James Franco got into Yale's PhD program??

[ANP]

Sorry... I didn't actually watch the video when I posted, and it is pretty annoying. I apologize, I just thought the song was funny.

Cut me a break, folks, we all had our thing in the 90s!

Edited March 31, 2010 by ANP

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

Somebody mentioned he's doing two PhDs - is he pursuing them both at the same institution? Isn't it against academic policy (not to mention all-but-impossible logistically) to pursue two PhDs simultaneously at two different institutions?

And ultimately, if he is getting funding, he CAN'T be pursuing two PhDs at two different institutions, so if that's the case and anyone finds out, raise a stink. Funding is contingent on the university's exclusive right to your brain during the course of your studies - conflict of interests, and so forth. That's why people with fellowships aren't supposed to hold down jobs; in some cases (not all, but some), if it is a particularly prestigious fellowship, and you have a job aside from that, they can revoke it and send you packing.

And he's sending his ASSISTANT to classes for him? WTF? What is the point of the degree, then? And aside from that, how does he expect anyone to take him seriously as an academic? It's his assistant everyone's going to consider the scholar, right? lol

I would love to think he really means it. I'm going to keep on deluding myself that no university would take him just because he's James Franco, and why on earth Yale of all places would so do - unless he donated an endowment or something - is beyond me: after all, Yale is the Alma Mater of some of the single most famous and influential people in history. He's a good actor, but certainly not on the top ten of all time list, or at least not yet.

I'm with y'all - I'd LOVE to see his application and SOP.

His publicist stated to the Yale Daily News that even if he accepts the offer from Yale, he'll still be pursuing an additional degree from elsewhere.

THIS IS BULL. I have nothing against actors pursuing a higher education, but 2 PhDs simultaneously?? WHAT THE F*CK WAS YALE THINKING!!! He won't be able to teach, research or do anything scholarly like everyone else in his cohort.

Also, I hate the idea that just because he's a celeb he gets to break the basic rules of PhD study - THAT is your full time job, and you're not even allowed to work elsewhere part time if you're funded.

And if he's not funded - well, I thought Yale funded ALL entering PhDs. So suddenly you can buy your way in??

[fromeurope]

And he's sending his ASSISTANT to classes for him? WTF? What is the point of the degree, then? And aside from that, how does he expect anyone to take him seriously as an academic? It's his assistant everyone's going to consider the scholar, right? lol

This is the position we all should have applied for!

[spartaca]

I can certainly understand everyone's irritation, but chances are that his admission didn't prevent anyone else's. Most likely he was not offered a funded spot, but will either go for free (like others have mentioned--publicity) or pay his tuition out of pocket. I seriously doubt he went through the same application process as everyone else, will structure his program(s) the way most of us would, or even complete the degree.

I don't want to make groundless assumptions, so I'd be very interested to hear what he has to say about it. What are his motivations? What does he plan to do with the degree? Will he write a dissertation or is he satisfied with going ABD? Does he want a job in academia or does he see an English PhD as helpful in other ways, like if he wants to break into directing and/or screen writing? Was there something he read in his MFA that inspired him to want to study literature and theory more deeply?

But you know what they say about the Ivies... for the average Jane, the hardest part is getting in.

Oh, and for anyone else attending Yale: if he decides to go, I expect to hear some stories

[peppermint.beatnik]

It's highly unlikely he would be funded, or it would be some kind of arrangement where he gives it back to the university.

[poco_puffs]

Us regular folk aren't even allowed to keep a separate part-time job in addition to our fellowship.

Sidenote: Is this the policy at most graduate institutions? No part-time jobs on the side?

[callmelilyb]

Sidenote: Is this the policy at most graduate institutions? No part-time jobs on the side?

This is the case at the institution I'll be attending as well. There was a little caveat statement somewhere on my materials....while I don't think it said outright that I couldn't get an external job, it implied as much. I got the impression that that accepting the funding would require that I spend all of my time on scholarship. I believe for someone who really needs money they usually prefer that you pick up some hours doing research for a professor or something of that nature.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

Sidenote: Is this the policy at most graduate institutions? No part-time jobs on the side?

