only the slope and one point, how to find a standard deviation, and how to calculate combinations and permutations. After several months of assiduously doing all of this, I still scored only a 690 on the "Quantitative Reasoning" portion of the test. That's not a bad score, certainly ---- but I'd scored a 670 previous to that with NO PREPARATION AT ALL. I DON'T GET IT. WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO GET INTO THE 700 (preferably 750+) RANGE ON THE QUANTITATIVE SECTION??? (Rhetorical question. I don't really expect an answer, but any suggestions are welcome.) CCBB: I'm in the same boat as you, I want to score high on Q and am at my wit's end. END RANT

Hi Slee, Others have said this, and I'd like to add myself to the roster of those who've said it already: You have an amazingly good attitude and optimistic approach ... and I think you'll end up getting into a good program somehow, by hook or by crook ... just because you're so dedicated, so humble (in a good way!), and so determined. Again, all the best of luck to you --- you deserve it ! John

In my undergraduate years I roomed with a jazz trumpet player and a jazz trombonist, as well as another straight (classical) trombonist such as myself. There was a constant war between those of us who liked the ultra-late-Wagnerian sound of Mahler and R. Strauss, and **those guys** who liked Maynard Ferguson, Stan Kenton, etc. God this recording brings back those days so many years ago!

(also from a former performance major: trombone) This link needs a warning that the listener should absolutely not attempt to listen to this while eating, drinking, or holding anything breakable, because he/she risks choking to death or breaking something valuable due to uncontrollable hysterical sidesplitting laughter ! WHAT A FANTASTIC POST ! ! ! ! !

IF ... and it's a big IF .... the current paper test resembles the past paper tests, 10 of which are available from ETS for about $20.00, and on amazon.com (used) for as low as $5.00 .... the paper test's problems are easier but there are more questions ... I consistently score LOWER on (reprints of old) paper tests than I do on either POWERPREP or the real GRE. So, I'm sorry to say, but I don't think the paper test will help you out. I'd say, pay the bucks to get the neuropsychological documentation (my ex-wife and I did that for our daughter) and get the time accomodation you need ! Yes, it's expensive. It cost us $2500, and that was ten years ago, but it enabled her to graduate from high school, and now, to attend a (middle-ranked) undergraduate college. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ! whatever you decide !

I've said it before, and now I feel I must say it again. When graduate school admissions committees choose students to accept and/or fund AND when all of us choose a physician, lawyer, accountant, consultant, or any other kind of service person---in these selections we should look at the whole picture. Does the physician have a state board certification? Does he/she have any malpractice judgments against him/her? What do his/her colleagues and patients (customers, etc) have to say about him/her? Will he/she grant you a (free or essentially free!) interview before you are treated by him/her? How does he/she react if you tell them you'd like a second opinion? And on and on and on. NOT EVERYBODY has the maturity or judgment to buckle down and decide to "do whatever it takes" to earn a 3.8+ average with all AP courses in high school, then repeat their 3.8+ with all "honors seminars" in a prestigious undergraduate college. That does not and should not exclude them irrevocably from a successful professional career. Though I freely add, a consistent record of low achievement merits examination. But it does, or at least should NOT merit summary rejection.

OMIGOD I forgot the most important thing, which Branwen mentions: read, read, read, read, read, and then read some more. Carry a notebook of newly discovered words with you whereever you go. No matter what your politics are, look up the old articles (editorials, mainly) by William F. Buckley (a rabid conservative) --- you can hate his ideas/politics, just as I do ---- but his vocabulary is phenomenal.

I can't say which course is best, as I've never taken one. But I've bought every book on the subject of GRE (my own weakness is math). In my opinion, Barron's book is the best of the bunch for verbal. Its vocabulary section is huge and well annotated. By the way, I've taken the GRE three times in the last five years, and scored above 700-Verbal twice out of the three times.

Thanks, and to you too!

Yes, Schenkerian analysis is exactly what I had in mind. And yes, I know it's probably a 10-year project to automate --- but I'm a working programmer with many years under my belt, and will soon be of retirement age, and I want to do something really noteworthy before I kick off this mortal coil. John

Thank you again Jose, I checked out the URL and will look at it in depth in the next week or two. I'm not a composer, or rather, all my attempts at composition have been dismally derivative. (Although, as an ex-trombonist and once-decent orchestrator, I do still have in the back of my head the dream of writing a really good trombone concerto, that would be first-rate music, but still technically within the reach of the average college orchestra and student soloist.) The kind of thing I originally had in mind was the Bach Chorale analysis you referred to. Though I had more ambitious plans. I'd like to write a program that would analyze a wide variety of music, looking for patterns, melodic, harmonic, structural, etc: the idea being to find heretofore undiscovered relationships between . . . God knows what? "The influence of Ravel on The Beatles" or "Tropes of Gregorian chants in the music of Elliot Carter". What I'd really like to know is "Has that ground already been covered?" If so, then I'd like to head into less well charted seas (yes I know I mixed metaphors ). Cheers, John

Hi Jose, Thank you! Yes, indeed I was talking about tonal analysis ... and I imagined it's probably either outdated, or technology is nowhere close yet. Too bad. Hmmmm.... sound and acoustics, eh? That's worth looking into. Again, thanks for your response. John