LadyL

Wow. I've been told that interviews are often just a screening test to keep the crazies out and I can see why that's necessary! So far I've seen an unfortunate trend where interviewees seem very impressed with themselves, and unimpressed with everyone/everything else. One person at my last interview was very critical of a presentation by one of the grad students that we attended as part of the recruitment weekend. He said something to the effect of "I go to a lot of really high level lectures so I am pretty discerning" or some crap like that. Both times I've seen this attitude it's been from people who come from well recognized, "prestigious" schools and I really get the sense that they think their fancy degree overrides them being jerks. Maybe it does, I don't know, but I just wonder why even attend the interview if you are that "over" the program before you even really see it. It's insulting to those of us who like it and would be excited to attend.

I have a degree in Psych/English with only three semesters of bio. I have gotten interviews at all the neuroscience programs I applied to, and several psych programs that have a behavioral or cognitive neuroscience focus. My first admission was to a very course heavy neuroscience program where I will be one of very few people doing human imaging research. I think what qualifies me for these programs is my experience working in a structural imaging lab for a year, and a functional imaging lab for 2.5 years. I was lucky enough to train alongside the post docs in our lab and am proficient in fMRI data analysis, with authorship on a ton of posters (2 first author) and a 3rd author pub in press. My impression is that psychology programs are more competitive than neuroscience and that the funding is better in neuroscience. I may be a more unique or novel applicant to neuroscience programs (which are still somewhat male dominated, versus psychology which is becoming extremely female dominated). It seems like every researcher is looking to expand into imaging and I've been told that the fact that I already have experience in task design and data analysis is really appealing. In short, I was lucky to fall into a unique situation where I've been allowed to work "above my level" and I think that's what has compensated for my lack of coursework in the area. I highly recommend gaining practical experience in a field, not only so that you can confirm your interest in it before applying, but also because it demonstrates to programs that you can do the work.

I am a third time applicant and thankfully was accepted to a program a few weeks ago, and have 6 more programs that I'm interviewing with. I went into this round very numb and without expectations, having been disappointed so much in the past. Even as I got interview invites, I still thought that I'd be the person who gets rejected across the board again. It wasn't until several days after my acceptance that it sunk in. And until I have accepted the offer I am still slightly paranoid that they will revoke it or something. If I hadn't gotten in, I would have tried to push out some first authorship papers and given it one last go. At that point I would have been overqualified for grad school because I'd be working on the exact same level as post docs in the lab, so if I didn't get in I guess I would have accepted that it wasn't meant to be. But yeah, I think I would have done round 4, but probably not 5.

I wanted to share my (increasingly bizarre) experience with the programs I'm applying to. Basically I am a cognitive neuroscientist, if I had to choose a label. Undergrad in English and Psych with a smattering of bio, 2.5 years work experience in an imaging lab. I applied to mostly Psychology programs, but at a few schools I also applied to the neuroscience department because there was faculty overlap between them and Psych. My results so far: I was invited to interview at all 3 of the neuro programs I applied to, but only 4/11 psych programs, despite much stronger coursework in Psych than Bio (I have zero chemistry or cell bio courses, just bio 101 and anat and physiology). I was accepted to a neuroscience program that is usually very heavy on the cell bio and chemistry but took me because they also do imaging; it is a very academically rigorous program where I would take my classes at a Top 10 med school. I had my application at one school rerouted from Cognitive Neuroscience to Biology because the school is "trying to admit as many students as possible" and the coursework is the same in both departments. During an interview at another school, I was given the option of rerouting my application from Behavioral Neuroscience to Social and Health Psychology because they felt that BN was more animal research and cell bio focused and the coursework would be a better fit in Social. I am totally kicking myself for not applying to more Neuroscience programs. I know it's probably too late for this round, but if anyone is reading this next year - don't be afraid to apply slightly outside your field if the work is a good fit, even if you feel like your coursework isn't! You never know what will happen.

I asked a school that accepted me for an extension to decide. They had no problem with it. I think most schools would like you decide on the spot that they're your favorite but understand that the reality is, most of us are considering multiple options.

