surefire

I feel compelled to add, just so that wait-listers and decision-makers are both stressing out in an informed fashion... This is not a 1:1 ratio thing. Depending on the flexibility that a department has, and/or its expectations regarding its offers, the admission committee may make a number of offers that TAKES INTO ACCOUNT the likelihood that a few of these will be declined by those in the first round. When I was on an admission committee, we were aiming to put together a cohort of 12. We extended 15 offers, assuming that a couple of people would decline. We had 5 prospective students that, for varying reasons, declined the offer. So we sent out 3 more offers, picking out the top three from our ranked waitlist. Two of these accepted (one had already accepted elsewhere). So there it was, our cohort of 12, assembled and finalized! In this case, 5 first-round declines only worked out to 3 more offers. There's a lot of room for variance (there's actually more complexity behind this anecdote, but I'll spare you the exacting requirements and limits pertaining to extending offers for international students...). These decisions are all huge, life-altering prospects, and they totally qualify for a latent level of stress. This is compounded by the fact that the process is obscured from us. This is why people flock to places like grad cafe - to get support and empathy but also input from others as we attempt to divine the adcomms decisions and decision-making process. I would not fault, or be hostile to, anyone who is trying to articulate a pattern to try and get some insight into their own outcome. With this in mind, I re-iterate: a declined acceptance does not a wait-lister offer make. If you're going to stress, at least stress in an informed fashion, lest the anxiety be ill-communicated/misdirected/only good for an ulcer.

Behold, evidence of the always popular, negatively connotated expression: "I got York-ed". In all seriousness, that letter situation is every level of suck; I hope that it goes better for you this round!

Hi chrisscoff! I did a double-major in undergrad (English Lit and Sociology). It was advantageous insofar as I was able to make sense of my interests in a sound personal statement/research proposal for grad school. In my case, there was no doubt that Sociology was the field from which I was proceeding, considering the questions that I was posing. As well, I employed socio-linguistics and critical discourse analysis for method/theory considerations, passions that I honed in English Lit. By holding these in tandem, I gave my academic trajectory a narrative - to show where I'd been, where I was and where I was headed. If you can make sense of it, in a genuine fashion, then I'd imagine that you will be fine. Law and Society and Women's Studies can totally make sense! good luck!

Yes. I've totally done this, as you can see by my signature. In my experience, doing the two-programs-one-school thing involves: - 2 app fees - 2 applications - 2 sets of meetings/POIs/contacts - 2 recruitment days - Treading VERY lightly on faculty sensibilities. There are lines of allegiances, loyalties and interests and one should be conscious of this. Be clear with POIs in discussions, just because they are interested in your research, doesn't mean that they are willing to supervise you if you are in whatever department. I was lucky that I was able to be honest with most contacts, and could let them know about my multiple apps without defensiveness; a few though, wanted to know what discipline I was leaning towards and how I had found myself in the position of straddling a few disciplines to begin with... be sensible and self-aware and diplomatic and you'll be fine. Yes. This. All the time.

I really enjoyed that piece! Thank you very much for sharing! It's definitely something worth steeling yourself against, or developing strategies for. How stressful that it can set in at the application stage, before the first year even begins! Funny enough, reflecting back on a recent conversation, I suppose that the imposter symptoms have weaseled in already, albeit innocuously... I was talking to a previous MA supervisor about having a couple of offers and I said something to the effect of : "Yeah, I'm a lucky little scholar to have options!" And she called me on it! She said, "Why are you diminutising?! You can't fool me, I KNOW the effort that this took and I know the competitiveness of your programs!" I'm going to have to work on my self-advocacy... but it's nice to have connections to profs that can identify imposter syndrome when it creeps in and to help show it the door!

Just signed on the dotted line for the University of Toronto!

