teasel

Aww, my heart goes out to all the people who are having imposter syndrome. I've felt that internal merry-go-round, too, at various points throughout this process (and I'm sure I will again), but I just wanted to offer a thought about it that I hope can help.
Someone above mentioned feeling like their life revolved around these applications. One, that shows how much you care about this process, so I'd consider that aspect of it a positive, so don't be too hard on yourself, love. ❤️ However, I also wanted to posit a thought for reflection: have you thought about who/what you place your sense of worth or identity in? If you place your sense of self-worth, or sense of success, or even your sense of identity solely on whether or not you get accepted into these programs, that could be a part of why you're feeling like your life revolves around these applications. You are absolutely more than whether or not you get into an MFA program this year, or ever, and maybe remembering that you are a multi-faceted person, with so, so much to offer the world, who also happens to have other hobbies and interests and dreams and thoughts to offer the world, and that can still be offered to the world, both in and out of an MFA program--just expanding your idea of what success can look like, or even what makes you "you," might be a place to start to help assuage some of the obsessive checking.
I hope you get in, and I hope all your dreams come true in a way that helps you become the best version of yourself. God bless you, friend, and sending you hugs and encouragement over these interwebz in the interim. ❤️

Honestly, this happened to me last year. I was constantly checking gradcafe every five minutes, I wasn’t concentrating on school, I was looking at my email waiting and waiting for something that never came.
When I got rejected from everywhere I attempted to...well...Anyway, I know the prospect of not getting in on the first try is scary, but I feel like I learned more from trying again and recovering from my disaster application season.
This probably won’t ease anyone’s anxiety (‘cause the majority of you are first time applicants if I’m correct), but take it from me. If all goes wrong this year, there is another year coming.

Yea, I transferred to a senior college as well after getting my prereqs. I got a full scholarship for being a transfer student because I did well in community college, and that was invaluable. There are more resources at a University, but it can be super helpful for financing an education by getting prereqs done at a community college. As you said, the prereqs are pretty much the same everywhere.
From my experience, there were more scholarships available by taking that route, but I don't know how that varies from state to state. God, I wish education was more affordable...

I also did community college to save money before transferring to UW. To me, there wasn't a large difference between the prereqs I took at CC and the first few prereqs I did before getting into my major classes. I think for the people who are just trying to get a degree and move on to the professional field there's hardly any difference. But I was driven and for me the university made a huge difference because of the resources available for me. For almost my entire time at UW I was able to work in journalism on a professional level, and even though I later decided against a career in that field those experiences were invaluable.

I got my A.A at an excellent community college, and if it wasn't for my creative writing professor at that college, I would not be a writer today. She is the one who signed me up for creative writing courses, encouraged me to submit my work to journals, and together we started a monthly spoken word event at local bookstores and coffee shops for the public. I've been writing since I learned how to write and read, but I never thought I could actually study or pursue creative writing. My parents never read my work and refused to because they didn't want to encourage me in a "fantasy" according to my father. My parents always wanted me to become an engineer or doctor, and it wasn't till the creative writing professor showed interest in my writing that I started to believe that just maybe I could pursue what is the only thing that has ever made me happy. 
It saddens me that people talk so badly of community college. For many people, it's all they can afford. 

@teasel @tippybug
I couldn’t remember the name of the person that wrote Human Acts...until now...thaaaaaaaaaaaanks haha. What a nightmare.

Agreed also - I went back to finish my undergrad in my mid-40s, on campus, and all through the first week, other students were looking at me like "Who brought their Mom?" Pretty soon, however, I was just another student in the class and I had a blast being back in the classroom. One afternoon my theater classmates found out I'd never been to a Starbucks, so they dragged me there and treated me to my first-ever salted caramel something-or-other, then cheered and yelled when I took the first sip. I still laugh about that. Going back to school was the best thing I ever did for myself, on a lot of levels.
And Paul, glad you stayed! My quantitative GRE score is so much worse than your writing one! ?