If you are really 99% sure then yes, politely decline. But I hesitate to suggest anyone turn down an offer from a school they have not visited (I assume you haven't done so prior). I am at the point where I am going to have to take unpaid vacation time to attend all my interviews, but I am going to do that because I don't want to weed out potentially strong options.

Heh, I gave that answer in the interview for the school that accepted me, so I guess I could have done worse .

So far 2/3 of the interviews I've attended have involved someone asking where else I've applied and/or interviewed. I am not sure what to respond. The first time I answered vaguely that I applied "all over the northeast" which is true. In the last interview I was asked how far I was in the interview process, and I said about 1/3 through which was truthful time wise. Towards the end of the day another professor asked specifically if I'd interviewed elsewhere and I told him which schools I'd been to. I am really not sure if it looks shady to be vague in response to these questions, or if it seems overly braggy to list off other schools that have invited me for interviews. Or, if the schools I'm interviewing at are lower/higher ranked than that school, whether than might influence how attractive a candidate I am. How are all of you handling these questions?

The prejudice against "attractiveness" or attention to appearance makes me sad. I normally wear my hair curled and really like it that way, but have been blow drying it straight for interviews so it looks less "fussy" and high maintenance. The funny thing is that blow drying it straight takes way longer than curling it! But I figure better safe than sorry, go with a plainer and more "modern" look. I also wear minimal, natural makeup and soft, neutral colors. Normally I am the type to wear, say, blue leopard print tights with red mary janes so I definitely am suppressing my natural flair for fashion. I worry a little about what they will think when I get there and dress less subdued (no animal prints in the lab, of course, but i do like to play with color).

The grad student is on the planning committee for the visit, and I mentioned in my reply to them that I did not mean to give the impression that I thought my partner could/should attend all the events. I will see what their reaction is and then consider following up again with the department if it seems like this is the source of the confusion. The departmental email more specifically referenced the lodging situation and not wanting prospects to be rooming with significant others and I already replied to that as cordially as possible, and would rather not keep poking at the issue if at all possible.

He would be leaving his job and relocating with me and I would like him to see the area. At the interview he attended with me there was another interviewee whose wife was in attendance. I guess how normal this is varies a lot?

It's a Ph.D. program. It was never my intention to have my partner attend all of the weekend's events, though perhaps this was not made entirely clear.

I am really not sure what to make of one university's response to my inquiry about bringing my partner to an interview weekend I was invited to. I have already dealt with this type of situation at another university. I followed advice from here and asked if it were possible to book lodging for both myself and my partner and offered to pay for any additional cost. The school was more than accommodating, booking us a hotel room, providing him with the same meals as me, and waiving conference fees for the weekend so he could attend talks with me. Ultimately we both hit it off with the students and staff and I was recently admitted into the program. I took the same approach with "University B" - offering to pay for extra cost, and stating that if he could not come it would only affect my method of transport. I got an email back from them today saying that Dean Something or Other "thought it was a bad idea" and "not appropriate for this sort of event." I thought that was a weird reason to give but whatever. Then I get an email from a grad student in the program saying that "off the record" that some people have objections to my request and that this student was offended by their objections (no specifics were given). They explained more of the rational for why my partner couldn't/shouldn't come - the department not wanting to spend extra money, the logistics of me needing to interview and attend informational sessions alone. This student also mentioned that they felt that the program might be "sticking their nose where it didn't belong" with their objections. I wrote back saying that it's fine that he is not to attend, that I was fully prepared to make alternate plans, and that I hoped I hadn't ruffled any feathers. But I am really wondering A. what their actual objections are (Is it because we are unmarried? Do they think I'm a freeloader looking for an all expense paid vacation?), B. if negative things are being said about me as the result of my request, C. what sort of hornets nest I may be stumbling into with this department if there is this much drama over a simple yes or no question. Anyone have any insight? It has been such a night and day experience with these two schools and I'm pretty confused.

I am not talking about Yale but where I am there is internal funding to squabble over . Resources are really a more precious commodity though - access to large longitudinal databases, equipment, etc. causes a lot of conflict at least from what I've seen.

