I/O The Derry-O

Hi Tomtchen7, I second eternallyephemeral's comment about looking at PhD programs that offer terminal master's is a good start. For example, some terminal master's programs have their master's students take pretty much the same classes as the PhD students - except the PhD students take classes for an additional year, but this additional year may amount to mostly non-IO Psychology courses (e.g., social psych, developmental). If this is the case, then you are getting similar preparation as the PhD students. I can't speak for any other I/O programs, but I graduated from SUNY Albany's master's program and we had the same classes as the PhD students (with the exception of a couple of advanced stats classes and some non-I/O courses). The other thing to keep in mind is the "caliber" of the grad school isn't a huge deal in the I/O field. Since it is such a small field, most employers truly only care if you went to a reputable program (i.e., not a completely online, for-profit school) or not. I have seen people land jobs at good companies in that come from well-known grad programs and I have also seen people land jobs at these same companies who come from small, lesser-known programs. Another important distinction you should make is whether you want to work in a role that is more on the "I" side or the "O" side of I/O. This will help you narrow down your choice. Although there is some overlap between the two areas, if you are into employee selection, training, performance appraisal, then finding a grad program that leans to the "I" side is important. If you are interested in organizational development/change, motivation, etc. you may want to find a program that leans to the "O" side Hope this helps and let me know if you have any more questions!

Hi Josephina - I can provide some general thoughts as well as insight into SUNY Albany. I am a current MA student in the I/O Psychology there. As a rule of thumb, the I/O field is a fairly small field. Although some graduate programs may be more well known or rigorous than others, I think that all I/O programs at an accredited institution are recognized by employers and others in the field. I think that this can be attributed to the fact that field is so small (and thus, making a distinction of what programs are better is less clear). As for SUNY Albany, our PhD students have seen success in the labor market as well. Our alumni have received jobs at Aon, Google, etc. Our current students have obtained internships at notable places including GE, JetBlue, SAP, and the NSA. Our program also offers students a unique opportunity to work closely with the predictive talent selection company, Chequed.com as one of our professors serves as the Chief Science Officer for the company. Students are able to gain applied experience to make them competitive while attending classes. Perhaps, some others can comment on the other graduate programs which I am sure have comparable benefits as well. Hope this helps!

I found that work experience was the most valuable in identifying that I wanted to pursue graduate study for I/O. This is something I have heard from fellow classmates as well. Specifically, in my case, there were certain aspects of jobs that I had that I really enjoyed. The aspects that I enjoyed most were closely related to selection (i.e., I helped with an internship program at one of my jobs, and at another, I helped people look for employment). Once I got to grad school and took a few classes, it became more apparent that selection was the particular area of I/O that I was most interested in. Finding opportunities to actually gain experience directly in I/O are few and far between unless you are already an I/O graduate student. However, if you can get related experience like you are in your HR internship, I would say that its a great start. I am not all that knowledgeable about the job market for 'O' side occupations, but it is something I would look into if I were you. From what I have learned, most people who are in terminal master's programs are interested in applied work and most applied work is on the 'I' side - just something to consider.

What type of applied work do you want to do exactly? Are your interests more with the 'I' side of I/O (i.e., selection, training, performance appraisal, etc.), or more on the 'O' side (i.e., organizational change, groups, leadership, etc.). I would say that your specific interests will be valuable in identifying what programs to apply to as some programs emphasize one side more than the other in their coursework and opportunities. I am currently an I/O master's student at the University at Albany. I can tell you that our program emphasizes the 'I' side a little more than the 'O' side. We take a few courses on the 'O' side, but it could be argued that the majority of our coursework is intended to prepare us as practitioners on the 'I' side. The distinction between the two sides is blurred sometimes, but I found that knowing I wanted to do more selection and training work made the program a good fit for my interests. Additionally, the opportunities available to us are also on the 'I' side. We have opportunities through our program to work with the New York State Dept. of Civil Service and also with Chequed.com (a predictive talent solutions company from the area). Is there a certain part of HR management that interests you? Is HR the route you definitely want to go?

