DrFaustus666

This system, while a bit cruel and unfair, does make sense. Many programs get 400+ applications per season. If you were a professor on the adcom, would you honestly carefully read each and every application? No. You would sort through them to try to find the most promising applicants. GRE scores and GPAs are quick and easy indicators. The situation may be even worse than the above snippet indicates. There was a poster on this site some time ago, maybe six months ago, who had worked in the admissions office of a big university -- that person stated that it was HER job, as a student-secretary-person, to make the first cut (i.e., look at GPA, GRE, class rank, etc., and split the applications into two piles: one for further review, one for "rejection letters"---which will be sent out, oh, four or five months hence.). My point is, some part-time student worker may be able to eliminate your application from consideration. Of course it's not that way at all universities or in all programs, but do you want to take that chance?

Yes, you do have to do the conversions, but if I remember correctly, they always give you the formula. E.g., the problem will state, usually in parentheses (1 foot = 12 inches), (1 yard = 3 feet = 36 inches), (1 mile = 5280 ft), (1 meter = 39.36 inches), (one inch = 2.54 cm). Not to worry. John

Hi original poster, See joro's post above. He/she has it absolutely correct. Even a BSCS is a major endeavor. Having taken 30 undergrad credit hours in CS as a non-degree-seeking student in a medium-high ranked university (for CS), I can tell you this is not something to enter lightly. If you do have some informal CS background, that will be a plus, but there are some undergrad courses ("data structures", "computer architecture," etc., that are very difficult courses, even for the "normal" CS undergraduates who have all the lower level prerequisites. And those two courses, among others, would be absolute prerequisites for entrance into any respectable MSCS program, I would think. So, I'd say, talk to a prof in CS and discuss your ideas. I'm not saying it's impossible for you, but I am saying it appears that you will be traveling upwards on a steep hill. John

Thanks to all who replied ! I've decided I'll take a very conservative approach: I will proofread, comment, etc., even offer suggestions re: structure and content if indicated. I will not write a single word of text that she could incorporate as her own, I will not accept money, and I won't provide so many ideas that she essentially becomes a secretary. Yes, she made it clear she's perfectly happy to pay me to write the entire thing, including statement of purpose and writing sample, top to bottom----and then submit it as her own work. BTW---As a student of German, I've asked native Germans to proofread MY work too, and the most helpful input to me has been "look at this sentence and tell me what's wrong" ... and if I can't see it immediately, then I go back to the Duden series of grammar and style books ... and I LEARN something.

Hi Has anyone else been offered money to write a writing sample for someone else? This happened to me two days ago. My gut reaction was to refuse. In the end I agreed to critque this person's paper, but not write it, and then only as a favor, not for compensation. The person is a non-native speaker of English who's lived in the USA for ten years. I am a native speaker, and have worked as a technical writer. Thoughts, anyone? Should I refuse her altogether? I can't ethically write her paper for her, either for money or gratis. But I wonder if I should help at all? She swears to me that "all of her friends (fellow foreign grad students studying in the USA) paid Americans" to write their SOPs and writing samples for them. Any opinions would be appreciated. John

Thank you so much, Milestones, for taking so much time and for putting so much effort into answering my questions. I shall look up the techniques you suggest for increasing working memory, which indeed IS the problem I have with the Quant problems. I say this in retrospect, it hadn't occurred to me until you pointed out the relationship between executive functioning, short-term memory, and the Quant portion of the test. I have not looked at your profile, I don't know if you're male or female, but if you're a male, my heartiest handshake and thanks for taking so much time to elucidate this subject; if you're a woman, a big platonic hug and kiss on the cheek. John p.s., Good luck in all your endeavors, too. As I said, I haven't looked at your profile, but I'm sure from reading your posts that you'll do wonderfully in whatever career path you take--and I'll even be so so bold as to suggest academia to you--my sense is that you'd be a great teacher, mentor, adviser, and colleague in some top-notch university. Take care, John

Thank you for your reply. I found your entire post highly interesting and read it through four or five times before replying. Thank you also for your compliment. I think "curious" is the operative word in my case BTW. I've always read everything I could get my hands on, and find myself frustrated with PBS's and NPR's documentaries: not ENOUGH information, coverage is not in-depth enough for me. I also know I'm an extreme outlier, if for no other reason than I'm over 50 years old, while most GRE takers are in their early to mid twenties. Questions for you, if you don't mind taking more time: Does the difference between fluid and static intelligence reflect why I've not been able, despite a year's diligent studying and some informal tutoring from PhD-Engineer friends, to make such a marked improvement in my Quantitative score? My most recent score in Quant has only come up to 690; just after BA graduation in the 70's I scored 560 on Quant. My point being, is the Quant test more a test of fluid intelligence (which declines with age, and which, if I understand you correctly, is less malleable in any event)? I need a very high Quant score in addition to the Verbal, in order to pursue a multidisciplinary PhD I'd like to do, probably after retiring from my current job. Is there no hope for me to score in the upper-700s in Quant? Thanks in advance for any further thoughts you might have on the subject.

