2711383
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Posts posted by 2711383
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Thought it would be a good idea to open a thread now that the application is about to open. Anyone else here considering applying?
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Whatever you do, don't enroll in an all-online MA that costs $57,000. 99.9% of SAIS's added value comes from its location and network.
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1 hour ago, columbia09 said:
How when it’s only testing math and vocabulary skills? My opinion, subject tests would be great indicators instead of a test that sees if you’re a walking dictionary
I agree on verbal, it's not a good indicator of anything. But if you're going into a quantitative subject and can't do well in the high school level algebra of the GRE, it's a pretty huge red flag for adcoms.
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Also the MPA isn't for people coming out of college. Most MPA admits have 4+ years of experience.
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46 minutes ago, columbia09 said:
The mason program is for if you’re coming from a developing country (I’m in the US). Which is unfair for us and also if you’re applying from Israel it isn’t required. Totally unfair.
Yes it is a new development, they were talking about throwing it out for awhile because the program is for working professionals. The MPA is mostly geared for people coming right out of college
Lol how is it unfair for you when the GRE is tailor made for US students. That's the main reason why most of Europe doesn't bother with it (except for the UK with quantitative programs)
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13 hours ago, prokem said:
Agree with the above on #2. I think you should be fine to do that. In terms of how to decide which to go with, I think that you should prioritize 1) how close you were with the professor, and relatedly, how well they can speak to your abilities, and 2) how relevant the content of their letter can be to the curriculums of the programs you're applying to. I would choose based on those two factors rather than the grade you got (imo). I think that it's also important for you to zoom out a bit and assess the strengths and weaknesses of your application (for example, quant experience/GREs, relevant work/research experience, etc) and how one of these recommenders may help balance out a weak point, if at all possible, though that bit of advice might not be relevant based on what you said. Hope that helps a little!
14 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:1. I'm assuming you went to a US school.
2. I think you can pull this off as long as you have someone who can vouch for your economic/math/analytical skills on the professional side of the house. You can have the Causes of War professor comment on your ability to learn/interact with others and etc.
3. I know of some professors who won't write letters of rec if you didn't get a A- or above... but that is dependent on each professor of course.
Hmm.. So I think the better letter would come from the Causes of War prof. But if we're talking about weaknesses in my application, my quant experience and GREs are very solid. The one weakness (which is a kinda big one considering the programs I'm applying to) is not enough economics coursework. I pretty much only meet the minimum economics requirements for all the programs. That's why I initially considered the International Finance prof (but then again that class was pretty straightforward and I didn't do any research in it).
On the professional side I can definitely get someone to talk about my economic/analytical skills. Maybe Causes of War is the way to go..
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So I'm applying to masters programs and I'm running into the issue most people have here. I graduated over 3 years ago and I'm almost certain none of my professors remember me. I'm trying to pivot from IR into economics or government programs with a strong economics component. I've asked around and most programs I'm interested in want at least 1 academic reference.
I was thinking of asking a professor that taught me international finance my senior year. She was really nice and always talked about being open to help students with this sort of thing. However, I just realized I got a B+ in her class, not an A- like I thought. And that might be problematic for adcoms..
Now I'm thinking of asking my Causes of War professor. I got an A- in that class and I think that might've been the class where I did the most serious, academic research in my undergraduate career. I remember him also mentioning that he was good letter writer, and he did get a few classmates pretty great international/national security-related jobs after graduation so I guess that was true. However, nothing in the class relates to the programs I'm applying to now. Would it be a mistake to ask for his recommendation?
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2 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:
...they also require linear algebra, calculus up to multivariable, and a proofs course?
For admissions questions, you should look on the websites of the programs you are interested in and, if they are not answered there, contact admissions.
Yes I stated in the OP that I meet those requirements...
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1 hour ago, columbia09 said:
Why are all these government programs so quantitative heavy ? I feel like how they’re portrayed I’m going into a physics or chem program. If you have a quantitative background (studied science here), do you still have to submit a GRE? Or is the GRE only for those with no quantitative course work for Princeton?
The GRE is required of all applicants (if we're talking about the MPA, it seems to have been waived for the MPP this round). I think I need to reiterate that they're not "quantitatively heavy" and in no way comparable to a physics or chem, or even economics program. The differential calculus MPAs and MPPs use for their economics courses is literally first semester calculus. A lot of undergrad schools require you to take it regardless of your major because it's basic and part of a core curriculum. Freshmen skip it all the time because they already know it if they took IB or AP math.
If you have a quantitative background then I'm assuming you already took math courses all the way up to at least multivariable calculus? The quant stuff in these programs shouldn't be an issue if that's the case.
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The core curriculum requires calculus based micro and macro economics courses, as well as a quantitative methods course that covers probability theory. None of this requires by any means advanced math but you will be required to know basic calculus to succeed in these classes. Any other decent MPP/MPA worth anyone's time or money will cover calculus based economics. I know HKS, SIPA, and SAIS all have similar required economics and quantitative methods courses.