I disagree strongly with the above poster. I actually interviewed today at a university in my home state and mentioned being closer to my large extended family as a reason I am interested in the program. I think it demonstrates that I'd have a strong support network as a student. Also, the area the school is in gets an unfairly bad rap, and my interviewers actually said that they were glad that they didn't have to defend the area to me since I was already familiar with it. Finally, the fact that it's a metropolitan area means there are a lot more resources available than if I was in somewhere more remote so it's not totally unrelated to the program to care about the area. I think that once you're at the interview stage they want to see you as a student first, but as a person too with individual likes and dislikes. Part of fit with a program is liking the geography. One program that admitted me said that part of the interview is seeing whether applicants end up hating the somewhat harsh climate, because if they can't stand it after a few days they'll never make it through several months of it.

I hope I have a good chance of at least getting an HM. I am not in a program currently and think that is a big detriment of my application, and that I'd do better next year once I'm attending. Reasons I will do well - my mentor helped a lot with my proposal and suggested I propose a method that is new and better than what is currently being done in that area. I have strong letters, and my broader impacts are reasonable. Reasons I won't get it - average GREs, high GPA from a school that's not well known/respected, not in a grad program yet.

I don't really get why you are looking for such specific, negative information. The part about data being destroyed (as opposed to lost, which is FAR more often the case) makes you seem a bit paranoid. That said, having worked at an Ivy affiliated lab for a few years, I will tell you this: there is egotism and stupidity everywhere you go. At first it's more shocking to see it in the Ivies because of the reputation, but then you realize that people are people. I think a lot of amazing professors choose smaller schools because they care more about work environment than name branding. And a lot of brilliant but dysfunctional people end up at Ivies and then go even more nuts when they're tenured. Things I have personally experienced include researchers who are protective of their data to the point of paranoia- demanding excessive reimbursement to particpate on a grant, and actually dropping out of large grants because of petty ego driven feuds. Also, researchers who want to get into the latest sexy new method but have no idea what they are doing and outsource the actual work but then take first authorship on papers. This is pretty common - appropriating the work of collaborators and/or grad students and post docs and submitting grants, papers, etc. with your name on it. I think it is most common with professors who also have administrative responsibilities that don't allow them to actually be hands on about research. There is also more high level political crap in the Ivies regarding fights about money and resources, because these schools actually have a lot of both and everyone wants a piece.

...please, please know that it is not the end of the world even if that does happen. I am the who everyone thought would get in the first time and didn't after being wait listed at two programs. I got a job in my field and reapplied 2 years later, and same deal - wait list but no acceptance. It was crushing. I was mortified that I'd had to ask my mentors for letters twice and still hadn't gotten in. My family was supportive but obviously shared my disappointment. It sucked, I wanted to crawl in a hole and die for a few weeks after, but I picked myself up eventually and moved on. I worked on publishing data. I was able to expand my skill set at my job, and pick up another mentor in the process. I applied again, this time to three times as many programs, of course spending three times as much money. I had to get special permission from one program to apply for a third time which made me feel like a big loser. I braced myself for not getting in anywhere and possibly changing careers. Yesterday one of my programs emailed me. As I read the subject line my stomach dropped: my first rejection, here we go again. And I was wrong. It was an acceptance with full funding from a school I'd visited and loved. I got to do the jumping around screaming happy dance and got to hear how excited my parents were when I called to let them know. And I've gotten to re live the excitement every time I tell another co worker, friend, or family member *especially* the ones who know my history and how hard I've worked. And the amount of satisfaction and relief I've felt in the past 36 hours outweighs the three YEARS where I was either applying or in between application periods, wondering if I was ever going to make it in my field. Wondering why I had such crap luck, applying last year as the economy fell apart, constantly wait listed but never chosen. So whatever happens for you this year...if it's your first, second, third, fourth round or greater, just remember that it does not make you a loser, it is not a reason to give up, and if you keep at it it WILL happen for you.

I think a prank contest would be excellent. Each grad student must organize an elaborate prank, and the most excellent few gain admissions. I would win . I single handedly organized our senior prank in high school (we turned the first floor of the school into a ball pit of balloons) and also managed to turn the senior play into a satire of the school as well. In college I only had time for lesser pranks but the point is...I would win. Therefore that's how they should pick .

I have a background in psychology but applied to several neuroscience programs. I got interviews at all 3 programs I applied to, and 2 interviews from Psychology programs so far (out of 11 I applied to). I don't have a ton of bio coursework but have worked in neuroimaging for 2+ years. Applying to neuroscience programs was a last minute idea and now I'm totally wishing I applied to more!