I raised mine by 280 points, by reading, reading, reading, and reading over a period of 29 years. No kidding. No particular studying done. First score was 520, in 1976. Second was 800 in 2005. --- Which fact alone refutes the assertion I've found in some of the test preparation books, that says the GRE is equivalent to an IQ test and thus each person has an internal limit, beyond which no amount of studying will carry him or her.

I agree that some formal background is necessary, but it need not be a LOT of formal background. I had one semester of German as an undergraduate, and taught myself the rest --- enough such that now I'm a graduate student in German, where all classes are taught in German, average reading is about 100 pages per week, and each class requires a 10 to 30 page term paper, all in German. It did take long time to get to that level. Four years in college would have been a lot easier and faster. John

Hi Scyrus, It's true that probably half of the people you're competing against (top CS grads going for PhD's, that is) did score 800. But that means that the other half didn't. And your 4.0 average, coupled with your 680 in verbal, which I think has got to be in the top 1% of Computer Science majors, are compelling. I wouldn't worry about it too much; i.e., I don't think I'd retake the GRE for $150 for 30 extra points ---- but if you share in your SOP some new ideas on neural networks or a really new and different sort algorithm you invented yourself---and that runs 50% faster than any other known algorithm --- anything like that, and the AdComm will blow off your 770 as an aberration---maybe you accidentally hit the key for "square root of 2" when it should have been "square root of 2 / 1" ... and of course, then couldn't go back. The moral of this lengthy homily....I think you're in a very good position. If by some chance (which I doubt), you are rejected by all of your top choice schools, you can always try the GRE again. My two cents, John

When I took the GRE most recently (Feb 2010), it was exactly as you described. No money offer, and one of the two math sections was much more difficult than the other. In fact, I was ready to cancel the test because the difficult section came first and I was sure I'd end up with a 300 in Quant -- I didn't know that there'd be a second math section. I also don't know which one was the graded section, but I suspect it was the second, because my score was reasonable (Q690, for a fine arts major is not a bad score at all---it stinks for an engineer of course ). John

It seems there's no end to the variations and contortions through which ETS may, or may not, demand of us. The test is supposed to take 45 mins (essay 1), 30 mins (essay 2), 45 mins (quantitative), and 30 mins (verbal), so 2.5 hours is exactly the expected time ... it sure as heck seemed longer than that to me though. And nerve wracking, because the section at which I'm weakest (quantitative) comes AFTER sweating bullets through the two silly essays that nobody cares about, then the challenging verbal section that everybody cares about except physics and astronomy departments.

Hello Geilezeit, Can I venture a guess from your pseudonym that you either are German or have studied German? I myself am a poor Ami who's been trying to master your difficult language, if you're German; or, I'm a fellow wretched student if you're also an American. Nice to meet you in any event! John

I agree with everything Branwen said and would add that it's really important to understand how the analogies work: Read the relevant sections of whatever guide you use and pay close attention. (Basically, you construct a sentence in your mind and substitute in that sentence the pairs listed in the test.) But the really tricky part is, on the hardest questions, the questions that will propel you into the 700 and above range, SOME of the questions rely on secondary or even tertiary meanings of words: Example: rook ( a chess piece? but did you know? it's also a kind of bird in Britain) .... the correct answer might refer to the lesser known meaning of a word. So, in addition to understanding analogies like the back of your hand, study primary and secondary meanings of words!

I suspect, but have no proof, that (1) people who KNEW it was optional and unscored didn't try very hard, thus making the results invalid; and/or (2) too many people took the NO option ... ETS needs guinea pigs and what better qualitified critters than those of us taking the exam?

