sacklunch

Good question. No idea. I have seen so many threads over the years I don't know what to think. Some people say 'good luck getting in without 95%+" others say "dude I know got in with 75% verbal." Meh. I have no idea. I imagine having above 80% is more or less the minimum (verbal). But, as you said, it varies dept. to dept (and set by the graduate school usually).

Late Antique is now in the PhD program in theology at ND. You should be able to find him somewhere around here. Also, be aware that program is very competitive. I think they accept one or two people a year. You may also consider doing some related degree (MTS, MA, etc.) if you need some other 'safe' options.

It's always an issue of funding, especially as an undergraduate. If you are fortunately wealthy, you may consider studying at an intensive language program, either here such as Middlebury, or abroad (Germany is a popular choice). The latter option, at least through many Universities, can be funded/loaned. But I understand why not everyone would want to go into such debt. Another point to make besides what to do in your summers (which, you can always relax!), is making the best of the academic year, even if that means staying beyond the traditional four year BA. Your preparation in undergrad will directly influence where you go after (presumably masters, unless you are awesome). Thus, staying on to make sure you are well-prepared isn't a bad idea. I may get some hell for saying this, but I would have benefited from staying on another semester or two and adding another minor (German, French, etc.). Point being, if you have opportunities there make the best use of them, whether in the summer or during the year, especially in those less obvious fields (for many) of language. You will eventually have to take courses in these and honestly this is the no.1 reason that keeps people from being competitive. If, as you mention, you head to a masters program interested in NT and you have no coursework in Greek, you are going to be at quite a disadvantage from all the other applicants in your cohort that came in with two years of classical (and thus when you apply for doctoral programs they are going to have 2x the coursework).

Toronto auch (Religion and NELC)

FWIW a few off the top of my head: BC - Theo ND UPenn - Religious Studies/NELC UNC-CH Michigan (?)

I don't think it would be wise to submit scores without at least one quant completed. Again, I am not asking about verbal/quant scores for humanities vs. sciences. This is all fairly obvious for anyone frequenting the board. I was just wondering if anyone had any experience/insight about sending two score sets, one with a complete set along with a verbal/writing/NS-Quant. cheers

Right. Well, the people I know doing this already have a quant. score (as I mentioned). So they are sending in two scores: an older complete set with a lower verbal, and a new partial set with higher verbal, writing, and NS on quant. So they still have a quant. score, just not on one of the scores.

A couple fellow students (masters at a top 10) and I have been talking about the more recent ability to not take certain portions of the GRE, giving you the NS (no score). I know that one of them has retaken the GRE verbal/writing and taken a NS for the quant. He previously did well enough on the quant , but wanted to raise his verbal score. So he will obviously be sending in his first score set with all the scores, but a newer score with just the verbal/writing (which is better). I have another friend who is planning on doing the same thing within the next week or so. How do you think this will look to adcoms? I imagine it will vary from department to department, in that some may only see the top scores anyways (compiled from a secretary beforehand without any notification that they ever had an NS, took the GRE multiple times, and so on). But because it is new I haven't had much luck searching online for feedback on this 'strategy.' best

There has been an ongoing thread on one of the other sections about sub 3.0 GPA acceptances. You may check that out to give you an idea how to approach your GPA in your SOP. Next, funding. Unfortunately MDiv's almost always offer better funding than the 'academic' degrees. This is of course not always the case, but I think we can all agree the 'big' div schools fully fund more MDiv's than any of the others (MTS, MAR, MA, etc.). Point being, you may consider applying to some of these programs even if you're not religious/spiritual/so on. Harvard of course is one of the better places for 'non-traditional' MDiv students to study. Though I also have met some Jews and Muslims who did MDiv's at Yale. Both schools also happen to fully fund many of their students. My comments get at the larger issue of 'religious studies' versus 'theology/divinity'. Be aware that many departments, especially the latter, may in fact not be very "theological" at all. On the other hand, if you apply to Duke or PTS as, say a Muslim pursuing an MDiv....well, I'm not entirely sure what would happen actually. Anyone have some insight? On the former, 'religious studies' departments, tend to be smaller and thus much more competitive (some fully fund, many do not, also). Yes, this sucks. But the money is in 'divinity' for better or worse. The point here, yet again, is you may consider applying to some of these more liberal divinity schools, many having faculty outside the 'Abrahamic faiths'. Accordingly your SOP may differ a bit than a traditional academic religious studies MA. I just wanted to bring awareness to these details so you don't get lost in all the confusing and at times conflicting language. I know whenever I venture over to some UK department websites I often get confused. Anyways, I'm rambling. I hope that gives you somewhere to start and hopefully others will chime in with more specific information pertaining to your interests (as Sarah has done).

