Any Current Duke Students?

[xypathos]

Have a church member that was accepted into a host of M.Div programs and they're leaning toward Duke. They're an Episcopalian though raised UMC, fyi. I know Duke has an "Episcopal House" but I don't know how big it is, how well students feel fostered in their development, etc.

They're particularly interested in Duke's Field Ed program through their rural church program. I assume given Duke's UMC history that these placements are largely at UMC churches?

What's the cultural like at Duke? Said student identifies as a progressive but not in any overt sense. They're white, heterosexual. They've read some articles that Duke Divinity is pretty liberal but it's more of a neo-liberalism style so at times there's been conflict between minorities and whites, though largely with faculty and administration.

Other schools provided better aid but not with the name support that Duke provides and they're in less than desirable locations. Duke's package is good but it will require some loans and/or part-time work.

[sacklunch]

I'm in the PhD program (Religion). I have never been a Div student (nor am I Christian), but because I study ancient Christianity I have taught in the Div school numerous times (as a preceptor/TA). From my perspective, which is admittedly very liberal, the Div school is fairly conservative. There are, of course, quite a few progressive/liberal/whatever-you-wanna-call-em students, but they still usually fit into a certain kind of box. That box is, unsurprisingly, Protestant; it is rare for them to disregard the biblical text (while in liberal Catholic seminaries this isn't so surprising). The Div school is centrally located on campus, really at its heart, so it's a nice place to spend a few years. The culture at the Div school is wildly different from the rest of campus, including Religion/Religious Studies. Like all top schools, Duke's undergraduates are overwhelming studying STEM/+. There are more graduate students at Duke than undergrads, so this helps even things out. Again, from an outsiders perspective, the Div school is viewed by the other humanities graduate students as a relic of the past, something that should not exist at a top school, but only does because of old, southern traditions (this is not the case for most of the PhD students in Religion that Div students would interact with; the vast majority of Religion PhD students studying Christianity have divinity degrees or are practicing Christians). That said, the Div school is huge and the students rarely seem to leave the Div bubble.

As for the "House," you should contact the Episcopal House and just reach out to current students. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by sacklunch

[Rabbit Run]

I'm not a student at Duke, but its worth noting the Anglican/Episcopal House will be headed up by Christopher Beeley (formerly of Yale Divinity) beginning in the Fall, which is an excellent hire imo. My outside perception of Duke is that it's the most moderate/conservative of the big divinity schools. It seems to be a tense place right now from what I've heard, with a lot of professors leaving and with tension surrounding race and human sexuality. 

[sacklunch]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Run said:

I'm not a student at Duke, but its worth noting the Anglican/Episcopal House will be headed up by Christopher Beeley (formerly of Yale Divinity) beginning in the Fall, which is an excellent hire imo. My outside perception of Duke is that it's the most moderate/conservative of the big divinity schools. It seems to be a tense place right now from what I've heard, with a lot of professors leaving and with tension surrounding race and human sexuality. 

There has been some tension, at least in the Div school. But I don't know how much of it reaches the students. Perhaps I'm shielded from such things because I'm not in the Div school? In any case, I haven't heard anyone mention it more than in passing. Perhaps an actual Div student will chime in here.

[seung]

15 hours ago, sacklunch said:

There has been some tension, at least in the Div school. But I don't know how much of it reaches the students. Perhaps I'm shielded from such things because I'm not in the Div school? In any case, I haven't heard anyone mention it more than in passing. Perhaps an actual Div student will chime in here.

Well, it has reached the students in a very obvious way--the loss of faculty.  Willie Jennings left for Yale a year ago, and now Paul Griffiths is gone. Both huge losses.

[Rabbit Run]

1 hour ago, seung said:

Well, it has reached the students in a very obvious way--the loss of faculty.  Willie Jennings left for Yale a year ago, and now Paul Griffiths is gone. Both huge losses.

...and J Kameron Carter last week. Plus Eboni Marshall Thurman also went to Yale and Reinhard Hütter is leaving (has left?) for CUA.

Heres some articles about Duke. As sacklunch said, would be best to have a Duke student weight in from their perspective

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/05/24/467233031/black-ministry-students-at-duke-say-they-face-unequal-treatment-and-racism

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/03/lgbtqia-duke-divinity-students-protest-treatment-issue-list-of-demands

[sacklunch]

3 hours ago, seung said:

Well, it has reached the students in a very obvious way--the loss of faculty.  Willie Jennings left for Yale a year ago, and now Paul Griffiths is gone. Both huge losses.