When people say that Princeton is "quant heavy" it's because you have the option to take the economics or development tracks that will require you to apply more advanced quant methods, but as long as you're good at math and open to learning this stuff, it shouldn't be an issue.
As far as how it'll affect you in the application process, the blog post I linked states that students are sometimes admitted without any quantitative coursework as long as they perform well in the quant portion of the GRE. Nobody outside of the admissions committee can give you any more information than that.
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Our MPA has a quantitative core curriculum. As a result, we are looking for applicants to demonstrate their quantitative preparation. Some demonstrate this through undergraduate coursework in statistics, math or economics. Others show this through their professional pursuits. Each year, there are a number of applicants who did not have the chance to take quantitative coursework in college. Some didn’t know they needed to take foundational courses for policy school, while others did not have room in their course schedules. Whatever the reason, for those without the expected quantitative coursework, the GRE can serve as evidence of quantitative reasoning experience not otherwise apparent in the file. In some cases, there is no other evidence a student has the background in basic math that would allow them to get through the core curriculum. Without the GRE, we may not admit some students who could succeed in our MPA program. We more often use the GRE score to pull candidates into the class, not to “weed them out.”
From here:https://spia.princeton.edu/blogs/gre-requirements-degree
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I would add to this that given recent.. complications.. for international students to stay in the US post-graduation, STEM designated programs are looked at a lot more favorably. I know I'll personally only be applying to STEM programs. A lot of policy schools have already smarted up and achieved STEM designation for at least one of their programs: HKS has the MPA/ID, SAIS has the MIEF, Heinz has the MSPPM:DA, McCourt has the DSPP, Harris has the MSCAPP and the MAPSS QMSA, etc.
I like Fletcher and the MALD program, but it's not worth it for me to study IR or public policy without the chance to stay in the US and maybe network in DC or New York. Same goes for SIPA. I consider myself a great fit for a couple of their programs and I know I would easily get in, but it's not worth it without the two year OPT extension.
Going back to your point about UK schools, the UK is now allowing students to stay in the country working for two years after graduation, and after that it's much, much easier to score a work visa in the UK than an H1B in the US. Sciences Po is also in the competition, and if you manage to find a job in France after the completion of a two year master's, you're allowed to stay there indefinitely.
To be honest, if it wasn't because of how much some (not all) US schools blow European schools out of the water in terms of program quality and network, I wouldn't even bother with applying to the US. I probably won't if Trump gets elected to a second term because not even STEM grads will be safe then.
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Schools/Programs Applying To: HKS MPA/ID (mostly concerned with getting my chances for this one evaluated), Princeton MPA, SAIS MIEF, Yale IDE, maybe Harris MPP
Undergraduate institution: Top 10 IR school
Undergraduate GPA: 3.55
Undergraduate Major: International Affairs
GRE Quantitative Score: 168
GRE Verbal Score: 169
GRE AW Score: 5.0
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3.5 by the time I apply, 4 by the time I enroll
Years of Work Experience: 3.5 by the time I apply, 4 by the time I enrollQuant Experience: Only took Calculus I (A-) in college, but I've been working on improving my quant portfolio. I have now taken Intro to Stats (A), Calculus II (A), Linear Algebra and Real Analysis (A-) (this last one is a proof based linear algebra and multivariable differential calculus course with a real analysis module)
Econ Experience: Here's where I'm lacking, and I can't really take any more courses before applying due to professional commitments + I need to save money for grad school. In college I took Intro to Macro (A), Intro to Micro (B, ouch), Intro to International Economics (A-)
Describe Relevant Work Experience: Among other things, 6 months as an intern at a DC think tank doing research on my region of expertise, 1 year at a political risk start up in my developing country, 1 (2 by the time I enroll) years doing high level policy advisory work for big companies in my developing country. I don't want to go into too much detail with this last one, but my work is development related, which I know the HKS MPA/ID values.
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Haven't started writing this yet, but I'm confident in my narrative.
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc):
Two of them will be strong, one from my former boss and one from my current boss, both high level people in my country, one of them well known in political science circles abroad. Third might not be so strong, I'm currently looking for the right college professor to write me a letter (it's been a while since I graduated and I unfortunately haven't kept in touch)Questions I have: I meet the minimum requirements for all of the programs I listed but I can't tell whether I'm competitive. Clearly my GRE is one of my strongest areas, and I think my work experience will be impressive if I manage to explain correctly why that is. But my GPA is average, and probably below average for the places I'm applying to. I know that over half of MPA/ID students are econ majors so I'm also not sure how much my IR background holds me back.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated
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On 8/4/2020 at 6:35 PM, ExponentialDecay said:
Otherwise, get a 2 year masters in econ with a thesis option. If you want to go to a prestigious econ school (not at all a requirement to be a successful career economist, unless you want to be head of DEC or a Harvard professor), get a prestigious econ masters, like PSE or Bocconi. One year taught masters at places like LSE are not prestigious. One year taught masters that track the top 10-25% of the class into the PhD, like BGSE, are prestigious. Your best source of info on the internet is urch.com
Do these programs (especially PSE and Bocconi) admit students with political science backgrounds? Part of the reason why the MPA/ID is so attractive is because they only require that I have taken Micro I and Macro I.