Just to show the other side of the coin - 2 of my 3 letters last year were from professors at one of my schools. They are under the psychiatry department, not psychology, but they do the same type of research as the psych program. One of my letter writers is also poker buddies with the head of the department I applied to. I did not even get an interview for the program. I have heard rumors that this school does not like to accept their undergrads into their grad programs, so I wonder if the same bias was at play, that they would prefer to take people who are not "in the system" already to promote diversity or something. My boss/letter writer actually seemed disappointed and maybe even a little insulted that his recommendation didn't get me considered (he called the adcomm "those bastards" and shook his head in disbelief). I suspect my less than amazing GREs might have got me cut in the first round, but either way, the letters did not override that obviously.

I was lucky enough to keep my job in research due to a grant carryover. So I've continued working in my field and have added a ton of published work to my CV as a result (at least compared to the measly ONE poster I had last round!). I was given some opportunities to expand my skill set at work and was recently promoted (with a raise kicking in soon, yay!) so professionally I've done pretty well. I also applied for a national science foundation fellowship, which was a good experience in terms of learning about grant writing. It looks good on my applications, and if somehow I was to actually win it, a lot of schools will overturn a rejection if you have your own funding. I found out about the fellowship too late to apply last time but am glad I did so this time. It also got a lot of the writing for my applications out of the way. As far as stamina to keep going, I spent a few weeks kind of wallowing in misery and disbelief - I seriously almost had a heart attack when I found out the wait list school fell through, locked myself in an office and just cried on the phone to my parents and boyfriend for like two hours. It really did suck but in the scheme of bad things that have happened to me it's not even in the top 5, maybe somewhere in the top 10 but only because I'm lucky and haven't had too much bad stuff happen in my life . I am grateful to have spent another year living where I do, I really like the area and will be sad if I have to leave. And honestly having a 9-5 job with benefits isn't all that bad - most of my time is mine to do what I want with, which is different from the 12 hour days I often pulled while in undergrad. So I have basically tried to enjoy living a normal life for a while and build up some sort of endurance reserve for grad school .

Having been there twice already, it's not the shame of shames, I promise. Everyone was disappointed for me, but not in me, if that makes sense. My boss (and letter writer)'s reaction when I got all rejections: "Those bastards!" He actually seemed more upset that his recommendation hadn't carried more weight. He said "I thought I wrote you a strong letter" and looked kind of sad. So, I felt bad that it was disappointing for everyone, but it was also reassuring to know that they all really did care and that I had their support. And they have put up with this third round of letters, for which there were 16 applications total, so you'd be surprised at how patient people can be.

I am so sorry you were jerked around like that, that's terrible! At least all I dealt with was avoidance and an apology about funding, rather than being flat out told "it was between you and them, and we picked them." Good for you for trying again, I feel like if we got that close last time, we have to get it this time, right? Oh wait, if I believed that I wouldn't have started this thread . You are right about distraction. I laid down plans months ago to go full force with my hobbies this month and next - I'm doing styling gigs for a convention and a fashion show, running several club events, etc. I also started training for a 5K. And I'm working on a conference submission at work along with a million other things. Is it enough to get my mind fully off of things? Of course not!

LOL too funny, thanks for the laughs with those images . The thing about encouragement is that I was told by tons of people last year that I had unique experience, that I'd get in no problem, etc. etc. etc. These weren't random relatives or strangers on the bus either, these were people who serve on admissions committees, were professors at schools I applied to, etc. And they were all wrong. Granted the economic crisis was a huge factor too but still. Perhaps it's the ultimate in narcissism that I think that my awesomeness should have overriden the economy crashing. But people did get into schools last year, and I wasn't one of them, not sure how else to take that. I know that this year is different and I'm a stronger applicant but that doesn't guarantee anything about the outcomes. So it's hard to take any encouragement or support seriously. I feel like I have to be cynical because if I get hopeful and get let down again I will have to seriously reconsider an academic career; I don't know if I can go through round 4 of applications! I don't have anything else that I really want to do with my life. There are things I *could* do but they're not ideal and I'd probably feel as stuck as I do now.