PaperChaser

Is anyone here considering going to the University of North Carolina-Greensboro?

If it's any consolation, I had to get a JD before any PhD program would consider me. The 3 years of law school absolutely SUCKED, but getting only acceptances in the mail this time around made it worth it, at least to me.

I grew up outside of Knoxville and went to Webb, so I'll throw in my 2 cents.. Unless you want to be in the middle of an eternal frat party, don't live "on campus." I think it's worth it to live in BIKING distance (i.e. Old Town) or RIGHT off Kingston Pike (they've changed all the interstate stuff the past few years, so my references may be obsolete) to avoid having to buy a parking pass, because even if you get one, you'll still have a LOT of walking to do! I think K-Ville's been cleaned up/restored enough over the past few years that taking the bus for a SHORT distance is safe. I would not recommend living too far from downtown because the traffic is INSANE with all the road work. (It's always been bad.) The cost of living isn't bad, and you do have the opportunity to occasionally see good bands, sports, etc. It's a typical flagship school in a lot of ways. I'll second the person who said don't bring up Vols sports unless you have something nice to say...Tennesseans are quite territorial about their sports! Try Craigslist for a place to live. I'd say anything downtown or in Old Town or immediately off Kingston Pike is pretty safe. You shouldn't have to pay more than $600-700 to have something pretty nice downtown.

I've been visiting schools over the past month, and some of the PhD students have mentioned that they used their acceptances to one or more other schools to get a better deal from their first choice (but lower stipend) school. Has anyone on here actually had experience "negotiating up" with a program? It seems like the stipends are set in stone, but I've heard enough people say otherwise to put it forth to the group.... For instance, if School A offers $12k/yr for 5 yrs (total=$60k), School B offers $20k/yr for 4 years (total=$80k), School C offers $15k/yr for 4 years (total=60K), and School D offers a weird combination of $14.5k for 2 years and then $16.5k for 3 years (total=$78.5k? I'm guessing on that one!)....is it possible to sort of negotiate the discrepancies? I don't want to have to choose solely based on funding if I can finagle something else. Any suggestions would be welcome! I'm not accustomed to what's "acceptable" pushing of the boundaries in academia....eeek.

VERY SAGE ADVICE! Relatively few people know about IBR and the write-off after ten years IF you go into "public service." (Otherwise, it's 20.) You do need to make sure that your loans qualify for IBR (private loans won't). Your debt load is high and your potential earning power is mediocre; however, you're already pretty far in money-wise, and if getting a graduate degree means you can pay back more of your debt, it's probably not a bad choice. Common misconceptions about bankruptcy as a FYI: student loans are NEVER discharged in Chapter 7 bankruptcy (the only kind worth doing/"fresh start" bankruptcy). If your insolvency is caused by your excessive loan debt, you MAY be able to have the payments restructured (NOT wiped out) in a Chapter 11 or 13 bankruptcy. You have to be able to show that you didn't knowingly take out more loans than you reasonably thought you could pay back (I'm stating this in non-lawyer language, but if you want more info on bankruptcy, check out 11 United States Code 101 et seq.). I think you know that you're probably not going to be able to pay back your existing loans, let alone more loans, unless you make far more money than is reasonably anticipated for someone in your field...ten-plus times your current salary. Still, I'm a lawyer not a financial professional. You should definitely seek professional financial counseling to determine what's best for you. Good luck!

I wholeheartedly second this! I'm a recovering shy person too (with a VERY strong southern Appalachian accent that just won't go away!) and I completely agree that asking people questions about themselves helps open up dialogue really quickly. Plus, if you do nothing EXCEPT talk about yourself, you'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy and make people not want to talk to you. I went to a graduate student visitation day last weekend, and the most interesting people to talk to were the ones who actually interacted with people instead of blathering on and on about themselves. The creepy old profs who cornered me only to go ON AND ON about their totally irrelevant (to me) research areas were definitely a turn-off! If being super-outgoing just isn't who you are, aim to make yourself easy to talk to. The rest will come pretty naturally.

Pack a snarky comment to take with you in case the rest of the faculty has the same sense of humor as the prof you talked to...honestly, it's not worth working with jerks! But it's always funny to give them a little taste of their own medicine...

