Ilspflouz

Hi everyone, I am deciding between 3 schools for a PhD, and am in need in some outside opinions! Considering the following, what would you do, or do you have any advice about making a decision? All have a good track record of graduating candidates for tenure track positions (what I want to do after my PhD) and all schools are within the top 10 in my field. Thank you so much! School 1 Highest ranked of the 3 schools 1 potential adviser who is a fantastic fit (best fit of almost anyone out there and would be primary adviser), 1 adviser with moderate/mediocre fit -- both tenured and mid-career primary adviser = very very busy awesome project to work on that I am extremely interested in, but it is in very beginning stages - so potential for snags with data collection along the way. If it works out could be AMAZING - very close to research I want to do, but nothing else exists that is as good of a fit to work on if it fell through loved program and city when visited prior to recruitment, contacted primary adviser who seemed very interested in me. set up a time to talk with them, but when that time came they never answered or called me back. didn't hear from them until recruitment weekend, when they seemed really interested in me again. has been good about contacting me since and have had a really great discussion with them recently so not sure what to make of this... 30 credits of coursework, 1 comp 12+ hours away from family Highest stipend offered, insurance included probably cohort of 8-10 School 2 2nd highest ranked of these schools 5 potential advisers (3 who fit well, 2 moderate/mediocre fit) - 3 tenured (2 potentially close to emeritus), 2 non tenured tons of projects to work on that are really interesting/am passionate about, but not as close to what I want to do as school 1's project is 2nd highest stipend offered with potential for increase -- health insurance not included liked city, loved program when visited great communication and comraderie among students and faculty and with me ~5 hours from family 60 credits of coursework, 2 comps probably cohort of 12-15 School 3 3rd highest ranked of the 3 schools 4 advisers (2 great fit, 2 moderate fit) -- 3 tenured (1 potentially close to emeritus), 1 not tenured did my undergrad and MS at this school - been living in area for ~10 years. would probably need to stay on the projects I already work on as well as pick up some new things. so easy transition. passionate about many of these projects but not sure I want to continue doing the same things...Also I am terrified that my main adviser at this school is going to be extremely angry at me if I leave because there will be no one to run their project. love program 1 hour from family 45 credits of coursework, 3 comp lowest stipend offered, potential for increase -- health insurance included probably cohort of 6-8 great environment and communication with me Any thoughts/advice are appreciated! Thank you so much!

I think the way you have phrased everything here gives you your answer. Here is my thoughts: -It seems like you are not sure if you want to study Crim/CJ for the rest of your life. In my opinion you definitely should NOT go to a Crim PhD program if that is the case. In a CJ/Crim program you will learn about CJ topics and you will be trained to work for a CJ program, not a sociology one. Your chances of being hired into an academic sociology department with a Crim PhD are very small. Many people in Crim do not think of Crim as an off shoot of sociology, but its own discipline, and are not interested in working in a sociology department. This is likely why you are not seeing Crim graduates from Cincinnati in sociology departments. -Sociology sounds like your passion and main interest. Perhaps you have an interest in crime or deviance, but only in a sociological context? If so, you would want to go to a sociology program with a crime focus/track available, but probably not a CJ program. This is especially true if you are passionate about family sociology and not crime! Also, I think Cincinnati is usually most known for its work in corrections and practice-oriented/applied work. This doesn't sound like what you are interested in. -While Cincy itself is not highly ranked in general as a university, it has a very VERY good CJ/Crim PhD program. I think in terms of what you are talking about with rankings it is just an example of a case where ranking in the discipline is differently decided than the university overall. I can see how this could be confusing. But rest assured within the discipline of CJ/Crim Cincinnati is very well thought of. Outside the discipline (e.g. in sociology) I'm not sure how it would be thought of. There were unfortunately plenty of people rejected or wait-listed by their PhD program this year and in recent years. Look at the other threads on this forum for some examples. Cincinnati is not just some kind of diploma mill program where everyone is accepted and the training is mediocre. That's not why I'm cautioning you about going there, It just sounds like it may not be the best fit for your interests/aspirations. -All things considered if I was you I would go to UChicago, or re-apply for PhD programs. UChicago sounds like a much better fit for your interests and career goals. With a master's in sociology from UChicago under your belt I would bet your chances at getting into a PhD program in sociology would greatly increase. If you are positive you want to do a PhD, I would also consider trying to find research work in an academic department at a university if you don't want to do another Master's, and then re-applying for a PhD. That would give you experience and access to academic departments but you wouldn't necessarily have to pay for the experience that way. It would also give you a chance to publish or get other experiences to make you an even better applicant for jobs or PhD apps in the future. --Your GREs are clearly great. Maybe re- post on the sociology forum and see what they say? Good luck!