You just blew my mind. I don't know why I never thought about doing the reading comp/longer questions first. THANKS MATE.

Damn. You are golden. I bow to your scores!

As Sarah mentioned, it really depends on if you're applying for a masters or PhD. I would suggest applying for a range of masters programs. That will give you a chance to show a high(er) GPA when you apply for doctoral work. Even for the MA SOP, focus on your unique background, language fluency (which will be well above the average student here in your proposed field, I'm sure), and your specific research experience. This will help your chances of acceptance at the big name MA programs substantially. As Sarah said, you should apply to some of the bigger div schools, like HDS. I remember there was a fella on here a couple years ago with around a 2.5 UG GPA that got into HDS (MTS), though applying for an MDiv degree is also not a bad idea (more acceptances, more courses). Also, your GRE scores for an international applicant are actually pretty good (masters). You may consider retaking for the hell of it, but I wouldn't be too concerned at this point (again, for masters). cheers

Another consideration is where the school broadly fits theologically. I have been told by several professors at Catholic (Jesuit) schools that it is more difficult to get a job at Protestant schools, than for example the opposite. Looking through the faculty at many of the big name Prot. schools seems to verify this. So you may be put at a slight advantage going to a secular or Prot. school. Then again, this may all change. There has been, as I think most of you will agree, a rising interest in patristics and church history from the Prot. side (and thankfully, rising Catholic interests in biblical studies). Meh, my .02.

Sent you a PM.

Without the language component you will almost certainly not get in to any competitive PhD programs in contemporary Islam. You will need a masters, some go for two. Begin your languages, perhaps spend the summers in an Arabic speaking country, and after you will likely have a lot better idea where to apply for a PhD.

As far as I know, no. You will need to verify you have funding before arriving. I don't think they expect people to have funding lined up before even being accepted.

You nailed it. The only exception may be Canadian schools, which seem to take a middle of the road approach (e.g. Toronto says to state your intended topic). This is precisely why American admissions are so difficult: you have to walk that fine line between being specific, letting them know you get it, while also being broad enough for them to "mold you." The best thing you can do is have your SOP ripped apart time and time again by a trusted professor.

It happens all the time. I know quite a few people who had zero contact and were accepted. It's a crap shoot, as everyone says. It may help to contact them, but it may make no difference. Du was du willst, mate.

MDiv acceptance rates are overall pretty high, so I think 5 or 6 is plenty. If you even moderately competitive, I suspect you will be admitted to your top three (i.e. GPA above 3.5, good letters, and a solid SOP).

I'm planning on going, but I have no hotel! If anyone is going, and wants to split a room, or if you already have one and you want another guy to split the cost, let me know! I would happily sleep on the floor, bathroom floor, entertainment set, or wherever you can shove me! Feel free to PM me!

The confusion is understandable. If you really want to determine the trajectory of a department, look at their research (and their students). Department names are often misleading. Consider how many programs have the title theology, divinity, Christianity, Judaism, et cetera, yet much of the research that goes on is in no way related to "theology" proper (e.g. systematics). Of course, the names matter to a certain degree, I think, once you are on the job market, though most people will be familiar enough with your program to know what type of research generally goes on there (theological, historical-critical, intellectual history, and so on).

Considering almost all ThM's are not funded, it depends on how much money you think is reasonable to spend. The most valuable part, as you mentioned, would be current recommendations. Then again, the letter writers would have not had you for a complete semester, so it's difficult to say how 'good' the letters would be. Another reason a lot of people in similar situations get t ThM is to improve their language skills. In EC you are going to need a fair amount of Latin and Greek, as well as German/French, so that is another advantage for the degree. .02

I suspect that varies a great deal. Though I think most of us would agree that having your recs personally know profs at X school helps. I have heard that in private from several of my professors over the years. Then again, a lot of other applicants have advisers that know prof. X personally, too. Still, again, you are at a considerable advantage if they are reading recs from other folks they trust.

I sent you a PM. Depending on the school a lot of folks apply to both programs. But that assumes they are distinct (NELC vs Div, ect).

Damn GRE....if it makes you feel better there are quite a few of us that have shoddy scores.