YES! At first I did the (over the holidays) "I'll just have a glass of wine and some sugar cookies while I toil retyping my master's thesis [because I am old enough to have typed my MA thesis ON A TYPEWRITER]..." but then I gained..um, 15?..pounds and HAD to find some other way to deal with being a trainwreck. (Plus, the semi-drunken typing turned out to be a really stupid idea.) I'm not a high-anxiety person, so this "apply-wait-make life altering decision" process is not my cup of tea. I can handle the Court of Appeals briefs and the crazy clients and the screaming managing partner. I can handle the 18 hour days that make me realize I'm actually barely making minimum wage. I can't seem to handle PICKING a freaking school. I finally get what I wanted all along (acceptances! an escape from the law! reprieve from the crushing weight of the glass ceiling!), and now I'm the deer in the headlights who needs a lot more time than just April 15th to make a decision. Is anyone else in the same boat - acceptances at comparable schools - and totally confused as to which one to pick? The one closest to home? The biggest stipend? The highest ranked program? (Unlike most of the people on here, I am NOT choosing from among extremely competitive programs like Harvard, Berkeley, etc...none of the schools I applied to have appeared anywhere on this forum, so...) EEEEEEK, someone wise please offer some advice as to picking, since I can't seem to make a dang choice.

Currently (check US News or other "reliable source") the job market for lawyers is at a 20-year low. Out of my class of 100 people, EIGHT (including me) got job OFFERS. Three were for Legal Aid, which pays LESS than an assistant professorship. How does one pay back $150k+ in student loans on $35k a year? Oh wait....you don't. Maybe Lit PhDs have the same stats in terms of the difficulty in GETTING a job, but unless they paid for all of undergrad and grad school on student loans, there's no way that they'd have that kind of debt. I know the job market is better in Rhet/Comp, which is what I'm going to do. I agree with the posters who say that a JD DOES make you stand out (all of the program directors I've talked to mentioned that), but it was absolutely NOT worth 3 years of hell, summers (and for me, year-round) working my ass off at a good old boys firm, and going from being a relatively optimistic person to a total pessimist. Not that every person who goes to law school comes out broke, miserable, and jobless, but...right now, like 85% go that route. A friend of mine who went to a top PhD program in English (Michigan) and published significantly bounced around several medium-sized schools for about ten years before realizing that he was never getting tenure. He took out $100k in loans and went to a state law school (not Michigan!). He was at the top of his class, clerked for a federal judge, and....can't find a job. He's been out two years and is still doing $20/hour contract work. [Aside: $20/hr is decent money, but not when the "associates" in the next cube over bill $200/hr!] His age (pushing 40) may have been a little bit of an issue, but the bottom line is that the law currently offers no more opportunities than PhDs in the humanities. One exception: if you have graduate work in the sciences, Intellectual Property lawyers make really good money (starting at $150k). The job market is less glutted because so few people qualify to be IP lawyers, but I wouldn't discourage someone with MS or PhD in biology, chemistry, etc from pursuing that path. A number of people from my school took that route, and they are among the few who got offers. In the end, do what makes you happy. I just wouldn't want to give the impression that the legal job market is any less cut-throat than the academic one. If anything, it's MORE so for women and minorities....

I don't know about yall, but I wish someone would make the decision FOR me! Will it always feel like the grass is greener on the other side?

Me-got flat out rejected from VERY unselective PhD programs 5 years ago. Went to law school. Got a good job at a reputable firm against all the odds and the horrible economy AND the extreme glut of unemployed lawyers in NC. I'm deferring a year to pay down six-figure debt and then going to do what I actually WANT to do. Go to law school if you WANT TO BE A LAWYER. Don't go because you think you'll luck into a job. You won't. Don't go because you think it's a good way to wait out 3 years. It's not. It's extremely stressful, expensive, and antagonistic. I have seen the absolute WORST in humanity from my fellow law students and practicing lawyers. Not all lawyers are bad people, but MANY of them are very unhappy people who-like me-went into the law because Plan A didn't work out or didn't come easily. If your sole motivation to go to law school is because you are frustrated with your other options, PLEASE do some research and spend a few days "shadowing" real lawyers (by that I mean people who have only been practicing a few years, not John Grisham). If you think graduate school is brutal, the law is MUCH worse. It works out for some people, but those are the people who truly love the law and believe in the system. If that's you, maybe you WOULD be happier in law school, but if you're smarting from MA or PhD rejections (I've been there! It freaking sucks!), give it another year or two before you sell your soul...

Here's a slightly different perspective that may or may not be helpful... I went to my first choice school's graduate weekend (paid for mostly by them, thankfully..), met the very nice graduate students and faculty, heard lectures, toured the campus, went to a party...only to realize that, despite everything I'd built the school up to be and EXPECTED from other people's comments, my first choice school was just not a match FOR ME. It's a great school, and the other potential PhDs were great people, but it was like going on a date where you felt NOTHING. However, had I not gone, I would've committed to spending 4+ years there. I don't think I'd be terribly happy not being a fit with the program AND feeling incredibly guilty that I was living someone else's dream. I think you should go to the schools you're waitlisted at or "hoping still," because you truly just never know. You may realize it's perfect for you or not for YOU at all, you may meet someone like me who felt better declining an offer early knowing that someone who really, really, really wanted it would get to take my place (and also so that I could move on...), or you might just "click" and make a connection that changes your fate. Maybe everything happens for a reason or maybe we make our own luck. I don't know. I do believe that you have absolutely nothing but possible GAIN from trying. Good luck!

