philosophe

From what I've gleaned, a lot of rejections will come in the form of "check our website" emails, and then there will be a rejection letter on the website. Not saying that's true for all schools -- I believe a few acceptances may come this way as well, for larger schools with a bigger applicant pool (like Cambridge, etc.), but that's what I noticed from last year's rejection result submissions.

The one major piece of advice I received from my advisor was to "apply widely" and that "you never know." I took that to heart and basically consider this to be a down payment on my education. I really do not want to apply again, considering I took a few years off and already have a lot of time and space between my letter writers and I. I'm either going to be accepted somewhere come this Feb/March, or accept that maybe I'm not cut out to be a philosopher, and find a new career path. Also, unrelated, but I would recommend applying to UK schools because for many there are no app fees.

Ok, cool. This is a learning experience for me. I'm using this thread to flush out what may or may not be true about my understanding, thanks for helping me on this. To your first point, I always had the understanding that most PhD programs will fund you, and that if they won't fund you, it's not worth it. I've also been given the impression that many terminal MA programs will either not fund you, fund you partially, or that you would have to be very top tier to get fully funded. Is that inaccurate in your experience? To your second point, I totally agree. To your third point, my "what a fate" comment was supposed to be a good natured allusion to the fate we are all approaching, assuming we are successful in obtaining the required graduate training first. It's a tough road. Regarding the second part of your comments... I understand why the extra years would, assuming you're funded, seem like another great couple of years. I guess to me, my thought is that another couple of years on a grad school stipend when I (as a woman) am going to want to do things like have children, seems like a long time to wait before even attempting the job market. Anyway, i see where you're coming from.

Right, I used to sit as the undergrad rep in dept meetings at Brandeis, and I saw how limited the funding could be. They fully funded a few people, and gave TA fellowships, but I was surprised at the expense so many people were paying when historically this has been something completely funded en route to the phd. I understand some MA programs have a larger budget, but of my friends currently in MA programs, only one of them has been fully funded for a terminal MA (at Ohio University).

Right, I agree. I think this trend is a real shame because it's requiring students wishing to pursue philosophy to 1) have the money to pay for an MA, unless they get lucky and find one funded and 2) require students to apply twice, which seems cruel (and expensive, yet again). Meanwhile, the credits might not transfer, not to mention the extra years, all for the uncertain job market. What a fate! Anyway, I recently met my dept. chair for coffee, and he mentioned that he personally did not think it would be a problem, since in his experience students who end up in MA programs did not usually major in philosophy, or had gone to a lesser known school, and therefore they were not strong candidates for PhD programs in the first place. The idea was less that these students were gaining years more of experience and more that they were "catching up." Do you think these points have any merit? Again, these are opinions individuals and I do not mean to generalize about anyone in an MA program. Please let me know if you have had a different experience.

I wish, but unlikely seeing as it's a holiday... Martin Luther King day. I assume that depts get that off, I do at my University.

Interesting, thanks SelfHatingPhilosopher!

I'll explain my experience -- I went to a university where there is a relatively new MA program blooming along a decades-old undergraduate one. As an undergrad I was allowed into the Graduate Seminar on Epistemology, because it was being taught by my advisor. He informed the course that "as long as everyone did what they needed to do" they would receive at least an A-, because "this is a graduate course." I got this feeling that this is a predominate trend, though I obviously can't confirm. The placement record is as important to a terminal MA program as the job placement record is to PhD programs. Obviously students want to attend programs that will make them most successful, particularly because the terminal MA programs do not provide funding, and they are often putting money into the degree. It's clearly in the program's best interest to grade those students as highly as possible, and, it seems to me, there's a perpetuating cycle in this respect. Grade inflation = more successful PhD applications = more students desiring to attend that terminal MA program. On the contrary, undergraduate courses do not have that investment in the student's success. Likewise, the master's students were given assistance with their writing samples in a way that undergraduate students did not receive. I have no idea if this is representative, so I was wondering if anyone could speak to whether or not that has been their experience. And, basically, I'm curious how these factors play out in adcoms.

