rejectedndejected
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Posts posted by rejectedndejected
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2 hours ago, sambam said:
HDS released decisions last year on March 12th. hope its the same date or earlier this year!! am on the edge of my seat...
Schools like to dole out the bad news on Fridays. March 15 is a Friday. I would anticipate getting an e-mail at 4:55 pm on March 15.
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Hey guys--as I've already alluded to, I'm a mixed (PhD and M*) applicant. I got waitlisted to Notre Dame's MTS program (not super high on the list). Does anyone have any experience with ND's waitlist/MTS admissions? Do they often go to their waitlist? If so, how deep? Has anyone been accepted to their MTS this cycle? The M*/MTS/MAR thread is prettymuch dead/moribund.
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No one else wants to talk Notre Dame MTS? I figured there would be a flurry of activity on here since those answers came out today. Here's to waitlist purgatorio!
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Also, today I got an e-mail from Harvard Divinity School saying, inter alia: "we have organized a webinar entitled “Preparing for What’s Next,” which will take place on Thursday, February 28th from 3:00 pm - 4:00 pm EST."
Do you guys think that only students that they are planning to admit received these notices? Or do you think it was sent to all applicants? Maybe I'm reading way too far into this, but admissions season is a stressful time, and analyzing minutia makes the time tick by quickly...
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6 hours ago, westegg said:
For those waiting to hear back from ND's MTS applications, I was informed by email that I was waitlisted this morning. Implication of the email was that MTS acceptances seem to have already gone out. No idea if they've let rejections know or not.
Really hoping I get in off the waitlist, as it's my first choice by far, but I was offered a full scholarship to BC's MTS as well so that's the backup plan if this doesn't come through. Best of luck to the rest of you that applied.
I also was waitlisted to ND's MTS (liturgy) this morning. Blast.
Westegg, what is your concentration? And do you know where you sit on the waitlist?
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3 hours ago, xypathos said:
That's a great question and depends on if the applicant is a ministry or academic applicant. If academic: poor grades, low GRE, and little to no language preparation. Ministry is a little more complicated and will vary from school to school and even among scholarships being considered for.
I'm thinking in terms of academic applicants. Does language training matter much at the master's level? I figured that programs used the master's curriculum to begin language training, so that students could use languages at the doctoral level. For the premier master's programs, what is considered a solid GRE score (V/AW)? What is considered a "low" score? What if an applicant has bad undergrad GPA but high first master's GPA?
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7 minutes ago, xypathos said:
Harvard doesn't technically have a ThD anymore but they don't have less doctoral slots to consider. ThD was just condensed into the PhD program since they found the distinguishing between ThD and PhD trivial since they had the same requirements and ThD students suffered on the job market b/c so many schools went "What's a ThD? Nah, we'll take the PhD from Harvard applicant instead." There's more at work there but that's neither here nor there.
At two other schools I've worked at, we didn't know how many M* students we could actually take (by way of dole-ing out scholarships) until early to mid-February. Acceptances extended beyond us knowing were to two groups: 1) Top applicants and 2) Those we have no intention of extending any decent scholarship to, so we're expecting them to pay significantly.
We also occasionally waited on releasing decisions to weak applicants that we expected weren't going to fair well anywhere else and certainly not get a scholarship. This way, our hope, is that they were desperate and would take our offer and the loans that it would require. It's certainly unfair and cruel but divinity school admissions is becoming more and more cutthroat so Provost/Chancellor-level offices are forcing us to play by unfair rules.
On the flip side of a March 15 release - everyone finds out together. If they're anything like my current place, they start reviewing apps on a certain date and make decisions ASAP. The decision sits in a database until a certain time (sometimes for months) and then get sent out in batches. H&Y simply wait until 3/15 and hit Send for everyone.
Thanks for this. What specifically did you consider a "weak applicant" at the master's level?
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Hey guys--Any idea what takes Harvard and Yale divinity schools so long to come out with decisions? They don't even have ThD applicants to consider anymore, which makes it strange that they take 2 months to decide on us masters peeps. Also, what is the earliest we can expect to hear back? Does anyone know where Notre Dame is in the MTS process yet?
