sacklunch

This. I'm at Duke now, for what it's worth, and you would be surprised how many people came from smaller, unknown schools. There are, of course, plenty of 'those guys' who went to Harvard for undergrad. But honestly I would say most of it is just being motivated.

Hebrew and Syriac should be somewhat easy to keep up (assuming you are staying within MT/Peshitta). If you have Accordance or Bibleworks it may make things easier. I have the Peshitta module for accordance 10 and I can follow along with MT easily, both to help me translate (since I have had a lot less Syriac) and to see where P may be translating from a different Vorlage(n) (so that keeps you up on not only the language, but pays off in the long run by seeing tendencies, ect). Greek may be a bit more of a pain, depending on your area. Staying within the NT will hinder you in the long run, I think. You may consider bringing along some accessible Greek texts with you, or just as easily use TLG + an online translation. I would say if you can fit in maybe an hour a day (maybe more, maybe less) working with the texts you can keep most of what you have learned. You may even consider looking at MT vis-a-vis P and LXXB and just make a real effort to identify all the various binyanim, ect.

Well said. I hope I didn't appear insensitive. And to be clear, as an atheist, I do not uphold the tenets of science anymore than I do religious ones, to be honest. I have followed, as I feel it, the 'logical' conclusions of my secularism that life has no meaning, ultimately, and that I have no moral foundation. This depresses me and to be honest in order to live day to day I must pretend as if I have a reason. And to even attempt to justify any opinion is a contradiction (for my worldview). Perhaps I was influenced too much by Christian (Catholic) philosophy as an UG. I try to be responsible with the 'evidence' as I see it, which includes your (correct) summation of modern philosophy. Anyways, good chat, friends. best

I have encountered a lot of (various) Protestants who run into this problem. I sympathize, being that I became an atheist, in part, because of this 'problem.' Though I admit there are better avenues to approach Judaism/Christianity than saying 'if the bible isn't inerrant then it's all false.' Though I just have to ask: At what point do you abandon all of it? Is that even a possibility for you/him? There seems to be a lot of 'leg work' just to make it all work together. But I feel if you were presented with the 'evidence' (that is, modern textual-criticism which shows that it clearly can not be inerrant) you likely would not buy into much of it, if any. On the flip side my Catholic seminary friends never ran into this problem. It's just something that rarely came up (though BC is liberal, perhaps that's why). But I'm still confused. All of the theology which they lean on (instead of purely biblical material) was created by a bunch of biblical exegetes who quite clearly did not understand the pluriformity of biblical material that we now know today. Anyways, I don't want to dissuade you or him from furthering whatever particular faith you/he holds. I'm merely trying to 'preach my own gospel' . ps - when did the gradcafe become confessional?!?!

Not to be a downer...but what exactly are we supposed to do with our BAs in religion?? You are in science (Planetary, your sig says), and I imagine having your BSc in physics may actually land you a job. For the rest of us, we either can 1) work at Walmart or 2) go to grad school...and then maybe work at Walmart after ( )....so there is the temptation for us to go on, hoping we will be that 25% to actually land a job. And even if we are not that 25%, but end up working as an adjunct, we will still make what someone makes at Walmart, but maybe hate our life a bit less. We are screwed in almost every way. So I figure we might as well take the least shitty option. Oh and to those who say "There is a lot you can with a BA in religion/philosophy/theology!" I say, good luck. I have TONS of friends with these degrees who are working PT at the local Home Depot because there is no other option. Anyways, I don't want to be an asshole, just pointing out the reality that many of us will, one day, have to face. cheers

Though I have to mention...we are taught, 'trained' even, that without a PhD we are worthless. I was actually having this very conversation with a guy in my cohort over lunch and he has lately said he isn't sure if it's even worth all the trouble even applying, since as the article(s) say, IF you finish and IF you happen to land a job it will still pay shit. One of the articles buzzing around Facebook, which reports findings from early this year, says that 75% of teaching positions are adjuncts. That is wild and insanely discouraging.

You don't need to be present outside of class. I don't think any professor would care and even if you were hanging around campus everyday they likely wouldn't notice you. Do well in class (spend adequate time on assignments, papers, and participate in class) and you will do just fine.

Thanks mate. Gives me some sense of relief...I'm going to start doing reading comp stuff now. And yeah, I am pretty stoked (scared?) about Middlebury's program. It should move my German along nicely! cheers

The writing section is pretty worthless, I think. Without studying it seems like most folks get 4+. I got a 4.5 and I was pretty surprised. I figured I would get a 5+ with all the GRE words I dropped...though who knows? I'm actually curious about the math, too. I have been working more on the math lately (but also memorizing words as I walk to class everyday). I know some programs associate math with language ability (though if they look at my transcript that should not be the case...). What did some of you score in doctoral programs? It's sad, but I'm not sure if I can go much beyond 50-60% without spending a ton of time on the damn thing...time is always the problem. And I'm going to Middlebury this summer (German) so I don't think I will have much time for that (nor do they technically allow you to read non-German materials...) thoughts?

You may look into some of the repayment plans, such as Income Based Repayment. When I'm finally done I will also be in a ton of debt and I'm relieved/comforted that such programs exist. You would likely pay about half that a month (500ish, maybe less), though you would likely be paying for up to 20 years (and then all is forgiven). Take that for it is. But it's a real option for those of us who went to school in Boston and owe insane moneys.