I'll check out The Vegetarian for sure! I I believe I've seen the title of that book around a few times, but hadn't yet given it a read. I'm not really reading any book right now (COVID depression has been pretty rough for me lol), so I appreciate the recommendation.
As for David Mitchell, I adore his book Number9Dream which I know was inspired by a lot of Murakami's books, and Ozeki's A Tale for the Time Being is phenomenal. Let me know if you end up picking up either of those books, and if you have any other recommendations for me.
If nothing else, I'm hoping my background in STEM makes it clear enough in my application that I can motivate myself to write on my own and not because I need to for school. I know that is one of the big hurdles for young students straight out of undergrad since MFA programs can't always be certain about a person's self-motivation to write, which does make sense. If I don't get in this round, though, I'll take it as a sign that I should let myself get more life experience before getting an MFA. Whatever happens, happens... but I sure hope me getting into a good MFA program is what happens ahahaha

Welcome! I think coming from a background that isn't strictly humanities probably gives you a really unique perspective. Tbh, I kind of wish that I had gone in the direction of STEM for my undergrad for practicality's sake. 

Absolutely love Murakami and Tartt! I read The Secret History this summer, but have yet to read her other works.  I read 1Q84 a few years ago, but since then have mostly only read his short stories. If you liked those writers, you might enjoy The Vegetarian by Han Kang. These days I'm mostly reading poetry tbh, but I'm hoping to pick up a new novel soon. Will check o ut Ozeki and Mitchell since it sounds like we have similar taste! 

Welcome! I think coming from a background that isn't strictly humanities probably gives you a really unique perspective. Tbh, I kind of wish that I had gone in the direction of STEM for my undergrad for practicality's sake. 

Absolutely love Murakami and Tartt! I read The Secret History this summer, but have yet to read her other works.  I read 1Q84 a few years ago, but since then have mostly only read his short stories. If you liked those writers, you might enjoy The Vegetarian by Han Kang. These days I'm mostly reading poetry tbh, but I'm hoping to pick up a new novel soon. Will check o ut Ozeki and Mitchell since it sounds like we have similar taste! 

I agree--it's unfortunate that there's a certain stigma around community college. Especially considering that after you transfer to a four year institution, it really doesn't make much of a difference (and you save soooo much $$). The teachers I had in my cc classes were wonderful and passionate about their students. AND, my classroom discussions were 1000% more interesting than the group of 18 year old upper/middle class students at my 4 year.

Not to mention that MFA programs apparently couldn't care less about where you went to undergrad as long as they see something worthwhile in your writing!  

I hear what you're saying, and there's a lot to unpack on this thread. I do wonder who these "blind readers" would be--the faculty of IWW are in the best place to make these calls, seeing as they are a part of the culture and will be the ones personally investing time & attention to those admitted.  Perhaps the best way to avoid biases is to further diversify the faculty/adcoms in every sense of the word?  A lot of schools are trying to diversify the student body, but on the systemic level I wonder if it has to start with faculty first and foremost. Obviously I am not qualified to even touch this problem, but it's something that seems pretty relevant with regards to the literary community as a whole rn.  And in the end, it's going to be subjective no matter what, right? I don't know if there's any way getting around that. It all comes down to the writing sample and the whims and/or tastes of the adcoms. 
Edit to add that 60/1000 applications still seems kinda generous? I mean, how many workshops have ya'll been in where *everyone's* story/poem is utterly captivating. I know I sound harsh, I just mean that not everyone who applies to a place like IWW is going to turn in something polished. Even great writers often have to apply 2 or 3 rounds. And this year, there's gotta be a number of people who applied on a whim after striking out in the job market and watching that one episode of Girls...  maybe it's easier culling the initial herd than we'd like to believe. I say this as someone who is 100% terrified btw. 

Chiming in here--for better or worse, successfully completing a BA degree is one of the quickest ways the committee can tentatively measure one's potential success in graduate school.  As someone who went back to undergrad later, I've seen firsthand how difficult it is to get by without a BA in the US if you want to be competitive in the workforce, specifically academia and humanities-related endeavors. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's already a pretty monumental task sorting through the 1000+ applications they receive already.  They gotta thin it out somehow. 
That being said, I had to drop out of my undergrad at 19 because I couldn't afford it! I really empathize with those who want a post-secondary education but don't want to be in crippling debt for the rest of their lives.  I ended up going to community college to finish my AA and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Worked 40+ hrs a week while doing it, too. My grades then qualified me for a scholarship that allowed me to attend a great 4 year university after that.... and after having to get through all that BS, I feel like that should mean something?  So, I really hear what you're saying @starbuck420 and I wish I had some better solution to offer, but the due process exists for a reason.  I guess that in a perfect world, studio programs wouldn't require a BA. Most of the programs I applied to are pretty academic, and I wonder if someone who hasn't completed any post-secondary education  can compete in class alongside Eng. Lit PhD candidates. Heck, I don't even know if I'm ready for that.  
 