Hey melissa_2323, I applied for the PhD level. I've gotten no word and my status is still "under review". I'm thinking of e-mailing them to let them know that I'm going to be taking one of my other offers and to... I don't know... withdraw my file? I wonder if it would be less disruptive if I just let the process run its course and see what decision comes down... Anyway, I was accepted to the Sociology Department at U of T in February, and my status on THAT file just changed to "Decision Made" this week; more than a month since I was given the unofficial offer and three weeks since I got the official offer in the mail. I'm not sure that I can read the SGS tea leaves on this one... I'm sorry that it's stressing you out! Rogue029! It's good to see you crop up again! Did you go ahead and confirm with SLST at York, or are you waiting for verdicts on your other apps first? I was up at York last week and met with the SLST grad director RIGHT before she held the MA open house (did you get to go?) My offer still stands re: advice-giving, I'm happy to share! I think that I'm going to have to give up my SLST PhD offer for the U of T's Sociology Department one, and though it's the best thing for my interests and research, it was still a really tough decision! Hope that all's well with you! PM me at your leisure!

My guess, from having been on an adcomm, is that they've mostly established everyone's designation, but they're still ranking. In my experience, adcomms members independently assemble a list of people they'd like to admit and then everyone gets together to compare notes. This part doesn't take so long (remember, this is a group of people largely accustomed to working independently). What takes a long time is the next step, when all the members come together to arrive at a consensus. There is usually quite a bit of overlap regarding which applicants were picked, but then, each must be ranked, and everyone needs to mostly agree to the rankings. Then they need to do it again for a wait-list. This needs to happen for purposes of funding and so that, when a few people invariably turn down some of the first-round offers, new offers can be extended without everyone having to be gathered again to make decisions. It's easier if the adcomms cover their bases and agree upon the ranking of a few dozen applicants (even if, for example, they only put out 14 initial offers, officially wait-list 10 and ultimately accept 12). I think that my adcomm ranked up to number 30, even though less than half of the list was ultimately utilized.. I know that it doesn't seem like it, because the waiting and subterfuge surrounding the process are so tortuous, but adcomms would like to have decisions made ASAP too so that they can confirm the composition of their cohort. The long meeting periods are ultimately to ensure that the process doesn't break down. It's really difficult to get adcomm members in the same room, especially for a series of meetings that requires consensus and, thus, will just take however long they take. They have other commitments, and the discussions are long and intense, when they're done, they need to know that they are DONE so they can commit to other stuff. It would be nearly impossible to KEEP gathering them together to meet in that manner, so they try to make/finalize as many decisions as they can so that the grad administrator can keep moving on the offers (so that when a first-round offer is declined and the first few wait-list people also decline because they've already accepted other offers, the next name on the list is right there!) I hope that makes sense! And though it doesn't necessarily point to your own status, I hope that the insight would be little comforting, as it illustrates that the process is thorough and purposeful (which, I know, we sometimes can't help but doubt)! Good luck!

*whistles* Over here! Got a phone call early last week (in my experience, York always calls first). Once I got the phone call, the other steps happened pretty fast. By week's end, I got an electronic copy of the initial offer, my online status changed and I received a bunch of e-mails prompting me to attend a Symposium held by current grad students (the event is on campus tomorrow). I RSPV-ed to the event, received a hard copy of the initial offer by post and an electronic copy of the financial offer on Monday. I have to give them a decision by next Thursday (March 22nd). The fast and furious pressure leads me to believe that this is a first round affair, so even if you haven't heard yet, I'd say that there's still hope. Good luck!

There's are two posts for the York Socio-Legal Studies program in the Results Survey. One at the MA level that was earlier last week, and one that was at the PhD level (which was mine, from Friday evening). I also know that a non-grad cafer colleague of mine got into the program at the PhD level on Friday evening as well (we both have our MA from the program). The York Socio-Legal MA program is amazing (though I think I'm turning down the offer to go elsewhere) so I hope that you get good news! It's tiny, and in my experience, it sometimes takes a little longer than other programs to get its cohorts comprised (I had a friend accepted to the PhD level last year... from the waitlist, in August!) I know for a fact that this is only their first round! Best of luck!

A time-travelling letter meant for future you? (That is, you've attended/convocated and, um, gotten married?)

