Two Espressos

This is somewhat incongruous with the last few postings, but I want to say that the whole prize thing for the first rejection is a fantastic idea. If I apply to graduate programs next fall, I'm definitely going to spearhead (or at least contribute to) another thread like this. Marxist_feminist: sorry to hear about your rejection! Here's to hoping you receive good news soon! With a username like yours, they shouldn't be able to resist your application. There's basically a 99% chance that you're a really cool person.

Good points, and great word usage ("exsanguinating")! I had never seen it before, but knowing "sanguine," I figured out what the meaning was. I'm totally using it now.

(This message, as well as the prior one, was hurriedly typed up at work, while avoiding the panoptic gaze of my supervisors! So there may be more grammatical/orthographical errors than I would like.) Some more things I wanted to add to the prior post: I personally think some of the work that comp/rhetoric people do is really goddamn boring, like writing program adminstration. That isn't for me at all. But I wouldn't be so ostentatious as to suggest that that kind of work isn't worthwhile. Think about it: every universtiy has a writing program, even if it's just for first-year composition. Someone has to have the specialized knowledge to run it. The job market in literature scares me. I really don't care about getting a tenure-track position at an R1 university, but I would like to have a decent-paying (aka, not adjuncting) job. So that's why comp/rhetoric has a perpetual attraction for me. My biggest worry is that a comp/rhetoric program won't be able to house/accomodate my interests. So I keep vacillating back and forth between literature and comp/rhetoric. If I decide to apply to MA/PhD programs my senior year, I'll probably apply to a mix of comp/rhetoric and literature programs. But yeah, that was just a series of thoughts that I wanted to add to the prior post but didn't have time. EDIT: I've been using "certainly" far too much.

Wow, that was an excellent series of retorts. You handled that with much more force and elegance than I did! I second the notion of classism and racism directed towards community college students. And I definitely agree about what fuels most anti-comp/rhetoric people in literature. I can feel literature slowly dying, as sad as that is. I certainly don't think that literature is going to die out completely, but it's certainly going to go through a restructuring phase and become much more marginalized than it already is. In short, more pluralist thinking is needed between comp/rhetoric and literature folks.

Well, you didn't handle that with much nuance! I have heard similar things from the literature end about comp/rhetoric being for, as you put it, "rat brains." Essentially, I've heard people scoff at comp/rhetoric as being a lowly, simplistic field for those who "couldn't do anything else." (Note: I do not endorse those claims whatsoever.) I know little, but it seems to me that comp/rhetoric is concerned with much more pragmatic issues than literary studies. As someone mentioned above, administrators--often in total ignorance, but still--probably view comp/rhetoric work as much more "useful" than literature. I don't agree with that at all, but that's probably one of the reasons comp/rhetoric PhD's have way better placement rates. As for comp/rhetoric PhD's teaching "mentally challenged kids at a crappy school": I think that's a rather rude way to characterize an entire field. The PhD I know has a tenure-track position at a four-year university, which isn't crappy at all. And while she's never told me how much she makes (it's really not my business), I remember talking with someone else about it, and this person said that the aforementioned PhD makes around ~$60,000 a year. Not too shabby, I'd say.

I second all the above. I don't know much about comp/rhetoric, but I have a friend of a friend who received a PhD from ComeBackZinc's program (Purdue) a few years ago who told me basically the same things. From my (limited) understanding, Purdue is the comp/rhetoric program. The Purdue grad I know received multiple tenure-track offers upon graduating. She now has a tenure-track position at a solid university. The job market is significantly better, but as ComeBackZinc mentions, the odds are never certain, so don't go into the comp/rhetoric field just for the better job prospects. Unless, maybe, you get admitted to Purdue. ALSO: while the perceived antagonism between comp/rhetoric and literature may be overblown, it certainly still exists. I've witnessed it from the literature end.