Anyway, everyone should have access to education. Everyone should have access to healthcare. I'm not arguing the obvious, just pointing out that there are inevitable hurdles and steps to the process for a reason. I wish there were more opportunities for writers. The MFA isn't the only route a writer can take, but it sure feels like it sometimes. 

Welcome! I think coming from a background that isn't strictly humanities probably gives you a really unique perspective. Tbh, I kind of wish that I had gone in the direction of STEM for my undergrad for practicality's sake. 

Absolutely love Murakami and Tartt! I read The Secret History this summer, but have yet to read her other works.  I read 1Q84 a few years ago, but since then have mostly only read his short stories. If you liked those writers, you might enjoy The Vegetarian by Han Kang. These days I'm mostly reading poetry tbh, but I'm hoping to pick up a new novel soon. Will check o ut Ozeki and Mitchell since it sounds like we have similar taste! 

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH is exactly what I'm feeling too

I agree--it's unfortunate that there's a certain stigma around community college. Especially considering that after you transfer to a four year institution, it really doesn't make much of a difference (and you save soooo much $$). The teachers I had in my cc classes were wonderful and passionate about their students. AND, my classroom discussions were 1000% more interesting than the group of 18 year old upper/middle class students at my 4 year.

Not to mention that MFA programs apparently couldn't care less about where you went to undergrad as long as they see something worthwhile in your writing!  

Chiming in here--for better or worse, successfully completing a BA degree is one of the quickest ways the committee can tentatively measure one's potential success in graduate school.  As someone who went back to undergrad later, I've seen firsthand how difficult it is to get by without a BA in the US if you want to be competitive in the workforce, specifically academia and humanities-related endeavors. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's already a pretty monumental task sorting through the 1000+ applications they receive already.  They gotta thin it out somehow. 
That being said, I had to drop out of my undergrad at 19 because I couldn't afford it! I really empathize with those who want a post-secondary education but don't want to be in crippling debt for the rest of their lives.  I ended up going to community college to finish my AA and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Worked 40+ hrs a week while doing it, too. My grades then qualified me for a scholarship that allowed me to attend a great 4 year university after that.... and after having to get through all that BS, I feel like that should mean something?  So, I really hear what you're saying @starbuck420 and I wish I had some better solution to offer, but the due process exists for a reason.  I guess that in a perfect world, studio programs wouldn't require a BA. Most of the programs I applied to are pretty academic, and I wonder if someone who hasn't completed any post-secondary education  can compete in class alongside Eng. Lit PhD candidates. Heck, I don't even know if I'm ready for that.  
 
Anyway, everyone should have access to education. Everyone should have access to healthcare. I'm not arguing the obvious, just pointing out that there are inevitable hurdles and steps to the process for a reason. I wish there were more opportunities for writers. The MFA isn't the only route a writer can take, but it sure feels like it sometimes. 

I agree! I think this process is always subjective, in that art is subjectively assessed.
Fwiw, I've heard at Helen Zell that the first pass is done by current students, and an Iowa alum told me they read samples for admissions once (I'm not clear on if they were a current student or an alum by the time they did that, though).

I hear what you're saying, and there's a lot to unpack on this thread. I do wonder who these "blind readers" would be--the faculty of IWW are in the best place to make these calls, seeing as they are a part of the culture and will be the ones personally investing time & attention to those admitted.  Perhaps the best way to avoid biases is to further diversify the faculty/adcoms in every sense of the word?  A lot of schools are trying to diversify the student body, but on the systemic level I wonder if it has to start with faculty first and foremost. Obviously I am not qualified to even touch this problem, but it's something that seems pretty relevant with regards to the literary community as a whole rn.  And in the end, it's going to be subjective no matter what, right? I don't know if there's any way getting around that. It all comes down to the writing sample and the whims and/or tastes of the adcoms. 
Edit to add that 60/1000 applications still seems kinda generous? I mean, how many workshops have ya'll been in where *everyone's* story/poem is utterly captivating. I know I sound harsh, I just mean that not everyone who applies to a place like IWW is going to turn in something polished. Even great writers often have to apply 2 or 3 rounds. And this year, there's gotta be a number of people who applied on a whim after striking out in the job market and watching that one episode of Girls...  maybe it's easier culling the initial herd than we'd like to believe. I say this as someone who is 100% terrified btw. 

If I am understanding @Starbuck420 right, I believe they are saying that using a single gatekeeper (even one who is a woman of color) is troubling.