I'm so glad that you brought this up! I'm deciding between two institutions in the same city! One which is a lovely 20 minute bike ride from my house and the other that is an agonizing hour+ on the subway/bus (the subway does not extend to the campus, and will not until 2015). I've had several people tell me that they would heavily weight the commute aspect in their decision. Initially I thought that this was a little indulgent, but reflecting on my MA experience (at the uni that required the hour+ commute), yeah, it was a pretty significant quality of life indicator and, often, an impediment to my work. HA! YES! It's hard to convey to people that I am missing the major adult marker of car ownership for a litany of reasons, including the cost of maintaining a car in this city, the angst involved in parking/storage and the unavoidable fact that I'm not very good at it. I'm not anti-car... it's, well, as you say, just best for all concerned that I don't possess or employ the use of one

Balls. Sorry cokohlik! Without patronizing, and with the acknowledgement that I can't really fit it in your mailbox to balance out the ickiness:

Congrats! I've seen you pacing the board not-so-patiently waiting and I know that the suspense was eating at you a bit; I'm so pleased that it's resolved for you! Thank you so much for sharing your experience and being upfront with your "second-time" status! I know that it's encouraging for those coming to grips with, potentially, taking on a second app season or are in the midst of trying to soldier through experience/character-builders like unpaid internships (I did one of these last year and had to have two other part-time gigs to make it work!) I hope that you took some time for self-care/reward (which, in this process, is more about self-preservation than self-indulgence!) Congrats again and best of luck!

AlyaLeka, That insight is actually very helpful! It has been iterated to me on a couple of occasions, but it's useful to keep it in the foreground. A few profs have said that a U of T PhD would really complement my academic narrative (small liberal undergrad where I knew all the profs really well to specialized master's in a large institution but small competitive cohort to PhD in mid-sized, renowned university). I really enjoyed my tine undergrad, and was afraid that this trajectory towards the prestigious and the established meant that I was getting away from the socially-aware and the activist (as university profiles go). The opportunity to cultivate different viewpoints and networks, as you say, helps to enhance my exposure and capacity. I suppose, then,it is a larger question of wanting a space where I can retain and test and build upon my academic skills and principles - compromising between clinging to them (which inhibits growth) and dispensing with/replacing them entirely (which would produce a different type of scholar than the one I'd like to be). Thanks for bouncing some of this back with me AlyaLeka! As for my strategies, I found that the best thing that I could do was commit to activies, for an hour or so at a time, that demand methodical or repetitive engagement, are productive, and will not allow you to hold a device that will let you check your e-mail. I did a lot of cooking and going to the gym. These were excellent for me because I couldn't check my e-mail on the treadmill or with salmonella-y hands and the activities were rewarding (in the sense that I felt good or had something to show for the effort - this last part is important, pick an activity that gives you positive gratification and a sense of accomplishment/closure, because this is what you are seeking, but not yet finding, in the app process!) I've had friends who had similar success with practicing the guitar, knitting and (no jokes!) trimming a bonsai tree. Once I had some of my anxieties exorcised (exercised?), I found that I could be out with friends without being a total drag (I could keep my mind/the conversation OFF of app-related stuff, I also disabled my phone's data plan). The most helpful outings were ones where my friends were showcasing (that is, their band was playing, or they were hosting a gallery opening or performing at a poetry slam). Nothing helps you wriggle out of your own apprehensions like celebrating the sucesses of friends! TL;DR: Prioritize self-care, but don't self-medicate! Best of luck and I hope that you get the outcome that you want from York!

^ THIS Great thread, I need all the help I can get with this decision. A recent consideration that has entered the fray is the qual/quant dicotomy. How are these emphasized/represented by the faculty/students/department? I didn't really even think much about this until a Prof. that I was seeking advice from mentioned it. Oddly, this now has me favouring the department that intends to MAKE me take social statistics courses... I have always favoured qual. methods (and these are well represented in this program) BUT I'd ALSO like to have the benefit of a varied methods toolbox at my disposal (and, let's be clear, it is hard to self-impose a stats. course if it's not a requirement). My contribution to the just-kidding-but-not-entirely criteria: 1) Grad student lounge: Is it sequestered (read: inaccessible to undergrads) but also not completely isolated/isolating (read: coffee dispensing unit nearby, frequented by other grad students from whom I can leech empathy)? What I'm saying is, can it pass the "snuggie test"? Optimally, I should be able to sit in the lounge in utter comfort (i.e. a snuggie) without fear of constant interruption/judgment, but when I DO see people, I can rest assured that they will default to understanding (as opposed to scrutinizing the snuggie).

