jazzman

Grafton is legendary, indeed. Although, I am pretty sure he's not on the admissions committee for Princeton HOS. I was told to target committee members specifically, at least three. Bottom line, I think having the right advice, or running into the right people giving you advice, can be a game changer. This is specific to my case, because I had a few weaknesses in my application package. Others, who are brilliant, knew not to screw up their undergrad, probably got no advice and still got into an Ivy on the first go. Hopkins is quite competitive, from what I've heard. I also wonder if interviewing on the last few days, or the last day, puts you in a slightly worse position - but also better (if you are an excellent fit/interviewer). Recency effect is stronger, and any blunder you make, is remembered that more vividly. But on the flip side, you also have a stronger chance at dazzling and having that remembered. The latter scenario isn't applicable to me, I cave under pressure. Wisconsin's history program is a top program. I heard they've got funding woes. But more acute for International students, such as myself. Americans aren't really affected. You got interviewed by Hopkins, accepted into Wisconsin. I don't think that Indiana and/or Chicago were really out of your reach. Tailoring the SOP could have done the trick. Who knows. All I know is, I no longer buy into the whole 'special' nonsense. It's all about knowing how to present your application the 'right way'. Obviously, you still need to be good on paper, gpa/gre/lors. But you don't have to be a special cookie to get in, or need to have a stellar profile.

Added my Columbia offer.