Pretty much. It's either research, or under-the-table payments for tutoring and stuff. I'm hoping to find a good Hebrew school that wants a Hebrew tutor on Sundays, just for some extra cash But if you have a fellowship / TAship, you're basically owned by the university for the duration...

[GoodGuy]

Imagine! Falling asleep in class! The pity! The shame! Shame on him!

Like none of us have EVER fallen asleep or drifted off in a boring-ass lecture.

But of course not! We're REAL PhD students who'd NEVER do anything like that. Yeah, right. lol.

Only difference is, unlike Franco, we didnt have a pack of photogs lingering around to snap a pic of it.

I do think it's funny that Franco's just doing his thing, and probably not thinking a whit about any of us naysayers out here.

Good luck to the man.

[strokeofmidnight]

I posted about this on a personal journal, and two friends in academia who sort-of know his situation actually defended him. While neither saw his application nor directly had him in class, both actually pretty pretty positive things to say. A colleague of one friend taught his class while he was an undergrad. He was apparently very hard-working and pretty smart. Another friend mentioned that his PhD application was actually solid. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but apparently, it was at least respectable. I don't know whether or not his fame influenced decisions, but at least it looks like he won't be embarrassing Yale while enrolled as one of their students.

Rumor has it that he's an early modernist.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

I posted about this on a personal journal, and two friends in academia who sort-of know his situation actually defended him. While neither saw his application nor directly had him in class, both actually pretty pretty positive things to say. A colleague of one friend taught his class while he was an undergrad. He was apparently very hard-working and pretty smart. Another friend mentioned that his PhD application was actually solid. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but apparently, it was at least respectable. I don't know whether or not his fame influenced decisions, but at least it looks like he won't be embarrassing Yale while enrolled as one of their students.

Rumor has it that he's an early modernist.

Stroke, I would have no problem with the whole thing - except for the preferential treatment issue. The fact that he's planning to pursue a second degree at a second institution, while still making films somewhat belies the "serious student" aspect of the entire thing. I really have nothing against someone pursuing a PhD - I'm mainly pissed that he gets to do things differently because he's famous.

Even Prince Charles left all royal duties while at school and was just a regular student. If someone wishes to pursue a Yale PhD - well then. Take it seriously and pursue a Yale PhD. If us plebs must dedicate ourselves full time to the endeavor, shouldn't everyone?

[Fortschritt]

Imagine! Falling asleep in class! The pity! The shame! Shame on him!

Like none of us have EVER fallen asleep or drifted off in a boring-ass lecture.

But of course not! We're REAL PhD students who'd NEVER do anything like that. Yeah, right. lol.

Only difference is, unlike Franco, we didnt have a pack of photogs lingering around to snap a pic of it.

I do think it's funny that Franco's just doing his thing, and probably not thinking a whit about any of us naysayers out here.

Good luck to the man.

Exactly. To recast this in a slightly different way, none of us are perfect models for what a graduate student should be. There is no such model. Despite the incessant academic careerism of so many prospective graduate students in the humanities (myself included), people should and do pursue graduate study for many reasons. What if he just wants to be able to include PhD on his resume? Or style himself as really really smart? I'm sure that is a motivation, perhaps not the dominant one, for many of us.

[woolfie]

Imagine! Falling asleep in class! The pity! The shame! Shame on him!

Like none of us have EVER fallen asleep or drifted off in a boring-ass lecture.

But of course not! We're REAL PhD students who'd NEVER do anything like that. Yeah, right. lol.

Only difference is, unlike Franco, we didnt have a pack of photogs lingering around to snap a pic of it.

I do think it's funny that Franco's just doing his thing, and probably not thinking a whit about any of us naysayers out here.

Good luck to the man.

I just thought it was a funny picture. I didn't say "look what I've never done."

[ecritdansleau]

Elizabeth Wurtzel made it into Yale Law a few years back. Funny, considering she's published books which detail her personal experiences stealing, doing cocaine, and hiding drugs inside her body during international plane flights! Just because you want to practice law doesn't mean that you must have followed it (at Yale anyway...which is notoriously hardcore selective for JD admission)

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=2972554&page=1

Edited April 4, 2010 by ecritdansleau

[lady_coffee]

This thread is hysterical. You guys just made my day.

