sacklunch

Great thoughts, mates. Keep em comin!

Macrina, I may be able to help. Shoot me a PM with questions about Duke's late antiquity folks.

I feel you and I welcome help from the more experienced members! I am also worried about being too specific or too vague. Sometimes I also read my draft(s) and I'm like...what the hell am I even saying? Am I saying anything at all?? Heh. I was told by my advisers to sort of draw an intellectual genealogy of my education (BA onward) and sort of use that to make your "fit" a divine calling by the end of the essay. Easier said than done, eh?

Do you mean how would a background in biblical Hebrew carry over to Rabbinic? In short, a lot, I think. I started with biblical Hebrew and after my first two years (1 yr intro/1 yr inter) I started taking Aramaic and Rabbinic. The big difference is the verbal prefixes/suffixes and later some new constructions (vis-a-vis BH, e.g. participle plus hwa, and so on). Words take on new meanings, some strikingly different. But overall, if you had a solid philological approach to BH, I think the transition isn't terrible. FWIW, I have since moved to Syriac in the last 1.5 yrs and found it to be comparable, too (of course, it is still Aramaic!).

What kinds of programs are you applying to? As Abrasax said, it really depends on what you want to do and thus the programs will have varying requirements. Some programs require a lot more language background, others do not. Some schools might not care that you have no Hebrew and study NT, for example, others may prefer applicants to have some (or Aramaic/Syriac). When I did my MTS I had a friend who already had her MDiv from Emory and was basically doing another two years so she could get a really good foundation in some of the languages required for her subfield (NT). She ended up taking some advanced seminars, of course, but she also spent a lot of time (maybe half her classes) on continuing Greek and starting Hebrew. It might feel like you are starting all over again by taking Hebrew 101, but again, depending on the types of programs you are applying to, they might preference the solid paper trail of language classes. That said, if you do go back and take Greek, I would suggest brushing up over the first year of Attic and then enrolling in an intermediate Attic year long course. From my experience, the Koine classes at most seminaries are not terribly rigorous (again, my limited experience) and truly do not prepare students to read much of anything outside the NT. cheers

Thanks for the clarification. That is actually better from my point of view! Thanks again mate.

NOW they do that!? When I was there I tried to set up a joint MTS/MA program in theology and philosophy and I remember the philosophy dept. was having none of it. It seemed so natural to set that program up! It's even more bizarre that almost every program has a joint JD/M* program, which apparently is more obvious than joining theology and philosophy! BC even had an MBA/MTS! Haha. Anyways, it's good to hear they are finally joining forces. And to the OP, for what it's worth, I chose BC over the other big mainline Prot schools (Emory, Vandy, etc.) because 1) there are more resources available in Boston and 2) BC's program is WAY more lax about its MTS requirements than the others I was considering, which allowed me to focus on mostly languages. Incidentally, after being at a big mainline Prot. school now, I have found that language courses are WAY more difficult at the Catholic schools. My experience here has been that because almost everyone is interested in biblical studies, there are huge classes for languages that must adjust for the needs of a lot of ministerial students. At BC, for example, if you actually wanted to take Greek or Hebrew it was entirely historical-critical (no MDiv needs to take such courses), with literally no discussion of theology. This was fantastic for me, as an atheist. But for you might be a nightmare!

Thanks for the info. From my perspective, you have two options: 1) go to a conservative seminary and get an M* degree or 2) go to a mainline seminary and get an M* degree. The latter will change you in ways that might seem impossible at this point. The former will give you a secure (though nonetheless challenging) place to spring to a conservative doctoral program (if you do well, the acceptance rates at any doctoral program are abysmal). Of course I would suggest the second option, but I have never attended a conservative school nor am I Christian, so take that for what it is. But I will say, having grown up around a LOT of conservative types (I'm from Kansas): push yourself to go to that uncomfortable place. There are reasons why many conservative schools make their faculty sign documents not allowing certain things to be taught. Because they are compelling. For me, you are an adult and can deal responsibly with the material as it is presented. The mainline schools are not full of evil people out to make anyone liberal. Far from it. Most of my encounters with theology/div faculty at mainline schools is that they are accepting of all sorts of students, from the conservative to the non-believer. For me, I simply must know. I must look at what the general consensus is in a given field. This stuff is too freakin' cool/awesome/exciting. /rant

Craig is certainly more of a popular apologist, but I find myself agreeing with him more often than Hitchens in their debate(s). He is clearly Protestant, but as an atheist I appreciate what I have heard him say vis-a-vis another popular figure (Hitchens). Meh. I like plenty of silly 'undergrad' things. Sometimes I read heavy philological works that require one to know 4-5 ancient languages, other times I play online games and argue with 12 year old kids about mana cost. This is how we keep our sanity. You gotta have balance, mates.