LONG POST, sorry! Since the application season is nearly over and I’ve heard from mostly all programs (aside from NYU, waitlist or rejection at this point), I thought I’d debrief. I am usually not one for these type of posts, or even forums, I frequent only when needed, to relieve anxiety or boredom, and never visit again. But having read many posts, and followed some people's successes and failures, even rooted for some, I wanted to leave whatever words of wisdom I could, to help out whoever may end up coming across my post. First off, I am a ‘unique’ case, well not unique but different than the traditional history student, I’ve flunked out of my undergrad, changed my major 3/4 times, before finally settling on history. I retook all the courses I failed (7), as well as any course I got less than a B, about (3-4). It took me, with a mandatory gap year, 7 years to finish. BUT because my university did this funny transcript thing, it ended up being that it took me 5 years to finish my BA, instead of 7. Nevertheless, once I decided on history, I took primarily history courses, and graduated Cum Laude, gpa 3.6-3.7. But I will list my exact scores and gpa below. Anyway, I have been immensely privileged to have received close mentorship from a very dear MA advisor, who was my confidant, editor, and guide. He is an extremely well respected senior academic, friends with many Ivy professors, and through his connections I received a lot of advice and kind words from them, in turn. He told me which schools to apply to, read over each and every one of my SOPs to each school, told me how to approach his friends (for me they were POIs), and told me which ones to avoid. And really, most importantly, he never stopped believing in me, and that helped me believe in myself. The reason I am harping on about my supervisor, is because I truly believe having a strong support network is crucial. You need someone to believe in you, especially when you stop believing in yourself, and you will. I am pretty confidant/arrogant and I had moments of intense doubt. I was extremely reluctant to embark upon the academic path because of the job market, so when I did my MA, I promised myself my academic aspirations would continue no further than my MA thesis. I needed to prove to myself that if I wanted to do academia I could do it and I did. However, when I got to writing my MA thesis, I worked closely with my supervisor, and he made me fall in love with my field, and academia, and I simply couldn’t resist the pull. Nevertheless, my supervisor is a very sober man, and he told me that the job market is tough, and if I want it, I needed to take the ivy route. (Sorry guys, I don’t mean to offend, but that’s the advice I got). He did warn me of the difficulty, but as months went by he was more confident I’d get in than I was initially. I am not sure what changed. Next, while I am a history student/scholar pure and simple, I did my MA thesis on a history of science topic, and just fell in love with the field. I wanted to pursue my degree in history of science BUT with a strong emphasis on history and less science. Here is the thing, I am and I remain a student of history proper. That’s just a fact that I had to finally admit to myself and to my interviewees, at an unsuccessful interview at UPenn HSS, which is the reason I didn’t get in. This is important, you need to be clear about your identity as a scholar. I have no science, anthro, or STS background to speak of. I took one psych course, and one history of astronomy course both 101, and did well, but that’s pretty much it. My complete lack of any ‘science’ background played against me at Penn, but also my interests are very history centered rather than science. My supervisor however disagreed with my thinking and said that I could style myself as a history of science student regardless of my lack of background because of my MA thesis. Perhaps, or not. This is my second year applying. First year, I applied to Harvard and Princeton, I visited both schools, and interviewed at Harvard (unofficially), with a POI that is a close friend of my supervisor. Very encouraging and positive interview. Now for the History of Science at Harvard, it is not housed within the history program, and the interview was unofficial. HOWEVER, you absolutely must contact professors before applying to the History of Science department, in fact, in the application they ask you if you contacted anyone, and they expect you to do so. So if you get advised against this, don’t listen, contact! The same goes for Princeton! AND DO NOT JUST CONTACT ONE, CONTACT AS MANY FACULTY MEMBERS AS YOU CAN. But do so prudently, and don’t forget to read their works and speak about them in the email! Anyway, with Princeton I visited the campus, sat in on their Monday seminar, which I really liked. My POI was out of town, so I just met with the DGS, it was a formal meeting, nothing special. I loved Princeton, the atmosphere, the campus. I got rejected from both, and because my supervisor is good friends with both POIs at Princeton and Harvard, he got a lengthy explanation of why I got rejected. The problem was my SOP for both, and letters for Princeton. My supervisor asked the Harvard prof if I was a strong candidate for the Ivies and heard a resounding YES, and with this he urged me to reapply. For Harvard my SOP was too narrow, the project I presented was too thought out, and I seemed rigid and inflexible, because unlike the regular history program, in HOS you take 2 years of courses, in which the department actually encourages students to explore different fields, even to change your initial topic. I seemed like I was ready to hit the ground running and I would not be receptive to other avenues of thought. Now for Princeton, the problem was entirely different. I had initially pitched to them a different topic, but then decided to ditch it, and run with the same proposal as I sent to Harvard, and Princeton was blindsided. And felt I’d reject them for Harvard that they were sure I would get in. I thought so too, so I understand completely. L And I would have rejected them for Harvard, so no hard feelings. They also felt I needed more focused letters of reference, mine were from history professors, I needed history of science. I wasn’t science enough on paper. I agree, and I am still not! Before applying the first time around, I had finished my MA, so I could have lots of time to apply to schools. When I got rejected, in the gap year, actually immediately after handing in my MA thesis, I decided to turn some of my thesis into a journal article, with my supervisor’s blessing. The paper has since received ‘Major Revisions’ to a respect well ranked journal, so I knew my paper was solid, and this paper I submitted as my writing sample for my second round of applications. The first time applying, I submitted more or less the same paper but it didn’t yet undergo rigorous peer review at 3 journals. Anyway, Harvard prof said they liked my writing sample, very strong, and after the peer review it was even stronger and better. So I knew I had a great writing sample. THAT IS IMPORTANT! As a history applicant, the writing sample, together with the SOP, is one of the single most important pieces of your application. WORK ON IT! I had also volunteered for an international history of science project, so this made it seem like I was busy during my gap year. Also I only had 1 history of science recommendation, and 2 from history, so I needed another history of science recommendation, which I got from a coordinator of the project. The letters were important, I didn’t really think so, but they are. Princeton told me this. So my profile was as follows: BA GPA: 3.6-3.7 Cum Laude (history) MA GPA: 4.0 Summa Cum Laude (history) – in the results page I erroneously listed 3.8 that’s a mistake (pls ignore) Volunteer for a history of science project for over a year 1 paper to by published in a well ranked academic journal in my field, ‘major revisions’ 2 letters from history