Have you heard the latest? "Yale Official Denies Franco's Request to Teach at School." (http://www.contactmu...-school_1155465)

I sort of hope he goes rogue and hosts dramatic lectures on the lawn.

Edited August 23, 2010 by lady_coffee

[Baudrillardist]

No, I actually never fell asleep during a lecture because I cared about what was being discussed and had a sincere desire to learn.

I doubt Franco went through any sort of normal application process, and he has enough money to where if he really wanted to embark on the via contemplativa, he could go buy an island, write, and then create a powerhouse publishing firm to disseminate his foundation shattering thoughts to the rest of the world.

But he wants to go to Yale.

This sounds more like he is currently bored with acting, and gravitated towards a "prestigious" school for some intellectual fornication, since that is probably the furthest thing from his everyday existence, or the most radically different thing a person in his situation could do. Chicks? All the time. Parties? All the time. Fast Cars? All the time. Knowledge? Never. Just following his curiosity--nothing wrong with that--but do you really need to burn $$$ at Yale and Columbia to learn?

Yale should have said no thanks, but I imagine if you look at the population who "gets in" simply on renown and connections, they would have to say that a lot more than they do already :/

[Riotbeard]

got an MA in English from Yale, too.

David Duchovny was the badass star of the x-files thus too good for Yale.

[milestones13]

No, I actually never fell asleep during a lecture because I cared about what was being discussed and had a sincere desire to learn.

I doubt Franco went through any sort of normal application process, and he has enough money to where if he really wanted to embark on the via contemplativa, he could go buy an island, write, and then create a powerhouse publishing firm to disseminate his foundation shattering thoughts to the rest of the world.

But he wants to go to Yale.

This sounds more like he is currently bored with acting, and gravitated towards a "prestigious" school for some intellectual fornication, since that is probably the furthest thing from his everyday existence, or the most radically different thing a person in his situation could do. Chicks? All the time. Parties? All the time. Fast Cars? All the time. Knowledge? Never. Just following his curiosity--nothing wrong with that--but do you really need to burn $$$ at Yale and Columbia to learn?

Yale should have said no thanks, but I imagine if you look at the population who "gets in" simply on renown and connections, they would have to say that a lot more than they do already :/

The strong financial earning years for successful (but not super successful actors) is really short lived compared to other highly successful people in other fields. The tendency is to think of anyone with a recognizable name in showbusiness as having more money than Croesus, but there are a few things to consider: One, large gaps in employment and two, the money swiped off the top of their earnings. Actors do splashy things to keep themselves in the spotlight but they're often not getting paid much for that. They also sometimes do pet projects that make them little money or a cool cameo for a movie or tv that sets the web ablaze for little money. The other things is, the hand in their wallet -- agents, money managers, personal managers, lawyers, pr people, taxes. The reality is that they only bring in 30-40% of what they gross. I am not saying anyone should cry for actors who make 5 million a year, but understand that translates into 2 million after they're pillaged by business people. Compare a 35 year old actor to a 35 year old junior partner at a law firm and it is not hard to see which one is on the way up and one is on the way down, even if at this point they are basically making the same amount after taxes. At 50, most actors are pretty much done, guest-spotting and reality-showing or even soaping back to their roots when they were first trying to break in. Whereas the junior, now senior partner at a law firm, has increased their earning power and can maintain this level of earnings for at least another 15 maybe 20 years, year in year out. No fame and no glamour and public adulation attached -- but then, no years of not getting a pilot picked up and doing lame straight-to-video movies, either. The life of the aging actor is not only fiscally depressing for all those involved (unless you're an outlier, Jack Nicholson say), it's also often empty as well. Projects that are offered really begin to suck any prior pride or vanity from earlier in their career -- this downward swing and attendant unraveling becomes tabloid fodder for the masses. But they can eke out a million here and there, especially if XY fading celeb is willing to parody oneself based on what the masses remember about the one or two hits they may have had. Such a being has morphed into walking, repackaged garbage.