dmacfour, Although I am not in the same position as you, I can certainly empathize. I worked for over a year with the New York State Dept. of Labor and my role was to assist job seekers with securing employment. The frustrations that you expressed are experienced by many job seekers - despite level of experience. The job search process has become impersonal. Applicants are spending hours submitting online applications and only receiving those generic automated e-mails you referred to in return. This is an unfortunate product of the economy. Many positions have an oversized candidate pool so in an effort to be more efficient in identifying who is qualified within that pool and who is not, employers have shortcuts. Employers are scanning resumes and applications for key industry terms and the minimum qualifications - sometimes spending only a few seconds per resume/application before deciding whether or not a candidate will proceed to the next phase of the selection process. My best piece of advice to you given the information that you provided, would be to have your resume reviewed by someone who knows resumes. You can get a free resume critique and job search assistance from one of your state's career centers or perhaps your alma mater's career center. If job seekers are not getting any interviews, it is usually due to 1 of 2 reasons. Either, the job seeker does not meet the minimum qualifications for the position or his/her resume does not highlight their qualifications well enough to allow the employer to see that he/she is qualified. If you receive opinions from multiple people about the resume and it is safe to say that this is not a limitation in the job search, then at least, you can look to other means to make yourself a more competitive candidate.

Hi Jim - I am also a graduate student chiming in. I am by no means seasoned, but I do have a little bit of professional experience working for New York State Dept. of Labor. Are you asking if your background is favorable for admissions to an I/O grad program? Or favorable for breaking into the field? If you're asking about admissions, I would say that your unique background definitely distinguishes you from other candidates who are applying. The fact that you are working in a training role shows that you have experience in a relevant area of I/O (even if not in a clear I/O role). People end up going into I/O for different reasons. If you can provide a strong personal statement that describes what has been this catalyst for you, I think admissions committees will look favorably upon it. I would imagine that most I/O graduate programs will also want you to have taken specific psychology courses to gain admission, so I would look into those requirements if I were you (not sure if you have already through your other studies). In terms of breaking into the field, Bren2014 "hit the nail on the head" when she said that making contacts and gaining experience through internships or practicum is the best route for this. I/O is a small world so I think that it is important to not only to "be nice" to others in the field, but you should also take a learner orientation and be open to doing anything that will get you experience - no matter how mundane it may seem or if it is unpaid. Good luck!

Yes, I have heard good things about the I/O program at Baruch. One of the Ph.D. students in our program did his undergrad there. What specific area of I/O are you interested in?

Hello Msmisan - I am a current M.A. student in UAlbany's I/O psychology program. As a general rule with any graduate program, GPA and GRE scores are important, but only to a certain extent. Applicants do not need to have near perfect GPAs or GREs to be competitive as it is the entire application that gets reviewed. Most admissions decisions are based on more than GPA and GRE scores. Letters of recommendation, research experience, and other factors are also considered. I would not be too concerned about your GPA as it is fairly strong. If it makes you feel any better, my roommate who is also in the program had an undergraduate GPA of about a 3.4 so I would think yours would be fine. Focus on studying for the GREs and the other parts of your application. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me!

Hi Mike - Your credentials look solid. I would not be overly concerned with a GRE score slightly on the low end as I feel that a fair amount of schools will allow other aspects of the application to compensate for this. However, this will also depend on the caliber of the schools you are applying to. I would imagine that highly competitive master's programs might be more rigid in their interpretation of the GRE score. Also, some professors have their grad students write the LOR and then they edit and sign it so that may be the case with one of your recommenders. I definitely would not advise you to send a LOR with the grad student being the recommender as it will not seem like a creditable source. In any event, you have many other great parts to your application so be confident! Best of luck!

