Sociology masters or PhD?

[Ericnm]

Hello everyone. I'm writing this post in hopes that I can get a better idea of what to expect out of sociology PhD vs. Masters program and which, if either, might be a good fit for me.

A little background on me: I hold a BA in English and a clinical Master of Social Works. After graduating with my MSW,  I went to work in a state-funded detox center for 1 year. The work was extremely difficult, emotionally draining, and paid very little. The experience put the final nail in the coffin of my social work career, though I'd been having doubts about it prior to this job, and I decided to leave social work when I got an entry-level position in a corporate environment. I have now been working my corporate job for about a year, and while I appreciate the stability it has offered me and the chance to experience another work setting, I have realized it is also not an environment I necessarily find much fulfillment or interest in.

I enjoyed many of my social work classes (much more than I did the English classes I took in undergrad), especially the ones dealing with theory and macro-issues. Hell, research methods was one of my favorite courses I ever took. Thinking about what the next steps for me might be, I believe that getting a masters and/or PhD in sociology may be a good move, with the eventual goal of becoming a professor (a long shot, I know). I have also considered a PhD in social work to become a professor, but I do not have any desire to return to being a practicing social worker, and many universities require at least two years of hands on experience to teach SW classes.

I have plenty of experience writing research papers for various classes, but nothing approaching a social science thesis, nor do I have any publications to my name. Given this, I think it might be prudent for me to pursue a master's in sociology before attempting to apply to any kind of PhD programs. Given my background and goals, does anyone have any input on what they think might be most helpful for me to look into? Is it pointless to consider a Masters in sociology without research experience? Will I be more likely to get funding if I go through the masters program?

My undergrad GPA was something like 3.6 and graduate was 3.98. My GRE scores were: Verbal 163; Quant 155; Writing 5.5.

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ericnm

[Madelene]

I deliberated for a while about whether to pursue a Masters first, too. I didn't have any publications--just an undergraduate thesis at a liberal arts college--and that scared me, so I thought I could buy some time with a Masters.

The best piece of advice I got was from a professor of mine who said, "Look, you can go get a Masters, go into thousands more dollars of debt, or you can go get a Ph.D. Because I know you, and if you go get a Masters, you're gonna start working as an associate researcher somewhere, realize you want theoretical and thematic independence, and realize you need a Ph.D. for that."

She was definitely right, although I know it's not the right choice for many people. If your goal is to become a professor (and you realize how difficult that is), then definitely get a Ph.D., because you can't really teach sociology without it. And if you get a Masters and then choose to go for your Ph.D., you will probably have to redo some coursework (unless you stay at the same institution) and will be in significant debt.

 

Plus, you have a great GPA and GRE scores! If you can put together a good writing sample and statement, I'm sure any program will realize they'd be lucky to have you.

[rising_star]

@Madelene, your professor did you a disservice by not pointing you toward funded master's programs.

[X.G]

There are some fully/partially funded programs in sociology/social sciences I know: MA. in social sciences/computational social sciences at the University of Chicago, MA for sociology from Boston University, MA at DePaul etc. But I think @Madelene is also right in point out how difficult it is to get a fully funded offer for Master's programs. Plus, even if tuition can be waived, living as a student is still costly.  

Edited February 8, 2018 by X.G

[rising_star]

@X.G, assistantships for MA students often have comparable pay to those for a PhD and come with a tuition waiver. And there are definitely more funded MA programs in sociology than what you just listed.

@Ericnm, do you have a clear sense of the kind of research you want to do in sociology? From reading your post, it isn't clear why you want to become a professor and how you chose sociology, rather than another field. To do well in a sociology (or any social science) program, you're going to need to have some clear research interests and go beyond the undergraduate courses you enjoyed. Sorting that out might also help you identify funded MA programs (if you decide to do a MA first).

[Madelene]

12 hours ago, rising_star said:

@Madelene, your professor did you a disservice by not pointing you toward funded master's programs.

I think if my career aspirations were different--this would be true. However, the financial part was her way to get me to just take some time--rather than go get another degree and build debt--while I figured out what I wanted.

[iwearflowers]

Have you thought about looking for research jobs first and then pursuing a PhD? Spending time as a research associate at a social sciences focused firm has been helpful for me in terms of clarifying my goals and interests. It's also reaffirmed that I really want to work as a researcher and given me some opportunities to publish and present at conferences. Since you already have a master's, I wouldn't look at school as the only path forward. The research team I worked with while I was getting my MPH had some MSWs on it. I think it's just about finding the right fit. I could definitely see your previous work lending itself to research in health delivery systems for those with substance use disorders. Health services research teams are often looking for people with a direct-care background to contribute to their projects, and the fields are closely enough related to make the shift into a sociology program if that's what you decide you want.

[pinoysoc]

Jumping in here.

I also had the same thought years ago as an undergraduate. I always thought that going straight to a PhD program is the way to go, but I learned that's not always the case. Going into a PhD program means you already know what you want to study, why you want to study it,  and have or show potential to adcomms that you'll succeed in the program. On the other hand, going through an MA program means you have the luxury of refining what you want to study, why you want to study it, and actually build your CV. There are definitely funded MA programs, however, you must do the legwork of looking for them. Word of caution though, going through the MA program will not make it easier to get into a PhD program. I'm learning that the hard way because I already got rejected from 3 schools and I'm 99% sure I'm not going to get into a program for this fall. There's no shame in doing this in baby steps, but it does take a toll mentally on you.

[simmel-ite]

This is a tough decision and I think it depends on your goals. I'm also just applying this season to PhD programs, so who knows if this advice is helpful. 