Hi again AlyaLeka! Thank you very much for the congrats! I am feeling like a very lucky little scholar for being in a position to choose between a handful of awesome programs! I know that your program has been a bit slow in moving towards decisions, but I hope that your app season has been treating you well nonetheless! I do indeed have an ongoing York v. Toronto type situation. The U of T offer is time sensitive (March 30th) but I'm waiting on one more offer, funding info for both York programs and two recruitment days (most of these will be resolved this week) so that I can formulate an informed decision. I am absolutely open to ANY insight on this choice, so if you or others feel compelled to push me one way or the other, please feel free to PM me and nudge accordingly! Thanks so much for the props; your encouragement is emblematic of the uniquely supportive and stimulating online community that is gradcafe! Everyone here is awesome and I do hope that we all please please please get what we want!

Welcome Rogue029 and congrats on your applications so far! Very exciting! We seem to have very similar discipline interests, judging by our app signatures (I'd be interested to know what department you applied to at U of T...) I was accepted to York's PhD program in Socio-Legal Studies last week (York always phones, I love that!) I've got a few other offers and A LOT of thinking to do! I did my MA in the SLST program at York in 2010. If you wanna PM me, I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can regarding the program (in particular, I'd like to hear what your research interests are and whom you have in mind as a propective supervisor, if you feel like sharing). Things have likely changed since I convocated, but I've stayed in touch with current faculty/students and can answer according to my experience, and that might help give you some context (to start, your feelings regarding the funding are likely accurate, I found it to be quite comfortable). I very much enjoyed my time in the program! Congrats again and feel free to touch base!

I would also like to let you off the hook, but I received my acceptance from U of T at 5:30 p.m. on a Friday... I got an electronic version of the official admission offer at 6:30 p.m. last Wednesday. Syrah's got a point though, get thee to a shower-y! Seriously, I kept my sanity by designating e-mail checking windows during the day, built around my workday, once during morning coffee break, once at lunch, once in the afternoon and once when I get home. I try to only check a handful of times on the weekend. I didn't see the Friday evening acceptance until Sunday afternoon, and you know what? It felt just as awesome on Sunday as it would've on Friday... the admission didn't up and delete itself from my inbox because it wasn't feeling sufficiently obsessed over. It's hard to to tell others not to fixate... but try not to fixate!

I know that the Canadian applicants/schools are a little under-represented on this thread, but in case it's of interest to anyone... I just got an acceptance to York University's PhD program in Sociology! I'm currently sitting on a University of Toronto offer and will need to start the neurotic pro/con lists; I can't believe that I'm in a position to choose! Any insight or willful nudges towards one or the other welcome! If anyone wants more details let me know!

Accepted to York's PhD program in Sociology! I've been sitting on the U of T offer for a bit, so it'll be nice to compare and contrast the programs and be able to make an informed decision (there will be so many neurotic pro/con lists)! I can't believe I'm in a position to choose! I am open to any insight!

Gah! I abhor these things! The only thing worse is the grad picture people! It's like, "No, I do not want to spend $150 on many copies of awkward me sashaying across the stage with an expression that emulates, not joy or achievement, but unadulterated fear that I will trip, discomfort because I couldn't pin the robe properly and regret regarding my choice of shoes. In any case, I have, already, scanned copies of the sample pic that you sent, digitally removed the watermark and sent it 'round to close friends/family who were interested (and can laugh WITH me and my obstinate expression). So leave me alone!" Besides, I WILL convocate again someday! I've got a few years to practice my picture smile for next time!