Fair enough. But it really depends on a student's particular interests. There are students who never intend on taking these professors' classes; and there are, of course, students with zero theological interest, but must pass through the heavenly gates of divinity school to be competitive in today's doctoral admissions. But you're right that the loss of any faculty member is unfortunate. The rising disinterest regarding the humanities at R1 schools means that many faculty are not being replaced or several positions are consolidated into one.

[sacklunch]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Run said:

...and J Kameron Carter last week. Plus Eboni Marshall Thurman also went to Yale and Reinhard Hütter is leaving (has left?) for CUA.

Heres some articles about Duke. As sacklunch said, would be best to have a Duke student weight in from their perspective

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/05/24/467233031/black-ministry-students-at-duke-say-they-face-unequal-treatment-and-racism

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/03/lgbtqia-duke-divinity-students-protest-treatment-issue-list-of-demands

Until now I wasn't aware of this NPR article. I'm skeptical of how common such an experience is at the Div school. I have never heard of (even a rumor) that students use(d) racial slurs in classrooms. Perhaps I'm simply out of the loop; but generally we as the TAs/preceptors hear the juicy stuff, certainly more than the professors (we have a strange relationship with the Div students, which is much less formal than the professor/student relationship). In fact, my experience has been sort of the opposite. I have taught/led discussions with, at this point, hundreds of Div students and I can honestly say I have never heard any student shame/insult another student because of their race or gender (actually I don't think I have heard any of them shame/insult another student on any issue). Also, all Div TAs/preceptors are required to attend a day long training each year, which addresses specifically gender and racial bias (in addition there are workshops on these issues during the year if one is so inclined) and some of the Div professors require that we ask students on the first day of class to clarify their racial/gender context so we (and the other students in the class) can be sensitive to any potential issues. So at least one of the demands on the second article is already met. I have heard that some of the recent faculty loses are related to such "liberalizing" in the Div school (as in the faculty wanted a more conservative environment), though I have no doubt that some of the loses stem from the environment not being liberal enough! (I, for one, would welcome a much more liberal environment). 

[Boolakanaka]

Hmmmn, I’m at once skeptical and dubious about non-students of color commenting on the legitimacy and/or the frequency of such events for students of color. One of my main reservations about attending Duke, was the feedback I received from more than a few students of color—in short, it was not flattering or encouraging, and was told by more than one student to consider attendance elsewhere.

[sacklunch]

On 5/1/2018 at 4:44 PM, Boolakanaka said:

Hmmmn, I’m at once skeptical and dubious about non-students of color commenting on the legitimacy and/or the frequency of such events for students of color. One of my main reservations about attending Duke, was the feedback I received from more than a few students of color—in short, it was not flattering or encouraging, and was told by more than one student to consider attendance elsewhere.

Fair point. Though I would caution you against assuming the color/context of this forum's users. I have no doubt that racist language has been and continues to be used in the Divinity school. I'm merely suggesting that such habits are not common course there and that if such language should arise there I have little hesitation in saying that the vast majority of Divinity students would quickly (and happily) denounce said language/person. I would be curious to hear about such racist behavior at other divinity schools in this country and abroad. 

[xypathos]

Vanderbilt Divinity, while I was there, was laced with pretty extreme microaggressions and some barely veiled racism and homophobia. There are at least three faculty on staff there that are outspoken that LGBT+ students have no right or duty in a pulpit and refuse to step foot in a church where that is welcomed. That said, my VERY limited experience of Duke students tells me that it's progressive in the same way that Vandy is, though arguably a little less so.

[Boolakanaka]

I think the most recent event occurring at Yale, concerning two graduate students are fairly emblematic of the type of micro-aggressions that have become far too frequent and common in higher education. The concerned person appears to have a history of calling law enforcement on people of color and utilizes the threat and institution of a police force as an instrument for her obvious bias against certain groups of people. In some ways, it highlights and provides a real-time example and snapshot of the  environment and circumstances in which people of color have to endure, even at a place as storied, progressive and erudite as Yale—all together sad. See—https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2018/05/10/yale-responds-after-black-student-reported-for-napping-in-common-room/