Yeah, I've been given this advice before. I'm not sure if I should or not. A few professors at my school have encouraged me to apply to graduate school, and I'm 100% sure I want to pursue a PhD at some point in my life, though I'm uncertain as to whether I should take off a year or not. Taking off a year would pose many financial problems, as loan payments begin 6 months (or is it 9?) after graduation. Plus I don't know where I'd get a job. I'm not saying I'm interested in a PhD because I simply "don't know what else to do," or anything like that. I know that's infantile. I'm strictly concerned with the pragmatic concerns of the "off-year." I'd love to do volunteer work abroad, but nearly every program (barring the Peace Corps) requires the volunteer to pay, so those options aren't open to me. I'm probably going to apply to American University's MA program in Ethics, Peace, and Global Affairs, irrespective of whether I apply to PhD programs or not next year, as human rights work is another major interest of mine. So many factors to consider... Oh, I know. I was mostly concerned with how Penn deals with interdisciplinarity, especially that which goes beyond the interdisciplinarity of the average English program. That's the main reason I asked you. I haven't ever even written about the vague topics I've described, but I believe that, after rigorous contemplation, it could turn into something. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

Ah okay, thanks!

Also, this may be an incredibly naive question, but what is this CEA conference that has been brought up a few times? I'm not familiar with it.

I'm very interested in Penn, so I'm glad you're on these boards! I'm a junior, so I'm not applying until this upcoming fall. You mention that Penn looks for more "unique" research interests for contemporary stuff. I want to throw some ideas around, some things I've been thinking about, and maybe you can give me any advice as to whether Penn would accommodate these kinds of things? I've been thinking a lot about the notion and history of doubt, especially doubt as an ontological/epistemological basis for ethical thought. I've been thinking about doubt in political literature as well as the implications of doubt for human rights work and for writing practice. So in a sense I'm interested most in theoretical investigations of doubt crossing the lines between critical theory/literature/human rights/composition and rhetoric. I'm not sure if the above is even a worthwhile area of research; it's just some of the things I've been mulling over. I've also been wondering, if the above is something worth pursuing, if the best place to pursue that work would be an interdisciplinary program such as Stanford's Modern Thought and Literature or UC Santa Cruz's History of Conscious program. Any advice would be appreciated!

I'm not much of a drinker, but I do enjoy a nice gin and tonic. Yum. I hate whiskey and beer as well, especially the latter. I've never understood the beer craze.

I'm presenting a paper at the Sigma Tau Delta International Convention in New Orleans in late February/early March. I've never been to New Orleans, so I'm very excited to attend, even more so because my university is paying for it! I don't know exactly how large this convention is going to be, though. I'm kinda nervous.

I'm not applying to graduate school this application season (I'm a junior), but I am working on a longer paper via an independent study. It's certainly not thesis-length though, as the paper is probably going to be somewhere in the 25-35 page range. I'm working almost exclusively with theory, especially issues of trans/posthumanism, embodiment, and ethics. All of the projects outlined above sound fascinating. Best of luck to all of you!

Others have already answered your question, but I will confirm it: there are no "quality" safety schools. The only safety schools that exist are the ones you probably don't want to be attending, lol.

Blood Meridian is otherworldly (in a good way). I've never encountered anything else like it, and Judge Holden is probably the most unsettling character in all of literature. I'd easily put Blood Meridian in the top 5 greatest novels I've ever read. Even though there are many excellent works I've yet to read (Ulysses, etc), I'm nearly positive it will stay in that top 5. Forever. Just thinking about that book chills my blood.

There are so many books I'm ashamed for not having read! Moby Dick, Ulysses,The Canterbury Tales (I've read sections of it, but not in its entirety, even after having taken a Chaucer seminar...), The Decameron, Gravity's Rainbow, the list goes on forever. . .