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On 2/16/2019 at 3:21 PM, KA.DINGER.RA said:
I presented at their student religious symposium and found their graduate students to be as (or more) capable than many of the students I've met at Ivy League schools. They understand that the name value for their program won't get them where they want to go, so they bust ass and work hard. Goff is apparently an amazing advisor and is an equally great scholar. If you don't want to do Hellenistic Judaism or DSS, I personally wouldn't go. I applied and was accepted, but they knew my focus is on much earlier stuff. They said it might be better to go elsewhere; I ended up working on a second M* degree and am happy with my current institution. I have nothing but positive things to say about the students and faculty in that program.
Hey KA.DINGER.RA, i know you often have the inside scoop on Notre Dame. Do you know when they plan to begin reviewing (and notifying applicants) for the MTS pool?
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Any news on any front?
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10 hours ago, PsyDGrad90 said:
They are learning for specifics. Yes, LORs for the most part are all similar. However, if your letter writer is saying you are a deeply invested and go above and beyond, they are giving an example of how exactly. Maybe they provide a short description of where you took initiative and created a small project from data they already had and created a poster to present at a conference. The letter isn't just "this person is great and smart." A good letter pulls specific attributes you possess that would make you a successful graduate student or whatever the letter is for, and they provide specific examples to illustrate their points.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Although, I think your insights likely pertain more to the sciences than to the humanities. In humanities, isn't analytical prowess concern number 1? Anyone have any thoughts about what makes a good humanities LOR?
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To start a much-needed thread (in hopes of shedding some light on an aspect of humanities graduate admissions that is truly mysterious): What, in the name of all that is good and decent, are grad programs/ad-comms really looking for in letters of recommendation? Almost all letters surely sound pretty similar right? What sets some letters apart? What makes others bad?
If anyone has any expertise/experience in this area, please enlighten us--but everyone feel free to opine.
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Hey guys--has there been any movement in Notre Dame's MTS admissions yet? Does anyone know when concentrations are planning their reviews? Last year, it looks like the first acceptance went up on February 19th or so. In case you're not aware, that's coming up in five days...
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Just now, FrigidSky701 said:
I sent the grim news of getting rejected to three schools to my adviser at my alma mater, and she told me that she thinks because of how few jobs there are in academia these days, perhaps graduate programs are limiting, even more, the number of students they admit. Maybe this is the case, and so the competition is more fierce. I now to accept the fact that I may need to go through another cycle and that I need more preparation.
I forget if you've already mentioned--did you apply to any M* programs this cycle?
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By the way, just in case y'all needed another shot of adrenaline-fueled anxiety, I talked to the religion department at Rice University, and they told me that this year, they had an exceptionally large pool of applicants. So my prognostication that it would be a less competitive year can be filed under "things that have not aged well," right next to Dolly Parton, baseball, and my Chevrolet.
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2 hours ago, EarlyXianity said:
Congrats! That's big!
Seriously--congratulations. Does Baylor interview? Did you have any hunch/inclination that you were going to get in? I can only imagine what it feels like to open a letter of acceptance. Has to be cathartic and surreal.
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14 hours ago, xypathos said:
Last year or so HDS' GRE scores for M* applicants was leaked and I shared it here, I think (maybe it was the Reddit sub, I'll check). They were holding an admissions event in China to recruit wealthy students and GRE scores were on some staff material that was left laying around. Through a friend of a friend a screenshot got forwarded to me. In short, GRE V scores for M* students is/was in the mid to high 150s from what I recall. Q scores are largely ignored unless you're interested in something rather analytical or heavy interests in philosophy. Writing scores are rather important but I can't recall what their guidelines were.