Money managers treat actors like children and for good reason -- actors get used to a style of life they will, in all great probability, not be able to sustain as they move into middle age. Obviously, it is worse for actresses: the vast majority of female screen thesps need to get out of Hollywood by the time they reach 30. Generally, it seems actresses are much savvier than are male actors about the ticking bomb that is their acting career -- perhaps because this ticking coincides with their time-to-start-a-family biological time clock that men lack. Worth noting too: Franco is not a major star (no way an island buying Nicholoas Cage) and it seems he simply is following a career path that is natural to him, the sort of thing that Ethan Hawke might have done 10 years ago (sans Uma and the kids). While there is most likely an ego-trip component to Franco's decision to go to Yale (adding prestige to rank fame), it doesn't seem to be borne out of complete frivolousness but of internal motivation to work on a project, just like anyone else might have. I think if he wanted to prestige of the Yale name alone, why not go to Yale drama school (tied into some other program at Yale, so as to inject interdisciplinary flair) for some histrionic copulation?

Edited August 28, 2010 by milestones13

[Baudrillardist]

The strong financial earning years for successful (but not super successful actors) is really short lived compared to other highly successful people in other fields. The tendency is to think of anyone with a recognizable name in showbusiness as having more money than Croesus, but there are a few things to consider: One, large gaps in employment and two, the money swiped off the top of their earnings. Actors do splashy things to keep themselves in the spotlight but they're often not getting paid much for that. They also sometimes do pet projects that make them little money or a cool cameo for a movie or tv that sets the web ablaze for little money. The other things is, the hand in their wallet -- agents, money managers, personal managers, lawyers, pr people, taxes. The reality is that they only bring in 30-40% of what they gross. I am not saying anyone should cry for actors who make 5 million a year, but understand that translates into 2 million after they're pillaged by business people. Compare a 35 year old actor to a 35 year old junior partner at a law firm and it is not hard to see which one is on the way up and one is on the way down, even if at this point they are basically making the same amount after taxes. At 50, most actors are pretty much done, guest-spotting and reality-showing or even soaping back to their roots when they were first trying to break in. Whereas the junior, now senior partner at a law firm, has increased their earning power and can maintain this level of earnings for at least another 15 maybe 20 years, year in year out. No fame and no glamour and public adulation attached -- but then, no years of not getting a pilot picked up and doing lame straight-to-video movies, either. The life of the aging actor is not only fiscally depressing for all those involved (unless you're an outlier, Jack Nicholson say), it's also often empty as well. Projects that are offered really begin to suck any prior pride or vanity from earlier in their career -- this downward swing and attendant unraveling becomes tabloid fodder for the masses. But they can eke out a million here and there, especially if XY fading celeb is willing to parody oneself based on what the masses remember about the one or two hits they may have had. Such a being has morphed into walking, repackaged garbage.

Money managers treat actors like children and for good reason -- actors get used to a style of life they will, in all great probability, not be able to sustain as they move into middle age. Obviously, it is worse for actresses: the vast majority of female screen thesps need to get out of Hollywood by the time they reach 30. Generally, it seems actresses are much savvier than are male actors about the ticking bomb that is their acting career -- perhaps because this ticking coincides with their time-to-start-a-family biological time clock that men lack. Worth noting too: Franco is not a major star (no way an island buying Nicholoas Cage) and it seems he simply is following a career path that is natural to him, the sort of thing that Ethan Hawke might have done 10 years ago (sans Uma and the kids). While there is most likely an ego-trip component to Franco's decision to go to Yale (adding prestige to rank fame), it doesn't seem to be borne out of complete frivolousness but of internal motivation to work on a project, just like anyone else might have. I think if he wanted to prestige of the Yale name alone, why not go to Yale drama school (tied into some other program at Yale, so as to inject interdisciplinary flair) for some histrionic copulation?

You're right. 2 mils is not nearly enough to live off of, much less to philosophize with. No wonder why Socrates and Nietzsche sucked so much.