Everyone has biases, and not taking methodologically sound steps (such as blind readings w/ a panel of opinions) leads those biases to leak in more easily. Even journals use a variety of slush readers, though I imagine that's more so what those first two readers fulfill.
Saying the system for filtration can improve doesn't mean that it becomes any less elite or competitive.

I hear what you're saying, and there's a lot to unpack on this thread. I do wonder who these "blind readers" would be--the faculty of IWW are in the best place to make these calls, seeing as they are a part of the culture and will be the ones personally investing time & attention to those admitted.  Perhaps the best way to avoid biases is to further diversify the faculty/adcoms in every sense of the word?  A lot of schools are trying to diversify the student body, but on the systemic level I wonder if it has to start with faculty first and foremost. Obviously I am not qualified to even touch this problem, but it's something that seems pretty relevant with regards to the literary community as a whole rn.  And in the end, it's going to be subjective no matter what, right? I don't know if there's any way getting around that. It all comes down to the writing sample and the whims and/or tastes of the adcoms. 
Edit to add that 60/1000 applications still seems kinda generous? I mean, how many workshops have ya'll been in where *everyone's* story/poem is utterly captivating. I know I sound harsh, I just mean that not everyone who applies to a place like IWW is going to turn in something polished. Even great writers often have to apply 2 or 3 rounds. And this year, there's gotta be a number of people who applied on a whim after striking out in the job market and watching that one episode of Girls...  maybe it's easier culling the initial herd than we'd like to believe. I say this as someone who is 100% terrified btw. 

No one should have to take out 50k in federal and private loans to attend university. It's appalling. Older generations often cite inflation but the truth is that back in the 70's, at least at the university I attended, you could easily pay for your tuition by working a summer job.  Now, you're lucky if you're able to pay the interest and additional fees (university health insurance, processing bs, etc.).  
I don't know much about university systems outside of the US, but I do agree that it's unfortunate.  It seems like there are a lot of international applicants on Draft, though, so maybe this is changing? Would love to hear about this from the perspective of an international applicant, if they're will to share. 

Chiming in here--for better or worse, successfully completing a BA degree is one of the quickest ways the committee can tentatively measure one's potential success in graduate school.  As someone who went back to undergrad later, I've seen firsthand how difficult it is to get by without a BA in the US if you want to be competitive in the workforce, specifically academia and humanities-related endeavors. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's already a pretty monumental task sorting through the 1000+ applications they receive already.  They gotta thin it out somehow. 
That being said, I had to drop out of my undergrad at 19 because I couldn't afford it! I really empathize with those who want a post-secondary education but don't want to be in crippling debt for the rest of their lives.  I ended up going to community college to finish my AA and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Worked 40+ hrs a week while doing it, too. My grades then qualified me for a scholarship that allowed me to attend a great 4 year university after that.... and after having to get through all that BS, I feel like that should mean something?  So, I really hear what you're saying @starbuck420 and I wish I had some better solution to offer, but the due process exists for a reason.  I guess that in a perfect world, studio programs wouldn't require a BA. Most of the programs I applied to are pretty academic, and I wonder if someone who hasn't completed any post-secondary education  can compete in class alongside Eng. Lit PhD candidates. Heck, I don't even know if I'm ready for that.  
 
Anyway, everyone should have access to education. Everyone should have access to healthcare. I'm not arguing the obvious, just pointing out that there are inevitable hurdles and steps to the process for a reason. I wish there were more opportunities for writers. The MFA isn't the only route a writer can take, but it sure feels like it sometimes. 

No one should have to take out 50k in federal and private loans to attend university. It's appalling. Older generations often cite inflation but the truth is that back in the 70's, at least at the university I attended, you could easily pay for your tuition by working a summer job.  Now, you're lucky if you're able to pay the interest and additional fees (university health insurance, processing bs, etc.).  
I don't know much about university systems outside of the US, but I do agree that it's unfortunate.  It seems like there are a lot of international applicants on Draft, though, so maybe this is changing? Would love to hear about this from the perspective of an international applicant, if they're will to share. 

Yeah, I think this is one of those things where we should be addressing the root. The answer, in my opinion, shouldn't be to remove the bachelor's requirement (to me it doesn't make sense to get a master's when you don't have a bachelor's), but to increase opportunities for people to earn their bachelor's in the first place. Although I do think it's weird that degrees from other countries aren't accepted; that should probably be amended. I don't know too much about India's academic institutions, but my impression was that they are strong.