MAR/MTS applications are more competitive but not by a huge margin. YDS' was sitting in the 40s, admitted wise, last time I made any hard checks. Chicago admits about 12 for their MDiv, which seems like it would mean significant competition but as the Director once told me - on a heavy year they get 20 applications. Not that long ago they maintained a near 100% acceptance rate. Then again, applicants to elite M* programs in Religion tend to be self-selecting and there's a bit of a poor perception of them (I can't afford it, I'm not smart enough to get in, don't have the pedigree, etc...) among applicants. In reality, they tend to be well funded, not that competitive, and they favor more whole-person analysis than their respective UG schools.
Thanks for this. Do you guys all apply to second M* degree programs as safeties, in the event that you strike out on PhDs? I have it on good counsel that second M* degrees are quite common prior to PhD work, and yet I'm not getting any younger and I don't want the stigma of "too many degrees" if there be such a thing.
Also, where would you put the median age for an individual entering a religion PhD program? I would bet it's significantly higher than the national average because of the language study that is prerequisite.
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27 minutes ago, tdwightdavis said:
Hey all. I wanted to echo what a few other folks have said because the tone is shifting overall towards this weird quasi-entitled bitterness that I don't think is super healthy. This is my fourth round of applications and I'd be one of those candidates that you'd probably consider spotless. I have two master's degrees, a M.Div from a small div school and a MA from a well-respected research university. I have excellent GRE scores (98th percentile verbal, 99th written). I have publications under my belt and AAR presentations. I have strong letters of recommendation and a good writing sample. I have four research languages. I've been interviewed every year I've applied, including this year (Emory this last weekend, so I'm still in the anxiously waiting to find out stage). But for whatever reason, I've never been the one admitted. That's not because of my ability or my materials or whatever. There's so many factors that go into a PhD acceptance beyond the application materials. Your specific project may not fit with what they're looking for this time. It may be a certain faculty member's turn to get a student whose research and expertise doesn't fit with what you're doing. They may have an internal candidate who they really want. It's important to remember that the application materials are the first step in an insanely nuanced and competitive journey, and getting bitter with admissions committees really is a pretty fruitless endeavor. In my experience, they really are trying to find the best fit for their particular strengths as a program.
EDIT: Also important to remember is that your specific discipline is also just step one in the acceptance process, too. Often the larger department and then the graduate school itself also has a say in acceptances based on a variety of factors.
Just a little steering here: I think a lot of the bitterness comes from the fact that (1) grad schools charge absurd amounts just for (often cash-strapped) applicants to have the privilege of having their materials considered, promising "holistic" review, when most often for top programs, there are articulable GRE and GPA cutoffs; (2) schools are generally very, very tardy in communicating rejections to unsuccessful applicants (decisions are made in late February, but rejections go out in late March/early April) despite the fact that everyone knows that applicants are waiting with a good amount of anxiety, counting down minutes; (3) programs don't even do us the courtesy of mailing out tangible letters of rejection--most are electronic and often you aren't notified that there has been a change in your application status; you just log in to check one day and a soul-crushing epistle is staring you in the face; (4) many programs just seem like they couldn't care less about professionalism and politeness in responding to applicant questions: SLU got my name wrong in their correspondence with me (lol); yet, if heaven forbid, my CV had a simple typo on it, according to some ad comm members, it would have been discarded. Parity anyone? No one is "entitled." We know we aren't guaranteed a spot in a doctoral program. But it'd be nice to be treated like a human with dignity, as opposed to a mere collection of soulless papers in an application file.
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9 hours ago, theofan said:
parakletos, that was really kind of you to post your experience. I completely agree with the SOP and fit factors. I have lower stats and less impressive grades than you and many other top applicants but I am currently interviewing with a top PhD program because they said they were impressed with my SOP and that my goals were a perfect fit with theirs. And it wasn't pure chance: I spent two months researching the university's mission, goals, faculty, and even grad students (I read all the doctoral student CVs on the website) before deciding to apply. I also have languages, work experience, and international experience, which this particular university values much more than pure numbers, and I knew that before applying. Stats are important, but not everything. If you have the calling to be a theologian or religion professor, there is a program out there for you! Take a good, long, holistic look at yourself and give it your best.