of science professors, 1 history GRE: 163 (V), 153 (Q), 5 (AW). And I speak/read/write 2 foreign European languages, aside from English. As you can see I didn’t do well on Quantitative, but I was told by both Harvard and Princeton it was good enough, so long as I am not studying history of math. I didn’t retake it because of that. Harvard was my gold standard and what was good for them will be good for everyone. They don’t focus on GREs, only if they are really terrible, mine weren’t. Now reapplying! I applied to in earnest, and with a lot of effort, to Princeton (HOS), Penn (HSS), Columbia (history), and Yale (HSHM), and I’ll include Brown (history) but the statement was not my best work by any stretch of the imagination (the deadline was Dec 1, first one, and I waffled, it was my own fault). For NYU, I threw in the app on the last day it was due, my statement was written in 15 min. Because I didn’t yet hear for Penn (HSS) interview and I got really nervous. I made contact with an NYU professor back in August but ultimately felt it wasn’t for me. Radio silence from Penn made me rethink only Ivy rule or that NYU made zero sense, so I just threw 127$ down the drain to allay my anxieties. I got contacted to interview at Penn the next day. L I should’ve just withdrawn my app but having paid already I felt I should just stick with it. So for NYU’s sake, I hope they reject me and use the 127$ to buy themselves something pretty. The reason Harvard is patently absent from my list is because my POI is retiring and will not be taking anymore students, and I would have no one to work with. That was important for me, to have at least one person I could conceivably work with, BECAUSE, when I wrote up my new SOP, I tailored it to schools, and to the faculty. I got in touch with people at every school, they told me their interests and I wrote up an SOP to reflect their interests and mine, to an extent of course. The strategy was TO GET IN! But also, have someone I could work with, potentially, but be open to possibilities, be flexible. That’s what I wished to convey, flexibility and passion. Now for the SOP, I didn’t, and urge the rest of you, please please do not write about your bad grades or about your bad gre scores, do not get defensive, do not explain, otherwise you will draw unwanted attention in one of THE deciding documents of your admissions, your SOP! Instead, I suggest, and it’s what I did, when attaching your BA grades, copy paste the images into a WORD file, on the last page include a little short blurb about your grades, to explain them, then convert the file to PDF. The shorter the better, have it read by others (brutally honest people), to check if your explanation is suggestive of something. You don’t want to be suggestive, and invite further scrutiny. Don’t give a life story, they don’t care. In fact, they don’t want to hear it. The first thing the Harvard prof told me at my interview, ‘do not mention anything personal in your statement, we aren’t psychologists, we aren’t your friends, we may feel bad for you, but you won’t get in this way’. Stay professional. This is a phd application, not grief counseling. (Again, I am sorry this offends, but that’s the advice I got, and I kind of understand it, you need to demonstrate your ability to withstand 5-7 years of intense and protracted research and writing). Any weaknesses in health, mental or physical, will make the committee think you’ll drop out. Remember, they are investing in you, and you need to be a solid investment. If anyone wants to see my SOP, I’ll happily share it, if someone can learn from it, all the better! Someone did it for me, granted I struck out at Princeton, but I got into Columbia and I was interviewed for UPenn. That’s to me a success. I struck out at Brown, Yale, Princeton, and eventually UPenn. BUT UPenn was after interview, and it was apparent that I wasn’t a good fit, however, on paper I was a very strong candidate, and they told me this at every interview. Some faculty members liked me a lot, others did not at all. They did not like my purely history background. The interview was intense, I had a horror stricken look on my face. To the point that other Penn students came up to me to ask what went wrong. I was grilled. Actually grilled by at least 3-4 professors. I met with about 9, intense is an understatement. But then also, I already had an offer from Columbia which I was going to accept, and I came in relaxed, even though I prepared hard, I didn’t prepare enough for the questions they asked. And I wouldn’t have needed to prepare as hard, had I had a history of science background, rather than history. Or STS or any science background. I don’t mean to brag (who am I kidding? Obviously I want to brag! I got into bloody Columbia!!!) but for Columbia, I got elected a Richard Hofstadter fellow, with a stipend of 31,925$ per year for 5 years. That’s more than Princeton and Penn. So I know I got a competitive offer. I also know that Columbia has around 600 (probably closer to 400-500) applications per year to 25 spots. That’s intensely competitive. I got in. It is and will remain the greatest achievement of my history career thus far. Also, I hate to admit it, the reason I applied to the history of science programs, even though I am clearly a history student all the way with a sub-field interest in history of science, is because statistically it is easier to get into history of science programs. I know you’ll all scream that it’s just as competitive, IT IS NOT! With the definite exception of Harvard (acceptance rate 10-13%), History of science programs are not as competitive as history programs. And maybe with the exception of MIT and Johns Hopkins. There! I said it. Statistically, the acceptance rate is 20-30 percent across the board, I am not exaggerating, I have actual numbers from my POIs, with the exception of MIT and Hopkins, I don’t know those but I heard their acceptance rate is brutal. For goodness sake, I was good enough for Harvard and Princeton, I was encouraged to apply, AFTER they saw my profile, my grades, my writing sample. Princeton POI encouraged to reapply. You may bulk, but again look at my profile, is it competitive? That’s up to you to decide. I will say this to everyone, believe in yourself! You can do it! I got into Columbia, if I did it, you can too! I am not special by any stretch of the imagination. I can tell you the specifics of every rejection, Yale, Princeton, and Brown. Well, Brown I mucked up pretty bad. But I won’t bore you further. If you would like to hear what advice I got from Princeton and Harvard, PM me. I didn’t get in, but I could certainly pass on the advice. But then I didn’t reapply to Harvard. So who knows. For Princeton, I shouldn’t have applied at all, not with my topic, I was a bad bad bad fit. My first choice were Penn, Columbia, and Princeton. My back ups (as ridiculous as they are for phd apps) were Yale, Brown, and NYU. I read somewhere, and was also advised by my supervisor to apply to 5, and will likely get 1 acceptance. Also, my supervisor actively discouraged me from applying to Yale and NYU. But at the end relented, clearly to assuage my anxieties. What I would do differently? I would have applied only to Penn, Columbia and Brown. I would still keep Penn, because it is a first-rate program, by all standards, even if it is an STS/HOS program, and not too aligned with my interests. But it is an excellent program, with outstanding faculty. To prepare, I would have tried to develop and further my interests in STS/HOS, and style myself less of a regional/temporal historian (which is how we are taught in History) and more of a historian of biology or chemistry. Also, I would have worked harder on the Brown application. Brown has some great faculty, and I should not have made it a back up, and I did that against my supervisor’s advice. He thought Brown should have been one of my top choices. I am extremely happy with the outcome, and I wish everyone the best! Good luck and Excelsior!