I'm applying for the first time this season, and I graduated with a masters last spring. I really enjoyed my program and I don't think I'd be getting into programs now (a top 50, 2 top tens, 1 top 5, waiting on others) without it. Coming out of undergrad I had no RA experience, and only one research paper from a semester long project (thesis length, but not a thesis). After working for a few years I decided to get an MA because it would help me out professionally (access to more ops, and higher pay), I missed researching, and I really wanted to learn more. I also knew that I needed real research experience if I determined I did want to get into a doctoral program and believed the program would help me figure that out. It was such a good experience,  though it wasn't perfect.  I was able to do a thesis, become an RA, and leverage being at the midpoint in my degree to get a job as a researcher in my field full-time with a firm (which I think really helped me out).  The experience, for me, confirmed that I wanted to do more research and tackle my own problems, and I waited to apply until my professors saw my thesis, which meant working for a year (and paying off my degree/just living/applying). I'll note that my GRE scores also went up when I took it after my masters program significantly, and I think the program really improved my writing and my understanding of research.

I think it's a tough choice, but it was really clarifying for me, helped me confirm that I wanted to get a Soc PhD. It was hard - professors care a lot about doc students so I had to be sure I showed up and really got to know them (e.g., office hours, taking independent study courses, taking multiple classes with them) to ensure that I got good recs. However, that really paid off and I also felt they were just caring and great advisers.  It was expensive though (I worked full time while doing it, which was a tradeoff), but that was okay because I knew the program I was in could lead me to better job opportunities in my field OR set me up for a doctoral program. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by simmel-ite

[Ericnm]

Thank you everyone for your input. I have a lot to think about. 

 

[qeta]

On 2/7/2018 at 7:47 PM, X.G said:

There are some fully/partially funded programs in sociology/social sciences I know: MA. in social sciences/computational social sciences at the University of Chicago, MA for sociology from Boston University, MA at DePaul etc. But I think @Madelene is also right in point out how difficult it is to get a fully funded offer for Master's programs. Plus, even if tuition can be waived, living as a student is still costly.  

University of Toronto has a funded one-year MA program. They apparently get 150 applications and accept ten students per year.

[pinoysoc]

9 hours ago, qeta said:

University of Toronto has a funded one-year MA program. They apparently get 150 applications and accept ten students per year.

You can also add Saint Louis University to that list. They have a great program that's very heavy on methods, urban sociology, medical sociology, and public policy. It's a good start as well.

[Ericnm]

I know this has been discussed at length on many threads, but what is the point of the grad school rankings?

I checked the PhD program for the school where I live now and felt optimistic looking through the professors and different areas of research they specialize in. They seemed to have at least a few professors who had lots of published research and interesting material. My heart sank when I searched their ranking and found them to be tied for #102 with a few other schools, higher only than those schools that had no ranking at all. This seems inauspicious.

 

Getting a PhD where I’m living now would be ideal for many reasons due to my life circumstances and personality, but if it’s a last place rank, would it just be a terrible decision?

[pinoysoc]

48 minutes ago, Ericnm said:

I know this has been discussed at length on many threads, but what is the point of the grad school rankings?

I checked the PhD program for the school where I live now and felt optimistic looking through the professors and different areas of research they specialize in. They seemed to have at least a few professors who had lots of published research and interesting material. My heart sank when I searched their ranking and found them to be tied for #102 with a few other schools, higher only than those schools that had no ranking at all. This seems inauspicious.

 

Getting a PhD where I’m living now would be ideal for many reasons due to my life circumstances and personality, but if it’s a last place rank, would it just be a terrible decision?

I think rank should be the last thing you think about when making a decision. You're applying to get the experience and expertise. Look at the here.

It'd be nice to go to a high-ranked program, but why get in, and then struggle to survive in it? It's really up to you, but the value of a graduate school education is based on what opportunities you take on while being enrolled. Here's another good article to read. 

[xyz234]

1 hour ago, Ericnm said:

I know this has been discussed at length on many threads, but what is the point of the grad school rankings?

I checked the PhD program for the school where I live now and felt optimistic looking through the professors and different areas of research they specialize in. They seemed to have at least a few professors who had lots of published research and interesting material. My heart sank when I searched their ranking and found them to be tied for #102 with a few other schools, higher only than those schools that had no ranking at all. This seems inauspicious.

 

Getting a PhD where I’m living now would be ideal for many reasons due to my life circumstances and personality, but if it’s a last place rank, would it just be a terrible decision?

I think you should think of the US News rankings as a rough gauge of perceived "prestige." On the rankings page you can click on the methodology section, but essentially US News sends out a survey questionnaire to professors in the field asking them to rate departments and then aggregates the results. So, what you see in the list isn't incredibly precise or scientific, but it does roughly show you how other faculty in the field view various departments. At the end of the day, these are the faculty that will be hiring you if you want a tenure track job in academia and academia is still a relatively prestige-focused place.

I don't think ranking is the be-all and end-all, and each person has to decide how much they value other factors like location, faculty fit, and finances. That said, it's disingenuous to act like ranking doesn't matter, especially if your goal is to get a tenure track job in academia. If it isn't then the calculation may change. Some schools may consistently outperform their ranking in terms of placing students in the job market and others may underperform, but in the grand scheme of things this is largely a wash. 

Funding is also something to consider. Does the program you're considering fully fund students? I can't imagine it would be worth it otherwise. I'm not going to tell you what your goals are or what aspects you value most in a program, and there is certainly plenty of room to achieve your goals at a huge range of schools. But I would encourage at least attempting to shoot as high as you can in the rankings and then see what happens.

Edited March 7, 2018 by xyz234