Hi Root-3, I am a current student in SUNY Albany's M.A. I/O psychology program right now and would be happy to answer any questions you have. PM me and I can give you my email. For what term would you be applying for? Fall 2014? If you have enough time to take some undergraduate psych courses, I would strongly encourage it as a working knowledge of psychology is expected for any masters in I/O program. As Bren2014 stated, taking I/O courses is helpful as well, but not essential. I did not take any I/O courses in undergrad (I did major in psychology though). Additionally, I would take a statistics course if possible to refresh yourself with the concepts. I have learned quickly how important statistics is to the field (more so the "I" side of I/O then the "O" side). Your GPA is solid, no concerns warranted there. I would definitely aim to do fairly well on the GREs (at least above the 50th percentile). SIOP (Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology) provides information about the average GRE score for admitted students to Albany's program. Although the information on there is a bit outdated, the APA's publication of similar information confirms 50th percentile as a good target for SUNY Albany. Also, there are two other students in the program that come to mind that have similar interests as you in terms of reforming the workplace in a healthcare setting. Let me know if you have any more questions.

You're right, and I agree that having success at the master's degree level in any program (especially another social science) will reflect favorably on you as a candidate for a counseling psych Ph.D. program. But back to your question: "With this being said, is it hard or near impossible to graduate from a master's program in sociology to go into a counseling psychology Ph.D. program?" I would say it is neither hard, nor impossible to do it and I think by responding to my previous post, in a way, you answered your own question. You will have a solid foundation following your master's that can definitely strengthen your application for a Ph.D. program in Counseling. My comments about the M.A. courses not transferring was more of a "heads up" comment as I know people who have had to spend an additional 5 years in grad school after their masters because their Ph.D. program did not accept their master's courses.

I don't think it matters if your masters was in an unrelated field since students are capable of being admitted to Ph.D. programs right from undergrad. The main thing schools might look for is that you completed those core psych courses from your undergrad. Identify what programs you want to apply to and see if they require any additional psych prerequisites beyond the courses you have taken in undergrad I would imagine that not many, if any, of your courses from your masters program will carry over to the Ph.D. program though so keep that in mind because spending 2 years towards a masters degree and then an additional 5+ years towards a Ph.D. is quite a long time to be in grad school. Of course, you did mention your program is a concentration in social psych so I may be wrong about your courses not transferring. Hope this helps and best of luck with your endeavors.

Here's an excerpt from an article I found: "Taylor Sparks, a graduate student in industrial-organizational (I/O) psychology, called the "dual" character of this specialty confusing, especially for new students. At least it was confusing to her. But she described the split effortlessly, labeling the industrial side as more empirical and precise, often employing quantitative and empirical methodology, and the organizational side as more “fuzzy” and humanistic often using more qualitative methods." Full article: http://www.allpsychologycareers.com/topics/industrial-organizational-psychology.html I think the article does a nice job of explaining the importance of having a balanced approach to I/O, which from the sounds of it, NYU has the more balanced approach compared to Columbia's program... If I were you, I would choose NYU. Plenty of schools that aren't Ivies, but are still well respected with NYU being one of them.

Any one else get in and plan on attending? Just looking to connect with people I can expect to take classes with in the fall.

Not all individuals who obtain a masters in I/O psychology go on to pursue careers in Human Resources, although, you certainly have the education to do so with such a degree. Some individuals with I/O backgrounds go on to work as management consultants, or in roles conducting personnel research or participating in organizational training and development. I have also found that a masters degree in HR management is really not even needed to pursue a career in HR. Work experience is key for these types of positions (but some positions may require an associate's or bachelors in a related field) and as Bren2014 stated, obtaining the PHR or SPHR ceritifcations are also highly regarded. If you are looking to do something in HR, I would recommend gaining experience before entering into a masters program in HR as I imagine that graduating with a masters in the field without any experience, will probably lead to a frustrating job search as the job prospects are not favorable for someone with no practical experience. In term of career options and salary, I feel that the I/O path will cede you more flexibility to enter careers both inside and outside of HR while a degree in HR management will primarily only lead to positions in HR (given you have experience to go along with the degree). Salary is generally favorable for careers in HR and for other careers that can be pursued with a background in I/O. For example according to O*NET, the national median salary for a HR Manager is ~$99,000/year (of course experience will be required for these types of positions) and the salary for HR Specialists is ~$54,000/year. While management consultants have a median salary of ~$78,000/year and Training and Development Managers' median salary is ~$91,000/year. I would still encourage those pursuing an I/O masters to gain practical experience as well as this will be invaluable as a practitioner and in today's competitive labor market.

