Rutgers or re-apply

[Tnya]

Hey all. I’ve lurked anonymously for a bit, but first post. 

I have applied to history PhDs this round. I have only received one offer from Rutgers. It’s a good offer and an excellent program for particular fields. I just don’t know how well if fits my interests. I am also slightly concerned with the placement record outside of Women’s and African-American History.

I am considering reapplying to programs. However I don’t know how different my application would be apart from some work and more language training (good on two languages but might need to start a third) and perhaps expanding my MA thesis.

Another factor is that my SO will be at Columbia. I probably won’t restrict myself regionally, but would really only want to go beyond NYC if it was my dream program. Rutgers is fairly close which is a point in its favor, but I wouldn’t be able to reapply if I turn it down now, obviously.

If anyone has more insight on the program or an unbiased opinion, I’d really appreciate it!

[Account6567]

I can't speak for Rutgers so this advice is fairly general, but in regards to the line about not knowing how different your application would be, it's best to talk to people from schools you didn't get into and find out why you got rejected. If language training is all you'd need or it seemed to genuinely be a matter of being qualified but getting unlucky for whatever reason, that's one thing. But if it sort of sounds like your application likely isn't going to be good enough down the road either, that's really important to consider. Especially since Rutgers seems to check a few of your key boxes (regional, good funding), for you to turn it down you should feel fairly confident that you'll be able to get into a noticeably better school/situation a year from now. Or, at the very least, that you can expect to get into a school of Rutgers' quality again as backup if need be.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Account6567

[psstein]

2 hours ago, Tnya said:

I have applied to history PhDs this round. I have only received one offer from Rutgers. It’s a good offer and an excellent program for particular fields. I just don’t know how well if fits my interests. I am also slightly concerned with the placement record outside of Women’s and African-American History.

This is a legitimate concern and one that you should strongly consider. Adjunct hell is called hell for a reason. If you're a poor fit, plus you've other concerns, I'd recommend reapplying.

Keep in mind that another year may lead you to find new interests and develop a better sense of what it is you want to do. It may not be history, after all. I'd also say that grad admissions are so arbitrary that you may experience far greater success next year for reasons beyond your control.

What, specifically, is your area of interest?

[AP]

I agree with what has been said but I'm going to play the devil's advocate. Why did you apply to Rutgers in the first place? What moved you to do that? 

[TMP]

If your interests now has changed dramatically, I'd think about turning down Rutgers.  Are there courses that are bieng offered that you are interested in taking?  Usually book lists change little from one year or another (swap a few out, swap a few in).

I'd think hard because you may not be welcomed to re-apply there next  year if you decide over the summer that maybe you should have taken the offer.

If it's a MA/PhD, you can take the offer, work on your MA and refining your intersts and then re-apply to PhD programs on the basis of seeking a better fit.

I have heard of students turning down WGS programs to go to Rutgers--- it's quite excellent.  @gsc is currently there for women's history and may be up for PMing to see if you're overthinking or getting cold feet or your interests truly don't line up with Rugers after all.

[gsc]

Yes, please PM me if you like with any questions, @Tnya, I'm always happy to talk about being a Scarlet Knight. If you're able, you should come to the visit day in a couple weeks — prospective students get to meet with a lot of faculty members one on one (IME), and it's very useful in terms of feeling out the program and your interests.

[astroid88]

13 hours ago, TMP said:

If it's a MA/PhD, you can take the offer, work on your MA and refining your intersts and then re-apply to PhD programs on the basis of seeking a better fit.

How common is this? How do you think other programs view the person switching doctoral programs? 

[rafaelito]

3 hours ago, gsc said:

Yes, please PM me if you like with any questions, @Tnya, I'm always happy to talk about being a Scarlet Knight. If you're able, you should come to the visit day in a couple weeks — prospective students get to meet with a lot of faculty members one on one (IME), and it's very useful in terms of feeling out the program and your interests.

Hey, I am a Rutgers admit as well and will be going to the student's weekend. Question - when discussing "women's history" are you all, in this thread, referring to the broader women's and gender history, lgbt history, history of sexuality, etc. or no? 

[rafaelito]

 

4 minutes ago, astroid88 said:

How common is this? How do you think other programs view the person switching doctoral programs? 

Also curious about this.

[TheHessianHistorian]

3 minutes ago, rafaelito said:

 

Also curious about this.

From what I've heard from my professor mother and grandfather, many ad-coms understand that sometimes it happens and it's unavoidable. Someone gets to a program, they realize it's not working for them, and they transfer to another program. However, it does raise a red flag that either the student did not do their homework on whether or not the first school was a good "fit" for them, or that the student is hard to get along with, or that the student doesn't finish things that they commit to. That one red flag in and of itself won't sink your ship, but if it's combined with another red flag, like a lackluster LOR, or a SOP that mysteriously dances around the transfer issue, or any sign of negativity or contentiousness in your communication with POIs at the new school, it's not going to bode well for you.

[rafaelito]

4 minutes ago, TheHessianHistorian said:

From what I've heard from my professor mother and grandfather, many ad-coms understand that sometimes it happens and it's unavoidable. Someone gets to a program, they realize it's not working for them, and they transfer to another program. However, it does raise a red flag that either the student did not do their homework on whether or not the first school was a good "fit" for them, or that the student is hard to get along with, or that the student doesn't finish things that they commit to. That one red flag in and of itself won't sink your ship, but if it's combined with another red flag, like a lackluster LOR, or a SOP that mysteriously dances around the transfer issue, or any sign of negativity or contentiousness in your communication with POIs at the new school, it's not going to bode well for you.

Cool, yeah I figured it's not the norm but that sometimes it does happen. I definitely don't plan on doing it (wouldn't need to considering where I was accepted) but I was just curious. I guess it's one of those things if it happens naturally then it's understandable but you shouldn't commit to a Phd program thinking that it might happen. 