I won't lie, I don't mind being single when it comes to making decisions like this! I think you should say to your husband what you've said to us: "I GET YOUR FEARS. [Validate him.] HOWEVER, I have a dream. [You married me, so now it's OUR dream, so get used to it.] I will be unhappy with myself and eventually with you if I do not at least give it a TRY. I understand that this means we BOTH have to make sacrifices. I am willing to make the necessary sacrifices on my end; will you TAKE A CHANCE and TRY for [insert realistic time period] so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life kicking myself for not taking this opportunity? I'm willing to make these sacrifices for [period of time] to see if I/we can make it work. Can you agree to do the same?" If your time period is three years and he says no [with a legit reason], you need to back down to a shorter time period. How about three semesters? One school year? Ask him to participate in this venture LONG ENOUGH for you to determine if it's feasible. He'll counter with "what's the point of doing it for a year?" You then say "so I can tell if WE can make it work or if it's too hard on us/the kids but in order to be fair to us AND the kids, I need to KNOW that I gave it my best shot." It sounds like you have your ducks in a row and what's keeping you back is his opinion and reluctance to support you in this. Ask him to elaborate on WHY he has x, y, and z reservations, and then address those. You said it best yourself: "we've always come out on top before." This should be no different.

I'm in a different position from you (more debt! no family!) but I totally feel your "finance my dream, America!" Here are some ideas that have worked for me or someone else I respect/trust. FWIW, I'm also finishing law school and do a ton of "financial restructuring" to help clients avoid bankruptcy. 1. Shamelessly grovel. I'm Catholic (lapsed, but the guilt's still there), and if any group is susceptible to "help me now and it's less time in purgatory!" it's Catholics. ASK for more money. Negotiate. You'd be surprised how often ASKING works. And asking ain't stealing. If you can get a personal audience with a FinAid person at Catholic, use your persuasive skills. It's a lot harder to say no in person than via email. 2. If you haven't already, refinance your home unless the loan closing costs would end up costing you more than you'd save. If you don't have a HELOC (home equity line of credit), you can probably get one. Will you ever be able to pay it back? Probably not. But neither will most of America, so you'll be fine. 3. Become a professional housesitter for "snowbirds" and the retired government workers. Many federal jobs (FBI, DOJ, etc) have mandatory retirement at 57 1/2, so people keep their condos and travel a lot or buy a second home and live and work (a second career) part of the year away from DC. No one wants to leave their dwelling uninhabited/dirty/ripe for theft for 3-6 months, so if you get a reputation for being a good housesitter, you can easily develop a network of essentially free housing Ditto for pet-sitting. Hell, I'm $150k in debt and still manage to pay my dog-sitter because my dog just loooooooves her! 4. Find a SES program where you can tutor. Depending on the program, you can make $20-45/hour to tutor. Certified teachers are obviously at the higher end, but the time commitment is generally 8-10 hours per week after (kids') school. SES programs are federally funded, so some of them are VERY desperate to find qualified people. I've found that the individual programs are usually pretty willing to negotiate fees/hours if you're qualified and VERY willing to meet your demands if you have a teaching license (doesn't have to be active). The key, though, is SES, because it's Title I money that the schools don't get unless they use it for SES. 5. If you're multi-lingual, do private tutoring. There's a market for every language! High school kids trying to get into fancy colleges needs 5's on their AP French exams (or whatever)... 6. Can you become a one-car family? DC has great public transport and encourages ride-sharing...if you're making payments on two cars and two sets of insurance...consider letting one go if you can possibly do without it. 7. Cut out expenses you and your family don't need. (I know that sounds obvious, but I look at a lot of bankruptcy pre-filings only to see that the debtors made $500 a month in unnecessary payments...) Make a budget, see where you can cut back, bite the bullet (bye bye Direct TV), and do it. 8. Sign up for a medical study that PAYS. That said, don't sign up for one that's a freak experiment. If you have a legit health issue that you are willing to let med students study (IBS, depression, acne, whatever), you can be quite well-compensated for your time. There are listservs that have ongoing "participant seeking" studies. I've done it...I can't complain about $50 for an hour a week and better skin. 9. If you're under 35 (and willing), you may be able to "assist in fertility treatments." Some people find this morally sketchy; I personally don't. The threshold for "eligibility" tends to be pretty high---your "egg value" is determined by your family history, current and past medical history, height, weight, body type, eye color, IQ/test scores, etc. For someone 5'8 and 120 lbs with blonde hair, blue eyes, and a 95th percentile SAT score....your eggs are worth $5k a pop. The rest of us? $1500-3000. But that's still a lot. 10. Hit up family and extended family. (You probably already have.) You may already have a lot of debt, but if you've kept up with Obama's student loan changes, you may find taking out student loans less onerous than they once were. Those are just the first ten things that came to my mind, but I hope at least one of them helps. Follow your dream....