Yes, "irregardless" is a terribly unnecessary word! And I've heard two professors use it. "Irrespective" is much better. Also, regarding over-thinking: I presented a paper (which, in retrospect, was pretty awful) at an undergraduate conference last fall, and after I had finished speaking, I returned to my seat. On the desk of the girl to my left, facing me, was a piece of paper that read something like "used big words to sound smart." Now, this girl had excitedly talked to me about my presentation before the session had started. I'm 100% sure she wanted me to read the note. It was just such an odd, passive-aggressive thing: she never spoke to me again. Honestly, I didn't just use "big words" to sound intelligent. That's just how I talk and write! I rarely use a thesaurus to find a "bigger" synonym for a word that I'm using. Usually when people do that, it's painfully obvious, lol. So there... that was a long, tangential story to essentially agree that one can easily breach sensible word choice and tasteful construction, at least in the opinion of odd, passive-aggressive audiences!

Yes, I've been trying to convince myself that the grad cafe populace is la crème de la crème of grad school applicants. I have no statistical evidence to confirm that, of course. But you all seem very motivated, and students on these boards have gotten admissions to top-tier and Ivy-league programs, so perhaps you all will do much better in the application season than you anticipate. Here's to a successful application season!

I can't bring myself to split infinitives or end sentences with prepositions, even if they aren't rules. It just sounds so wrong to me. Social conditioning, I suppose? I think the only writing habit that actually annoys me is a general one: overwritten prose. I think there's a world of difference between sophisticated, complex prose and overwritten prose. The former is fine (and can be great, sometimes); the latter is awful.

Ah, Leiter's Philosophical Gourmet Report, I presume? I come from Hickville State U Branch Campus. Frankly, I'm fucked. I come from a university likely even less prestigious than yours, so we're in the same bind. I'm pretty sure that the lack of a name-brand education is going to hinder you (and me) to a degree. It's by no means going to bar you from a PhD program, but you're going to have to work harder than the Ivy league kids. I don't know about your school, but most of my English professors don't publish regularly. I can only think of two, actually. I really like some of them, especially the professor I'm working under for my independent study, but their letters of recommendation simply aren't going to carry the weight that an established scholar's would. (I should add, though, that the independent study professor is one of the two who publishes regularly, so she may be an exception.) The aforementioned professor, who received her PhD from a reputable state school ~20 years ago, advised me to apply widely, even to the "big name" schools. But she did say that I'd have a hard time getting into the Ivies. Altogether, your writing sample and statement of purpose are vital. They're the only things that really are going to make much of a difference when you're competing against Ivy league graduates. (At least, that's what I'm telling myself...) Good luck!

This. I don't apply until next fall, but I've already begun charting basic info in Excel. It's a wonderous tool.

My thoughts on Franco: 1. He's a terribly overrated actor. Starring in stoner comedies (Pineapple Express, Your Highness) does not a good actor make. The only role I genuinely liked of his was Allen Ginsberg in Howl. He was excellent as the poet. 2. His writing is terrible. I only read parts of Palo Alto, but the writing I read was quite poor (things described as "shadow-colored," etc.). He's attended various reputable institutions for creative writing (which ostensibly should refine and improve one's skills), so I'm assuming he never really had the writing talent originally. 3. He's a douche, ostentatious for no apparent reason. He's certainly entitled to pursue multiple advanced degrees at the same time, but so doing makes him look like an ass, in my opinion. I liked the earlier post that discussed Shakira taking a history course at UCLA, using a different name so as to disguise her celebrity status and actually for the most part attending class. That's the way to do it; I think it's very honorable for her to subtly take a course that interests her.

This is a great thread idea, Timshel! Random grievance of my own: I still have no idea whether I should apply to comp/rhetoric or literature programs next fall. If any of you come across any of my older posts about my grad school plans, ignore them. They're uniformly bullshit, and I've completely changed my mind about things (again!). lol. Ugh.

I agree with other posters: teach over presenting at the conference, unless you can do both.

I'd say, simply in conjecture, that the humanities have a large portion of disillusioned grad students, if only because the job prospects are so bleak. (This is coming from someone eager to enter graduate school in the humanities.)