Hmmm. Tough choices! Which one is CJ/crim? Which one is psych law? Here's' how I'd think through it: 1) Are you certain you want a PhD/career as a researcher? If the answer is yes, then I'd throw out #3. IMO there is no reason to take the time to do an MA/MS first if you don't have to if you are already sure you want a PhD and have gotten into 2 programs where you have good fit and are interested in. The only reason why I would reverse this is if you told me that the school for this one was MUCH higher ranked than 1 or 2. E.g. if it's on the top 10/top 5 and the other schools are not ranked. If they're all in the top 10/top 7 I don't think rank matters as much. Outside the top 10 it could. Especially if you are looking at working at an R1 school. Im talking about Crim Rankings here. 2)Unless school 1s prestige is much higher ranked than school 2 (see above) id probably go with school 2. This is because I think that fit with your potential advisor is so important. But I'd make sure to ask about the #2 profs plans are because this reasoning depends on their answer. Do they plan on going for tenure at school 2? If yes, how do they feel about publishing with students?? If they're going for tenure that means they're going to have to publish a TON. That's good news for you if they like to work with students and you want to be a researcher. How do they see their mentorship style? Does it mesh with what you want in an adviser? Are the other people you are interested in tenured? Are they willing to work with you? How do they mesh with you? If your answers to all of these questions are positive, I'd go with school 2. It will also allow you to diversify your experience as compared to school 1. But this is just my 2 cents. Location is not so important to me. If it is to you, maybe this is a deal breaker!

I second this sentiment. Very interested to hear what others have to say!

Personally, I would not go somewhere unfunded if I had other, funded choices. The intensity of a PhD program usually means you will not have any time to work. This means you would have to borrow not only for tuition, but also for living expenses (unless you have a spouse or parent or something you can live with who is able to support you). IMO it is not worth going into debt to get a PhD, based on the competitiveness of the job market and the amount you will make coming out of school with a PhD (e.g. it will likely take a very long time to pay back the amount of debt you will have). If I had to choose between going into a PhD program unfunded or just getting a job and putting my PhD dreams on hold, I would probably pick the getting a job part. If I had to pick between 2 funded schools and 1 unfunded, I would definitely go with one of the funded ones. This is just my opinion, so please don't take it as gospel. But I do want to preface it to say that it has been heavily influenced by advice I have received from my major professors over the years. All of this advice has pretty much been consistent with what the previous poster said. From what I remember, the reasoning for it has been due to a combination of the reasoning I have typed out here, along with this reasoning: that if a school really really wants you, they will find a way to fund you. You want the school you go to to look at you as an investment, be invested in your future, and treat you as a priority. Of the few students I know who went to programs unfunded, the main complaint has been that they have other peers who were funded at their programs and that it can feel like the funded students are given priority. But if everyone in the USF program is unfunded, that probably won't be the case - so take that with a grain of salt. Good luck making your decision! I hope this helps! Again, this is just my opinion, so don't take it as gospel! ;-)

I think this is a great idea! I will be watching it anxiously as I try to make decisions.

Ahhh Ok - well I will be there Thursday-Saturday. So if you are going to be there any of those days just let me know!

Alright what days will you be there?

@Square49 @AspiringScholar17 Hi! You 2 still want to try to plan something at ACJS?

Great Q! I'm wondering the same. My priorities at the moment: 1)Fit with # POIs and their current work 2)Ability to publish with faculty 3)Existing research-practitioner partnerships with opportunities for student work 4)POI mentorship style/availability (how busy are they - will they have time to meet? Does their apparent mentorship style mesh with mine?) 5)Program Quality/Job placement after PhD 6)Attrition Rate for program 7)Comp Style/Pass Rate 8)Expectations for assistantship and type of work (GA/TA/RA, etc) 9)Funding 10)Quality of life/program style (What's the program like? Cutthroat? Supportive? Competitive?) 11)Location

Hi! I think it is a really good idea to look into this stuff before you decide to go the PhD route. If you are interested in higher education, from what I have heard the job market in CJ is actually really strong at the moment. However, who knows will it will be in 5 years. Here is a website to help you: http://www.adpccj.com/surveys.html --> Reports from the ADPCCJ (association of doctoral programs in criminology and criminal justice) which include job placement info as well as other relevant stats about grad school from the last 10 years http://www.adpccj.com/documents/2016survey.pdf --> Direct link to the 2016 report. From the 2016 report: "Figure 7 shows that not only is the employment rate among recent graduates [from the doctoral programs included] very high – 94 percent are known to be employed in a tenure-track academic position, a local, state, or federal research agency, or a private research firm – but also that academic positions are by far the most prevalent mode of employment for almost 60 percent of graduates." I was in your shoes 2 years ago, albeit without my MS yet. If you have any questions, send a PM!

Maybe 5?

I'm not presenting the poster specifically, but I am part of a research group that mentors undergraduates and 4 of them are presenting posters I helped them develop and that my name is on. This means I have to be nearby in case the undergrads presenting need help. So...kind of? Lol. I won't be there near the beginning of the week, only coming in for Thursday and Friday.

Me too as long as I can get away from the group I'm with! haha. Are you both presenting?

Ahhh!!! I really feel for you. I had an unexpected surgery during my last application cycle and it was ridiculous. At least you will be out of it for a few days and probably won't care about anything. Maybe it will be like a vacation from the stress. It was for me kind of. Lol. Good luck with the surgery and the apps!!!