Also, I know that LSE's EME is the PhD prep program of the school, but what about their 2 year taught Economics MSc?
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8 hours ago, Boolakanaka said:
WWS....there is a very good reason why their name was changed—Princeton School of Public and International Affairs.
That's too long and everyone knows what I'm talking about.
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I graduated a while (3 years) ago with an IR major. In the time since I've become very interested in economics and have been exploring the possibility of opening up a path towards an econ PhD.
My math background is strong (for an IR major, not for an econ major). I've taken Calculus 1-3, Stats, and a proof based linear algebra course with a real analysis module.
My econ background is not so strong, just intro to micro and intro to macro and then some tangential courses like international economics, international finance, and international political economy.
I think the best path forward would be a very quantitatively heavy MPP/MPA that keeps the professional door open for me while also letting me take grad-level econ and math courses that can help me get good letters for an eventual econ PhD.
I know the MPA/ID would be the ideal program for this. The econ track at WWS would also be pretty great (less confident about getting in there, though). I think the SAIS MIEF could be useful but maybe a little too short and professionally geared to help with PhD applications.
Any others I should consider?
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Just take the test, it's never been easier to take it.
- lapomegranate and fossati
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The *one* thing that matters for a masters program (if you're not aiming for academia) is job placements. Take a look at where graduates of the programs you're looking at work. Sciences Po is a very well respected institution in Europe. I don't know that much about their IR program specifically, but I've been reading up on their International Economic Policy MA and its graduates end up in pretty cool places like J-PAL and the OECD.
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Then, as I said, you were a really good candidate relative to the rest of the people that applied...
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2 hours ago, columbia09 said:
So what changes can they implement
I mean there's obviously a chance they'll make it "optional". But as with most programs that have the GRE as optional, you don't really have that much of an option unless you're a top candidate.
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2 hours ago, columbia09 said:
I saw that. I can see them getting rid of it completely this year.
I got an email from HKS telling me how much they value a high GRE score for the MPA/ID in the last week, so I really doubt they would completely remove it.
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I'm looking for programs like the HKS MPA/ID or the SAIS MIEF that 1. have a strong focus on quantitative methods and 2. are STEM designated.
Are there any others like these?
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15 minutes ago, Theory007 said:
American non-phd programs are not very competitive but the program HKS is probably more competitive than others although not more competitive than many phd programs. Your GRE score is great and your math background excellent and you will stand out for these reasons. You are right to think that adcoms will find it strange that you never took intermediate courses in economics for a program that requires (Im guessing) phd level coursework in economics, where the difficulty is x10 compared to the intermediate courses. I suppose it all depends on how competitive the program really is and how many applicants it takes; you have one obvious deficiency and many applicants will not have any. Either way, this is not a reason not to apply. You'll have a good chance of getting in so do apply. And you will also be competitive for many great phd programs (although it's always hard to get in), especially with those GRE scores. If you get into one of those you wont have to pay tuition and will probably also receive a stipend. So I'd apply to HKA is I was you and possibly a bunch of phd programs if I was you.
Thanks for the feedback! This really does give me a lot of confidence. Not sure how competitive I'd be for PhDs (at least PhDs I'd want to be in) considering my research experience consists almost entirely of 5 months as an intern at a think tank and a research assistantship doing one political risk consulting job for a small IFI (I've mostly been doing "professional" policy work this past couple of years).
There's a space in the HKS application where you can address any academic shortcomings, and I'm wondering whether it'd be a good idea to say that I feel confident about excelling in the program's economics courses? I've been going through MWG (the standard first year graduate micro textbook, which the MPA/ID uses) and while some concepts seem fairly complicated at first, none of them seem unreasonable to me (yet).. Or would that come across as smug or overconfident to the adcom?
MA Economics - PhD stepping stone
in Economics Forum
Posted
In the US, yes. In Europe, no.
OP that's a bad list, starting with the fact that UCSD doesn't even have a terminal MA program in economics. The standard US MA programs that have good placements into PhDs are Duke, UT, Wisconsin, and Chicago MAPSS (econ track). Tufts and BU are good but not as good as the ones I mentioned before. Columbia is decent but from what I understand you mostly take classes with adjuncts which will not be good for your LoRs.
Take a look at programs in Europe as well. Doing a masters before your PhD is much more common over there.
Also this isn't a good forum for econ advice. I'd suggest asking for help in Urch, which is much more active.
EJMR is filled with racists and trolls but if you can tell between what's trolling and what's genuine advice it can be an ok resource as well (just confirm that what they've told you is true because sometimes it's hard to tell when they're just messing with you).