Don't give up hope yet. Princeton may surprise you. Really. Depends on the cohort they are putting together this year.

Sure. Columbia is more competitive than Brown. Though Brown is a pretty good history program, on par with NYU. US Ranking, I'm afraid is what they are judged by. And application pool/admittance. Yale HoS, well, competitive isn't an issue there, it's fit. They are geared towards medicine. And a new senior hire, that may have fallen through, again. They told me to apply on the likelihood that the hire would accept their offer, but I couldn't well mention that in my SOP, so I relied on an early modernist prof that was semi-interested in my topic. And don't doubt yourself. From what I've read of your posts, you'll be able to get into UPenn, and probably Princeton/Stanford, provided Princeton/Stanford has someone you can work with, potentially. And also Harvard. Just need to tailor your SOP in a very specific way, that defies logic and reason. If you ever think of applying to Ivy HoS programs, PM me. I myself was fortunate enough to get real sound advice (from a Harvard prof and a student at Princeton), and even got someone's SOP that got into all schools second time around, but struck out everywhere first time. (all schools I mean Penn Harvard Princeton Stanford). Worked out okay so far, UPenn interview coming up, and a fully funded competitive offer at Columbia.

Congrats! Wisconsin's HoS program is a strong one, I've heard.

Yes, emigres fleeing the Revolution were quite a few. But non-jewish emigres during Imperial Russia, I'd have thought them to be few and far in between. I'm intrigued, that's interesting. Would you only be concentrating on Russia proper (so Russian slavs) or also looking to German Russians in the Balkans, and Ukrainians?

Thanks @nevermind ! Pretty brutal to get two rejections in a day, even for backups.

Very interesting. What is your time period? Actually, my POI is a Russianist, Catherine Evtuhov. But I am interested in global (European) circulation of knowledge (scientific). Looking at scientific exchange among four scientific societies, Russian, German, English, and French, 18-19th ce. So like you, also global.

What's your concentration?

Thanks! But don't lose hope just yet! My concentration is history of science, it's a smaller field and probably releases decisions earlier than others.

Got into Columbia (modern European/history of science concentration) Rejected from Yale and Brown (history of science concentration) yesterday.

Just got into Columbia! Email to check website. Got dumped by Yale and Brown (history of science concentration) yesterday, was pretty depressed, even though both were back ups. Brown is a great program.

I feel you! I think if mine was an acceptance my POI would have emailed me, to let me know.

Hi all, thought I'd chime in. Applied to History of Science / History programs at Penn (HSS), Yale, Princeton, Brown, Columbia and NYU. Broadly interested in European Science, 18th and 19th centuries. Hold an MA in History proper, but Master's thesis was in History of Science. International applicant, Canada. Already heard back from Penn, invited to interview. How about you all? Where did you guys apply to, and have you heard back from anyone?