Perhaps I was being too cynical. Actually hearing that parakletos didn't get a single interview in his first cycle, even with sterling numbers, confirms that grad schools may not be purely blowing smoke when they speak of "fit" and "holistic" review. The problem now becomes, for those of us with middling-yet-plausible GRE scores (164V/4.5AW) and crappy uGPA but flawless gGPA, determining whether we are being relegated to the trashbin based on uncompetitive numbers or because our SOP suggests a poor fit. It's harder for us to know when it is time to throw in the towel. I don't want to be that one weird old guy enrolled at every grad school that no one can figure out exactly why he is there...
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20 minutes ago, fordlandia said:
@LSiefferman Curious, are you aware of the GRE/GPA admission stats for Harvard Divinity? Since HDS doesn't report these figures, I have been unable to find even general estimates for the admissions criteria.
This.
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1 hour ago, FrigidSky701 said:
Thanks for this. Well, I mean I am just tired of waiting and it would be better to find out that I am flat out rejected soon than just keep on waiting. This is my first cycle, and so I am really frustrated over the whole process. Maybe I was too naive.
I feel for you. It's my second cycle. When I started applying to schools, I thought there'd be this suspenseful climax where I got a decision letter in the mail and had to breathlessly open it to discover my academic fate--a fate which had been carefully adjudicated by a panel of fair-minded, wise professors who endeavored to see my promise as a student (and my heart of gold) through the superficial facade of my fastidiously-prepared application materials. It's not like that at all. For the most part, snooty graduate departments just fawn over the three applicants (who've been diligently grooming themselves for a career as religious scholars and studying Greek since they were still sperm) that were deemed "worthy" of an acceptance, and leave the rest of us undesirables to rot in grad-school purgatory well into April (having barely even glanced at our files because we got a b minus one time as lost undergrads six years ago and the goody-two-shoes with whom we are now competing have had straight A's since kindergarten--this is what they mean when they say they review "holistically," BTW). Then, by mid-April, seeing the writing on the wall, we accept our fates and "reach out" to our respective departments of interest for official confirmation by a low-level staff member (who, of course, resents us for having the nerve to make an inquiry about something as trivial as y'know, our entire future because they now have to do a minimal amount of work in pulling our files up) that our applications had been quickly relegated to a vermin-infested dumpster where they belonged all along.
Other than that, it's a bucket of fun! Who's looking forward to next year?
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3 minutes ago, FrigidSky701 said:
Okay. Maybe it was a bad idea to ask when the decision would be out then. Oh well, time to let go of hope and count UCSB as implied rejection now.
I don't think that it hurts your chances of being admitted to solicit a decision notification. It's just that it behooves schools to notify their top choices quickly, so that they can coax such students into attending their programs. Hence, if you don't hear quickly, IMO chances are you weren't a top choice, and are likely not admitted. It's a correlation and not a causation. Perhaps you are the fallback, on an unofficial wait list of sorts.
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I agree. In my experience, whenever you're at the point where you're tempted to contact the department and solicit the disposition of your app, you're likely toast. If you peruse the results section of Grad Cafe, it seems to confirm this. Almost everyone who solicits, when they receive an answer, is rejected.
I've brought it up a couple other times, but are any of you lurkers applying to Rice's religion department? Anyone heard back?
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Anyone know what the acceptance rate is for Harvard and Yale Divinity schools for the MTS/MAR (NOT the MDiv, which is much easier to get in to)? What are their average GREs, and what makes a strong applicant in general?
Also, I applied to ND for their MTS (liturgy). They used to post their average GRE scores (but they have since been taken down). The claimed average was like 161/157/4.5. But almost every acceptance posted on Grad Cafe's results page had numbers that were off the charts--like 167/162/5.5 (in other words, elite PhD numbers). Can anyone speak to this disparity? Is it self-selection of posters? What does ND's theology department really want in applicants?
2019 MDiv MTS MA Applications
in Religion
Posted
Double, double toil and trouble I tell you.