Yup. Same at BC. The majority was MTS. Some stereotypes are true, some are not. Many of the ones that are true are based on the fact that MDiv students have to take a TON of requirements (and thus cannot have the same type of specificity that MTS/MAR have). If you want to be ordained, and also go into academia, it is the path you must follow. This is why a lot of MDiv's end up getting ThM/STM's. cheers

Good to hear. I was a bit concerned reading this....Actually looking at the 'average' scores listed for top programs I'm not terribly worried. Seems like 80%+ is 'good enough' (though not ideal).

I think it depends where you go. On academia.edu I try to browse CV's to get a sense of different backgrounds. Seems like way more have MTS/MAR/MA, but who knows. The word is that HDS' MDiv is basically an MTS+1. Others (like Duke) seem to fill your degree with requirements.

If not for your desire to be ordained I would skip the MDiv, especially at places like Duke. If your goal is academia then it's quite a pain to go through all that, from what I have seen. Most MDiv programs seem to have such a strict curriculum it leaves little room for electives (substantial language work to prepare for PhD, for example). Plus having an intro course with over 100 people....I have heard it's not the best learning environment (to put it kindly). Because many folks come in without theology/religious studies backgrounds (viz. biblical studies), they have to tailor many of the required courses for folks who have never had any coursework in said field...and thus they end up being more like undergraduate seminars (I may get burned for saying that, but it's what I have heard from people at both BC and Duke). Depending on your subfield my comments are moot. *edit* I will say at least here at Duke our department's (Religion) course size is usually below 10. All of my classes in the dept. this year are less than 5...yet my friends across the building have classes often with over 50 students. Weird.

I know A LOT of folks who did English/Theology (Religion) instead of Classics. I'm really happy I spent at least a couple years in UG learning some of that stuff....but meh, I prolly would have gone to a different school if I had to do it over again. What can you do about it now? Nothin. One of the reasons folks in religion/theology (particularly biblical studies) need multiple degrees is because many of us didn't come in with all the proper coursework...compared to a lot of other fields where you don't need a working knowledge of 3-4 languages before starting a PhD...I can't even imagine trying to break into the field with having, i dunno, a engineering major.

Languages. I came into my first M* program with Greek and Latin and it still wasn't enough. In biblical studies, coming into your M* degree with Greek, Hebrew, Latin and German would be ideal. So...get movin ya'll ....No, but really, in hindsight I would have triple majored in Classics, German, and Religion/Theology (I did Theology, Philosophy, and Classics instead).

I guess I'm not as concerned with any department's staff. The limited time you actually have to deal with them makes the trouble negligible. It's one thing if they are straight up being assholes, but it seems like they are just really busy. Once you arrive at a graduate program you are not there to mingle with the staff. Now if the faculty were acting that way....that's another thing entirely. I remember before my MTS thinking some of the same things. I vividly remember a lady at Vanderbilt being really rude to me (admissions) and it left a bad impression about the program after. But I had to remind myself that is one tiny experience that is likely not representative of an entire school/department. I attempted to make the choice where I wanted to go based off of their faculty (fit) and secondly smaller things like that.

Just hold out. A department's staff has little to do with the overall feel of what it's like to be at a school. The Div school is HUGE and accepts/has more MDiv students than most. I imagine they are dealing with literally hundreds of students' aid. You all have til the 15th, right?

I have the 'advanced' Manhattan and honestly it isn't very difficult. *Sigh* Ill keep looking. Thanks ya'll.

Congrats! I didn't think either school gave any money out at all (except for the one international scholarship)!

So I have both the Kaplan and Manhattan flashcards, which overlap about 80% of the time. And to be honest I found I knew the majority of them already...however, when I go take practice tests I encounter all these insane words I have never even SEEN. Anyone have advice on where to find flashcards that are more difficult?? best

That's great advice, thank you!

The above post summed up a lot of the disadvantages to BC (compared to the MARc). But truthfully, I'm not sure if any degree can compare with the MARc, regardless if it's HDS or Chicago. I have heard from several people on this board that BC's MTS students do not necessarily do well in doctoral admissions, but I think this may have more to do with how new the program is. It's hard to gauge how competitive the program is when it hasn't been around terribly long (MTS formed in 2008). For what it's worth, two friends I went to BC (MTS) with who were serious about doctoral admissions both were offered good spots: one is at ND and the other at Yale, while another chose a similar path I did and is getting another M* at ND. The good thing about the program is you are able to take as many classes as you'd like in BC-theo dept (PhD). In fact I took more there than I did in the STM. So really, you can get an MTS with only having taken classes in the theology department. And, like the other BTI schools, you have the option of taking up to 50% of your courses elsewhere. I applied to the MARc back then and was denied (2nd Temple). If I had been accepted I would have gladly accepted (over BC, and my other offers). Though money is always an issue. In short, (if you can deal with the possible debt) go where the best faculty are for your interests.

PM'd you.

I would go with HDS. The level of competition from others with multiple masters in your field is a real threat and getting a solid two years in graduate courses, I think, will give you an edge (or at least put you on the playing field). As for HDS being a 'cash cow'....meh. Word around the street is they are facing financial troubles like everyone else. Several years ago they often gave full rides to may of their masters students (unheard of in almost any other field), but now it seems the new standard is 50%. And because this isn't in a religion section (as most questions relating to HDS are), I will say that it is more or less expected to have one M* degree (and in my field I think two makes you competitive). It is unfortunate (and most other fields in the humanities do not seem to need this), but it's the reality. You could consider waiting a year and reapplying, but knowing a lot of doctoral students in religion/theology myself, you will unlikely get a spot unless you had a VERY focused BA. cheers