Hi All, I see on this thread there are many students applying to PhD programs straight from undergrad, and also many applying after having received an MA. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything on how the admissions committees usually deal with this discrepancy. For example, do some departments prefer students without an MA in order to "start fresh" or prefer students with MAs because they already have the grad experience? In my experience, MA students are likely to have perfect GPAs from their program, because the program has a stake in PhD placement, and therefore there is certainly grade inflation. If you have an MA, was it like that in your program? Basically I'm wondering what the advantages/disadvantages are for students applying straight from their BA, vs. applying having received an MA. Thanks in advance for your comments.

I applied to St Andrews, which wanted 3,000 words... and I was going to apply to King's College, who wanted something around 2,000 as well. Honestly, I submitted something too long, but I'd rather it be too long than compromise the quality of my argument. Make it a pdf, and they'd have to use word count to figure it out anyway, which they're not going to do. Personally, it didn't seem worth trying to make another, shorter essay viable when I had been working on this one for a year. If the biggest thing they have against me is that my writing sample is a couple pages over, so be it.

I hadn't seen this! Thanks! "Don't worry.... He still likes John Rawls..."

I sincerely hope I have this problem.

Yeah, although there's a really negative vibe going on on the women in philosophy thread. I'm kind of bummed. Oh well, you guys are great.

Additionally, there's no need to be rude, or accuse each other of internalized misogyny. This should be a forum for positive debate and encouragement.

I think it's important to recognize that ethics / social / political philosophy are as respectable as any other area of philosophy. Simply divergent. Also, I know many respectable female philosophy students who have very happily chosen these areas. I don't think misogyny accounts for the entirety of this trend that I have seen in my experience. I'm simply wondering why I am the only woman who has listed "Epistemology" as a primary interest.

I worked in graduate admissions (not for any schools with phil programs) but I personally checked it because it was fun to see what people were saying. That being said, I'm a hip 20-something and I imagine anyone over the age of 25 has better things to do. Even if they did check it, it would be way weird and rather difficult for them to try and "track down" who was who, even if they did have the time and desire to do so. Most of my phil profs were still trying to figure out how to save documents to their desktops. I wouldn't be concerned.

I know that checking a place like grad cafe probably increases anxiety, but I have to say that I enjoy the sense of good-spirited camaraderie. We're all in this together.

Also, as a woman interested in primarily epistemology and logic, I've noticed that most women in the field tend to be on the social and political end of the phil spectrum. I think it's interesting that even in philosophy, many women are in traditional female areas that consider things like moral/ethical quandaries, rather than cold M&E. Not to stereotype, (obviously, because I don't fall under this category) but that has been my experience and I wonder why this is. I agree that old, white men tend to be the gate keepers. I also think that it's harder to be "taken seriously" as a female philosopher. I had a brilliant Hume scholar for a professor, and when she got pregnant all the male students would talk about was the size of her boobs. There's something about walking into a room in a suit that gives you instant authority in a way that walking in in a dress never can.

Hi friends, female applicant here. I must say, I understand why there is a dearth of women in philosophy. You have no idea how much crap I've been getting from friends and family. Things a la "are you sure you want to do this?" "the job market..." "won't you want to have a family?" "seven years!?" "prime baby time" etc. They point to the number of women who succeed in getting their PhD, as if the fact that I might fail implies that I shouldn't even try. I've been feeling that glass ceiling, and I haven't even been accepted anywhere yet. It's a shame. It's like, if I were applying to top law schools I would receive things like "good luck, I hope you get in," but throw in that it's philosophy, and that it's for a PhD and suddenly it's a shit show. And I come from Los Angeles and Boston, so it's not like I'm in a conservative, stay-at-home area. Anyone else getting this reaction?

I just saw that, freaked, then realized it said classics. Thank god.

Yeah, thanks! What about you? I see you're in Cambridge. I'm there everyday, I have a day job at Harvard Extension.

As someone who used to process writing samples in a graduate admissions office, it happens all the time. They really won't care, just let them know and email them the updated sample.

By the way, this is totally unrelated, but can you guys believe that Boulder got zero funding for philosophy this year? There goes an additional 5 spots, as if the competition wasn't fierce already. I wonder what the deal is, that must be awful for the department not to mention totally embarrassing to refund the app fees. Thoughts?

There's absolutely a self-serving point to it. After months of vetting students and finally selecting the chosen few, it's nice on both sides to share in the joy. At least that's the thought. I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you don't want to speak with them, don't pick up for unknown numbers, they'll leave you a message, and you can follow up by email.

Thanks! that does make me feel better.