Just wanted to let you guys know that I was admitted to UAlbany's program yesterday - so stoked! Thanks again for your help!

Went to check out their campus a few years ago. Got a weird vibe as well. The campus consisted of only 1 or 2 buildings set in the middle of a predominantly residential area. At the time, a great deal of the faculty were graduates of their program too. Kind of made me wonder why mostly their graduates taught classes there...

161 on both parts? I'm guessing that's like 89th and 86th percentile respectively? I would not waste the time or money if I were you. Your scores are high enough to make any cut-offs that a school might have. As you mentioned, I would spend more time enhancing the other parts of your application. I know clinical psych programs are competitive, but the majority of graduate schools take into account several other variables aside from GRE scores. Your scores are definitely high enough to make the statement that you have the aptitude to do well in graduate school. I wouldn't run the risk of taking it a 2nd time a scoring slightly lower on a section. But then again, it all depends on the caliber of the schools you are applying to and if they are master's or Ph.D. programs. I would contact some of the schools you are looking to apply to and ask them for the median GRE scores for former successful applicants or if you're an APA member (or pay 19.95 for a temporary access to the APA program database), you can look at the graduate schools you are applying to and some of them list the median GRE scores of those who were admitted. Hope this helps. https://my.apa.org/apa/idm/login.seam?ERIGHTS_TARGET=http%3A%2F%2Fgradstudy.apa.org%2Findex.cfm%3Faction%3DcomparePrograms&AUTHENTICATION_REQUIRED=true#

I agree with Psychkita. Your chances of being admitted into any graduate program really depend on a number of different things you bring as an applicant. Sure, some schools will have cut-offs for GPA and GRE scores, but low GPA or low GPA scores can be compensated for by other strong parts of your application (i.e. letters of recommendation, personal statement, work experience, etc.) Additionally, some things you may want to consider in choosing schools to apply to: - Are the programs you are interested in approved as meeting the educational requirements for licensure in the state you want to work in? This is big especially if you want to establish your own practice and since many employers will require licensure. - Do any of these programs offer financial aid? Mental health counseling is one of the lower-paying disciplines in psychology with the median salary being right around $40,000/year nationwide and going to a big-name private school might not be in your best interest (depending on your financial situation of course).

Thanks for the great advice from both of you! I can already think of some experiences that have steered in the direction of I/O - thanks again!

Thank you, and good luck to you as well! =)

I thought I had wanted to do counseling, after taking 2 semesters of courses and gaining some work experience, I realized it's not for me. Do you really think the faculty reviewing my application will care that I started my graduate study in a different field? I've heard of graduate students switching programs and I know people who have graduated with a master's in one field but were admitted to a PhD program in a somewhat unrelated field,

Only applied to one! SUNY Albany for their master's in I/O psychology Here's to putting all my eggs in one basket!

I worked in the same one for all 3 semesters. It was working with the social psychologist of the department on a study that examined the effect of computer-mediated communication on our opinions of others. I helped pilot the study though so a lot of work went into those three semesters.

Hello Everyone - Just wanted to see your thoughts about my chance of getting admitted into University at Albany's master's program in I/O Psychology. I graduated from SUNY Oneonta about a year ago with a B.S. in Psychology Undergraduate GPA: 3.98 Major GPA: 4.00 My GRE scores were: Verbal: 540 Quantitative: 700 Analytical Writing: 4.0 During undergrad I obtained 3 semesters of research experience and presented at our college's research symposium. I am currently enrolled in a master's program in counseling where I have a 4.0 GPA so far. I also have a year of work experience under my belt which includes doing some staffing and recruitment for a local nonprofit and I now currently work for the Dept. of Labor assisting job seekers to find work. What're your thoughts? I've heard I/O programs focus primarily on research and/or work experience so I'm not entirely sure where I stand... Thank you in advance!