I think, as Abrasax said, most of these programs simply do not have MA programs. Most of the websites simply say so, though some do not. Even at BC, from my understanding the terminal MA is more or less going out because of the somewhat recently formed STM (which offers an MTS, MDIV, etc.). Again, Chicago is the only school I have ever seen that you can petition to stay on the PhD, while every other website I have seen always says something like "you must apply like everyone else." I have also seen some departments say "we acceptance MA students occasionally" and so on, but most simply do not. So there would be no MA program for you to end up at if they didn't think you were prepared. Chicago, again, seems to be the exception. But I have never heard, for example, of someone applying to Yale's Religious Studies PhD and then been offered admission at the Div School for an MAR. Though it certainly has happened, eh??

I think most do not, though I have heard that Chicago commonly does this for most of their humanities applicants for their sort of catch-all MA humanities degree (which I think most receive 50% funding, but rarely is it fully funded).

You might talk to the ILL people. I know here they often will do the work for you and just send you a pdf of the document (or contact the school that has the document and receive a pdf).

NOOO. Someone should have screenshot that amazing beast.

Speaking of...me and another fellow student are still looking for people (one even) to split a hotel cost in Baltimore AAR/SBL. We are not insane people, I swear. Just trying to make the trip as cheap as possible. I will gladly sleep on the floor. ANYONE?

I come bearing levity! (ノ ◑‿◑)ノ But really, how about we all come back to this thread in a couple months and list our GRE scores, acceptances, (mostly) denials, and waitlists.

Glad you said it so I didn't have to...hehe. OP, all joking aside, if you are truly a conservative Christian (which is of course fine), you most likely would not enjoy your time at any of the 'mainline' divinity/theological schools nor in most secular philosophy departments. I have studied in both, am an atheist, and I imagine people like me would make you want to end yourself in class (heh). Not that people like me are pushing our agenda during class, but if I am to be honest, there is an agenda in many 'mainline' departments and that is: leave it at the door. I'm not saying there are not certain theological classes where folks talk about their own points of view (I'm in biblical studies), but if you go to class and use conservative theological arguments I don't think you would 1) proceed very well in the department (because most people would not agree with you) 2) nor would you get what you are looking for out of such an institution. As far as professors with fancy degrees at conservative schools, sure, I don't doubt it happens. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe you would want to transition from more than likely a very liberal place (mainline div schools) to a conservative school setting. It happens I have no doubt and honestly I don't have enough experience to really offer any other point of view than what I already have, so I freely welcome any and all advice from the rest of you!

If you are a conservative Christian and plan to only work at conservative schools thereafter, then yeah, those schools would likely suite your needs. But, as Lux said, if you want to work at any 'mainstream'/large theology/religious studies dept. in a private or state uni, such an education would not land you a ton (any?) of jobs, I imagine, especially in the current academic job market. Then again, a degree from the big name universities would likely keep you from working at any of those more conservative schools. So I think it just depends on what you wanna do end game. For what it's worth, most of the people on this board are interested in those 'mainstream' departments (read Lux above). My point is that many of us are biased and simply have no experience with the schools you listed. Maybe somebody else will chime in with some specifics about those schools!

I did Middlebury's German school last year. They offer quite a few scholarships for both undergrads and grads. The money, if available, varies of course, but I think most of the people I met there got at least some money. I got around 4,500 from Middlebury, then I got the rest funded through my department (summer grant, thankfully).

If we are to be honest, Drew, Iliff, and Claremont, while fantastic programs, simply do not get as many applicants (esp. Claremont). I'm not saying you don't need a good score to get in, but I doubt having anything lower than 75% would cause too much concern. Yale, of course, is a different story. Who knows. A friend got into their PhD program two years ago with a verbal in the 80's, so score requirements are never as strict as some claim. Though, again, I'm sure the people with 90%+ there are higher than those with below 90%. Meh.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Speak with each department to get specifics. I imagine it varies from place to place. I have seen a lot of 'religious studies' departments that mostly take students with MTS/MA (theology) degrees, while others don't seem to like them (e.g. they usually don't require language exams, etc.). For what it's worth, when I was at BC there was a lot of cross listing between philosophy and theology courses, so even as a 'theology' major you could be in fact taking mostly philosophy classes. 'Theology' means much different things depending on where you're studying. I think most of the places you would apply (PhD) will be aware of this, either from familiarity with your school/professors, or by looking at your CV, SOP, writing sample, and so on.

And in response to ND's ECS. Yes, you might as well apply to some of those programs, mostly because they are fully funded. But, considering that program is as competitive as many PhD programs, I would not count on getting in without good reason (faculty, fit, etc.).

Since you are already at Union I would stay, unless you can't find anyone to work with. You may also consider some of the programs at Columbia (I remember them having some sort of interdisciplinary MA program for classics/religion). Because it is quite common for folks to get two masters, you may finish up there and then get a ThM (after the MA) at one of the 'big' schools you mention above. Also, I have met several Union grads at top programs. It has a good reputation and I see no reason for you to leave, especially if you are going to another school to take intro Hebrew, etc. The grass is always greener my friend.

Only one way to find out. If missing one or two questions on a verbal test about fish research keeps me out of a good problem. Well, I guess there isn't much I can do.