Hi Josh, Congrats on your aspirations! Let me start by saying, I think that you should address it in your SOP. The amount of space that you spend depends on the word limit (I wouldn't spend a whole paragraph is the SOP limit is 500 words) and how concisely you can effectively address it. You need to do more than just acknoweldge it (which you can do in one sentence). You have to address the parameters that Asher has laid out (which I think you could do in about 3-4 sentences). I would use it as a side theme, not a foundational emphasis (that is, use the experience as evidence of what you should be professing throughout the SOP, that you are capable). Adcomms need to know that you can finish the degree. To effectively address the issue, you need to approach the grades/anxiety thing as something that you proactively addressed, rather than something that just happened to you unfairly. Your effectiveness is steeped in your emphasis in what you did about it, and less about what happened. If you OWN it in this fashion, you can aspire to make the experience part of your positive self-promotion, rather than something that needs to be dragged into the light only to be quickly/superficially excused and then swept back under the rug. When I sat on an adcomm, the most boring SOPs were the ones from students who had consistent performance but had met with no challenges. I'm not talking about life-altering, biopic-worthy stuff necessarily; just something to show that you developed some resourcefulness (for example, a student who maintained consistent grades while holding down a part time job was more impressive than one with just the consistent grades, a student who challenged herself to take advanced theory even though it was scary because she knew it would benefit her honours thesis or grad school aspirations is better than one who padded their GPA with "bird course 101" in their last year). An analogy that might help. Your credit rating is something you build on with good planning and performance, though it can be upset profoundly by life events. You aim to maintain a good score because a positive rep will provide opportunities later on. while a good rating is ideal, a less-than-perfect rating is still preferable to no rating, because people providing the opportunities don't know how bad a "no rating" candidate might be. Applicants with okay grades but who have not overcome anything, are kind of like "no rating" candidates, they haven't had their mettle tested, which leaves one wondering, when they are faced with their first bout of adversity in grad school, will they weather it or have a total meltdown? (Note: this is not to say that we all don't have our own struggles ect; but adcomms can only know what they can glean from info provided; if you don't show, they can't tell; if you don't describe/address events, they can't infer that, "well, I'm sure that they sorted that out somehow...") Ultimately, I WOULD advise you to address it. AND I would suggest that you use the space as an opportunity to show that you have been tested (it helps if the anxiety is confirmed by a doctor or other authority), that you came out on the other side (this helps if you site something specific and proactive, like if you sought out the academic skills centre for help, this is more compelling then, "I overcame it with sheer determination"), and that you still have the drive not DESPITE the experience, but because you used the experience to help build a skill set that you are able to draw upon for future problem-solving and success. I would recommend that you show drafts of your SOP to your LOR writers, to ensure that you are coming across in the desired way. Side bar: My partner is a video game developer and works with a litany of programmers, coders and computer science people. I'm not endorsing a stereotype, but there is a lot of shared experience amongst his colleagues concerning social anxiety. I think that it is VERY LIKELY that your experience will be met with empathy (as I've said, however, I would encourage you to aim to not just garner understanding, but to use the experience/SOP space to drive home the point that you are a capable, tested candidate). Best of luck!

3/2 A T4 Room mate's food handler training certificate (which came in a big deceptive envelope)

Congrats on the positive interview and the warm fuzzies that the school is giving you! My input: if you get an offer via a phone call (as opposed to notice via e-mail or the online app system), then there's a chance that it might be from the program director or a faculty member, that is, someone who is not equipped to take down an official acceptance. I know that that might seem silly, but the accept/decline letter that comes in the mail (or, in some cases, is part of the online process) is pretty specialized. Often, it asks you to check an "accept" or "decline" box (and in the case of the latter, there might be an additional option to elaborate on your decision, "insufficient funding" "already accepted elsewhere" ect;). As well, the form usually needs your signature and the date. A graduate administrator usually recieves this and ensures that the info is lodged in the right place. I'm not the type of person that plays it cool and coy with offers, so I won't tell you to NOT get excited over the phone; however, excitement and commitments over the phone do not an official acceptance make. TL;DR: If you like it you must put a bureaucratic ring on it.