[rafaelito]

9 minutes ago, TheHessianHistorian said:

From what I've heard from my professor mother and grandfather, many ad-coms understand that sometimes it happens and it's unavoidable. Someone gets to a program, they realize it's not working for them, and they transfer to another program. However, it does raise a red flag that either the student did not do their homework on whether or not the first school was a good "fit" for them, or that the student is hard to get along with, or that the student doesn't finish things that they commit to. That one red flag in and of itself won't sink your ship, but if it's combined with another red flag, like a lackluster LOR, or a SOP that mysteriously dances around the transfer issue, or any sign of negativity or contentiousness in your communication with POIs at the new school, it's not going to bode well for you.

Also, you can have an outside member on your dissertation committee. I wonder if doing that would get you the intellectual growth you desire to receive from the POI outside of your school and might also help make that connection so that your job network can grow. If you can get that person to sit on your dissertation committee, that is... I honestly have no idea how that happens. I'm assuming it's based on who your advisor is.

[gsc]

15 minutes ago, rafaelito said:

Hey, I am a Rutgers admit as well and will be going to the student's weekend. Question - when discussing "women's history" are you all, in this thread, referring to the broader women's and gender history, lgbt history, history of sexuality, etc. or no? 

Hi there, nice to meet you. I'm happy to talk more about Rutgers via PM or email. 

As it happens, Rutgers requires that all students have an outside member on their dissertation committees. It is absolutely an excellent way to grow your job network and your growth as a scholar. It's not impossible, just takes a little bit of planning ahead, and going to a conference or two.

And to your question on women's & gender history, I suspect that OP is referring to African American women's history/US women's history, which are traditional strengths for Rutgers. But Rutgers has a long-standing reputation as a good place to think about women's & gender history in the most broad sense, regardless of geographical area. I want to say that we have 20 professors who work on gender in some form or another. You can check the faculty listings by field to learn more.

[rafaelito]

5 minutes ago, gsc said:

Hi there, nice to meet you. I'm happy to talk more about Rutgers via PM or email. 

As it happens, Rutgers requires that all students have an outside member on their dissertation committees. It is absolutely an excellent way to grow your job network and your growth as a scholar. It's not impossible, just takes a little bit of planning ahead, and going to a conference or two.

And to your question on women's & gender history, I suspect that OP is referring to African American women's history/US women's history, which are traditional strengths for Rutgers. But Rutgers has a long-standing reputation as a good place to think about women's & gender history in the most broad sense, regardless of geographical area. I want to say that we have 20 professors who work on gender in some form or another. You can check the faculty listings by field to learn more.

Thank you for clarifying! Rutgers seems like a great school.  

[ashiepoo72]

2 hours ago, astroid88 said:

How common is this? How do you think other programs view the person switching doctoral programs? 

In the case of programs that are MA/PhD it's more common than programs that admit people straight to the PhD. My program, for example, doesn't have a discrete MA component, everyone is admitted to the PhD but students without an MA have the option to get one along the way. They essentially submit a form after their 2nd year, but it's not required or expected and is more of an honorary thing with the expectation that they will finish the PhD. MA/PhD programs expect some students to go there only to get an MA. If your program is MA/PhD, I'd be upfront with your adviser that you plan to get a terminal MA then apply to PhD programs elsewhere.

Edited to clarify: if you are at a PhD program and NOT an MA/PhD program, leaving after receiving an "honorary" MA and applying elsewhere is generally frowned upon. If you don't have recommendations from your original PhD program, programs to which you apply will view that as a negative, and professors at the original program likely won't be enthusiastic about writing recs for someone who was admitted to their PhD (most likely with funding, so they invested time and resources into you, expecting you'd complete the program) then decided to jump ship. Of course, some people work it out with their original program and successfully transfer, but it's generally not done.

Edited February 21, 2018 by ashiepoo72

[Tnya]

Thanks for all the responses. I am in comparative colonialism. The intellectual fit of the department is there but a bigger stretch than others programs (ie my main region of focus only has one professor in an area studies department-no PhD option-but there are individuals doing comparative colonialism in the history department). The program does have a record for comparative history and said area studies POI’s book was a great help with my MA thesis and is topically relevant, but I anticipate expanding in a different direction.

 

Thanks for all the feedback

[TMP]

7 hours ago, Tnya said:

Thanks for all the responses. I am in comparative colonialism. The intellectual fit of the department is there but a bigger stretch than others programs (ie my main region of focus only has one professor in an area studies department-no PhD option-but there are individuals doing comparative colonialism in the history department). The program does have a record for comparative history and said area studies POI’s book was a great help with my MA thesis and is topically relevant, but I anticipate expanding in a different direction.

 

Thanks for all the feedback

"Intellectual stretch" is always good!  I had two exam committee members who were in British and French empires (respectively), only because I liked them and found them to be good personality fit for such an anxiety-ridden process, even if it meant going with their interests in colonial empires. As it turned out, they helped so much to think about how empires worked even though my location of study is actually in the periphery of these empires.  I am still grateful for their teaching and confident to explore more of the topic of imperialism and decolonization.  It's OKAY to go into a different direction. 

As my adviser says, "If I don't see intellectual growth, then I'll be disappointed."  Professors expect you to experiment with different ideas and directions to continue challenging your intellectual base and it's not unusual for PhD candidates' dissertations to undergo big changes once they are in the field.  It sounds like Rutgers truly isn't a bad place to be.  Go to the campus visit and let us know

[frenchlover]

Rutgers is in a doctoral consortium with Columbia, so you may very well be able to take courses with your POI there. And, well, who knows, you could potentially transfer too. lol