Any suggestions as to where to live? Downtown? Are there any particularly good or bad places to live? I have a dog (Shar Pei, she sleeps all day) but that's it. I don't see a lot of decent places in the "under $700" price range close to USC, but I haven't been there in years. Ideas?

What is "compelling?" I'm in a similar situation---I'd REALLY like to go this fall, but because of my law school loans, I would be better off working for a year so I'd at least have money to move. I'm uncomfortable asking the schools that offered me funding, since I've heard that the general rule in English is that they may defer the admissions, but they will very rarely defer the funding offer made for THIS year. If anyone knows more about deferrals...please do tell!

I've heard from 3 of the 4 schools. (Three acceptances-two with full funding, one with NO funding. Weird.) I'm an in-state candidate at the only school I haven't heard from yet, but I got an email last week that my application materials have been sent from the graduate school to the department, so I expect to hear this week or next. That said, I applied to less selective schools than many of the people on this forum, so....it's easier to pick 3-4 candidates out of 40 than 6-8 out of 200!

First of all, congrats on getting through school so fast! I can only speak from my own pretty weird experience, but I think that a well-spent year or two off (Peace Corps, Teach for America, working in DC for a literacy non-profit, traveling with a purpose) CAN help to show admit committees that you've had some life experience and that you're STILL sure that this is what you want. My little detour (but one of many) led me to law school, and I can say WITHOUT A DOUBT that the students fresh out of undergrad (i.e. 21-23 years old, graduate at 24 or 25) across the board and regardless of class rank had significantly more trouble getting jobs or even interviews. A little real world experience can be incredibly helpful and shows that you can function outside academia. Plus, it makes you more interesting, and that's always going to weigh in your favor. You're obviously really smart, so give yourself a vacation! You're way ahead of the curve....go live a little, then re-apply. If it can work for someone with a 2.7 GPA, trust me, it can work for you!!

Very solid advice, lcampb, and how I ferreted out the better-funded programs. I'd second your HIGH rec to read the "portrait," especially if you think you're up against 200 other applicants....you (we) are up against far fewer than our Lit counterparts.

Well, Robert Bardo (murderer of Rebecca Schaeffer) and Mark David Chapman (shot John Lennon) both got caught with Catcher on them, so....I guess Salinger was just a popular guy

I don't think that this is a bad offer under two circumstances: 1. if you are independently wealthy or are willing to take our loans, or 2. if the "in-state registration fees" cover your tuition even if you're out of state. Assuming that the tuition deal only covers in-state, even AFTER the first 2 years and you are not in-state, I'd pass, even though it is Berkeley. If you're already in-state or would be considered in-state after two years (or whatever), I think it's worth taking out loans for two years until you can get a teaching appointment. If it's your dream school, take out the loans. There are a lot of repayment options out there...

Pathetic?! With that kind of work ethic/energy, I'd say "rock star!" Whether you get in or not, someone's very lucky to get you!!

I went there for part of undergrad and while I was there lost my license (no, not DUI, just WAY too many points). I-and this is before the internet was actually useful-put up posts around campus (this would be smarter to do via the internet now) asking if anyone was interested in a ride share. I got a TON of responses. I had to try a few different people, but I found one girl who was willing to trade petsitting on weekends (she had a really laid back dog that I could keep at my house) for rides to/from school. Obviously, I had to be at school longer hours than I may have otherwise, but it was free, I got around, and I made a new friend! Is there some reason you have to be downtown if all of your classes are on JI? I'd try to work something out with a classmate, even if you end up paying for most of that person's gas, it's cheaper than a car. You said you couldn't afford a car (probably), but if you go to a sheriff's sale or auto auction, you can get a good deal if you take someone knowledgeable with you. Also, MANY car dealers right now are doing 0% down 0% interest for (a year or whatever), so you may be able to get something with really low payments. You can totally make Charleston work. Milk it for the Southern hospitality that it's got!