Hi again Strangefox, I also took the GRE previously (in 2005, before beginning my MA-German) ... and at that time there was an announced and ... believe it or not OPTIONAL, unscored section. If you took the optional section, your name got put in for a drawing to win $100. I got about halfway thru the optional section (which was AFTER everything else) and aborted the optional piece because I was tired and wanted to see my scores. John

StrangeFox, many apologies for the name confusion!! No I'm not POSITIVE that it's not an unscored section, because (1) ETS takes pains to inform all test takers that they may receive an unscored section but there is no way for a test taker to know if a given section is scored or unscored; and (2) I did indeed get two math sections -- so it's perfectly possible that the fill-in-the-blank question(s) all occurred in an unscored section. I can't remember for sure if BOTH math sections had FITB questions---if they did BOTH, then it would be a moot point. But yes, the problems read like: George loaned Bill $1000 for a year at 12 percent simple interest. At the end of the year, Bill would be obligated to pay George ______________. The correct answer would be 1120.00, which you, the test taker, type directly into a blank field, just like any of 8 jillion Internet forms you've filled out in the last 10 year.

Hi again Strangelove, It's NOT exactly the same in format, though you might not notice the differences unless somebody points them out to you. Here they are: first, and most important, the REAL GRE, unlike Powerprep, has a few math questions that are NOT multiple-choice, but fill-in-the-blank. I think I remember getting two questions of that kind back in February. Second, the screen interface on the reading comprehension is a little nicer than Powerprep. Where Powerprep would say, "in lines 52-57, ..." ..., the newer version actually shows lines 52-57 highlighted. Not tremendous changes, but still not exactly like Powerprep. John

Panegyric to the professor, eh? One must not appear to be a fawning would-be protegé, eh? Hmmmm ... that's an idea that hadn't occurred to me. Yes, you are right. While proving one's dedication to the cluster of subjects near and dear to the heart of the "target" professor, one must still take pains not to be too obsequious, sycophantic, fawning, or downright sucking up. Point well taken ! I shall remember this when, God willing, my turn comes. (Long story, I'm an inveterate student who's not formally studying anything right at the moment, except how to "ace" the quantitative portion of the GRE.) All good wishes! John

Oh I definitely think you should toot your own horn .... but professors like appreciation, they like to be noticed, just like anyone else does. I'm only saying that if you prove to them that you've read their work, it's better than just talking about yourself that's all. Yes, you definitely need to summarize your strengths. I DO think though, that the long and impressive letter several posts above is too much. That person should, in my opinion (after 20+ years of being a technical and business communications editor)----that person could cut the length of the letter in half and still retain the substance ! Just my opinion. John

I think it's quite similar to applying for a job. And ALL the books on applying for jobs say you should in some way show your familiarity with their program and research. "Dear Professor xxx, I read your [ date ] article in [ journal ] and am very much interested in research in [ similar or exactly the same subject ] and [ if applicable ] your [ study design / sampling methodology / you name it ]. Coincidentally, I [ have applied for / been accepted into ] the [ dept ] program at [ university ]. Since our research interests seem to be congruent, I wonder if you would have an opening for an advisee? ... etc etc " That small courtesy, showing that you know something about them and are not just tooting your own horn might well set you apart from the crowd.

This is a tedious exercise, and I only have one lunchbreak. So ... I took the quantitative POWERPREP again, and left the last 10 questions unanswered, while answering the first 18 correctly. Score: 590, barely above median, even though questions from about 8 onward were "challenging" type questions. And, upon reflection, that seems fair .... I would think that even a college graduate who always struggled with math ought to be able to answer 18 questions correctly in 45 minutes .... by using sheer brute force methods for the quasi-statistical and quasi-probability questions for example ... but that's just my wild-ass guess (WAG) as we call it here where I work. Best to all, John

Hmmmm .... that's interesting. My guess is because it was only one question, the penalty wasn't so bad. I'll run the experiment of leaving the last five and last ten questions unanswered, and see what happens.

StrangeFox. That's correct. emmmm. No I haven't tried leaving questions blank because all of the GRE prep books and the GRE website itself say there is a "heavy penalty" for unanswered questions. I haven't found out how "heavy" the penalty is. The logic makes sense. They DON'T want anyone to put major concentration into the first 10 questions or so, then just totally blow off the rest of the exam, expecting to get an 800 by only answering 10 questions. John

I tried Quantitative only, but here it is: 28 questions. Questions 1-23 correct; 24-28 incorrect: score 760 Questions 1-18 correct; 19-28 incorrect: score 670 Surprisingly HIGH. The adaptive thing is even more adaptive than I suspected. Wow! The moral is: REALLY concentrate on the first 10 questions or so, it makes a BIG difference. John