Fraco was intellectually screwed unless he could matriculate to a top 5 school with funding, because on top of all those "agents, money managers, personal managers, lawyers, pr people, taxes" he now has to pay assistants to go to classes for him, concoct a dissertation for him, and then write it.

I mean that's going to cost at least 10 latte's per day!

[poco_puffs]

Okay. There is a lot of serious stuff going on in this thread. So I'm going to throw this link in here, because it made me laugh.

There's a paragraph quoted in each of these articles where Franco talks a little on how he goes about his reading and writing for school. The topic is a little NSFW, but came about through a conversation with a reporter about his new movie 127 Hours. So, aside from wondering how he completes movies while completing ANY coursework at all, now we get to know a little more about his personal time.

Slightly off-color, but in the name of art

More purely off-color, but with more commentary on Franco's personality

[Medievalmaniac]

On the other hand, for the sake of argument - I do know a former child actor who is now a medievalist with a tenure-track job. So, it's possible. But then again, this fellow isn't trying to stay in films at the same time.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

On the other hand, for the sake of argument - I do know a former child actor who is now a medievalist with a tenure-track job. So, it's possible. But then again, this fellow isn't trying to stay in films at the same time.

Heh, the guy you're talking about dropped out of Hollywood altogether and devoted himself full time to studying at ONE program. This is hardly the same thing. Especially since Franco is already going around saying how he'll be teaching at Yale already - as a first year (Yale starts TA programs year 2), and is talking about attending another program simultaneously, while still acting in movies (and apparently, jerking off 4-5 times a day, LOL). Busy guy! And not really devoted to academia, I don't think.

[blackshirt]

Ok, I have to defend the guy.

 

 

1. He was great in Howl!

 

2. I just read this article, which somebody posted above. To clear things up a bit, the article says he'll be pursuing a doctorate in English & Film Studies. This doesn't mean he's running off to another program as many of us assumed--since I'm currently applying to the same program, allow me to explain: When you apply to Film Studies at Yale, you have to choose a second department from which you will receive a joint Ph.D. I am applying to Film & Art History, but given his academic background, it makes sense that he'd apply to Film & English. One generally applies through the department one is strongest in, so for him that would be English, once again given his academic background. I'm sure he was accepted because of the freshness and originality of his ideas and/or approach, not simply because he's famous. The adcoms were clearly thinking about the richness of classroom discussion and his potential contributions to the field--they have too much invested in their departments to simply let him in for fame's sake. As for the graduate school itself, they may have been willing to take slightly lower composite GRE scores in exchange for the publicity, but hey--that's the nature of graduate schools everywhere. They have to think about their numbers, their rankings, their fame, etc.

 

3. I've definitely fallen asleep in classes not related to my field. Didn't we all have to fulfill distribution requirements at the beginning of undergrad? I'm pretty sure my Earth & Planetary Science course was the most boring experience I've ever had. Now, it's equally possible that those photos of him were taken during his Milton class, but I've definitely taken some boring film classes before, and I have definitely fallen asleep. Nobody's perfect. And if you're like me--I worked two jobs and ran 2 clubs during undergrad, while also double-majoring--you didn't get a lot of sleep. As a result, boring, soporific lectures tended to induce accidental naptime. I wouldn't judge his ability to pursue graduate study based on these types of occurrences.

 

4. As others have suggested, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's not funded. I also wouldn't be surprised if Yale told him he had to minimize or completely stop his Hollywood work during his studies, just as the rest of us have to stay out of regular jobs. He's probably finished the filming portion of everything he's been working on (Eat Pray Love, 127 Hours, The Iceman, etc.), and now he's putting acting on pause while he does his residency requirements (which I believe are 2-3 years for most programs). I wouldn't be surprised if he fudged the period of dissertation research with a little acting, but since he's paying for his own education, I don't see how it's all that bad--many people spend upwards of 10 years completing their diss, so he wouldn't be alone.

 

5. Even if he doesn't end up producing scholarly papers or teaching somewhere, I don't think this makes him somehow less worthy. With the job market as cutthroat as it is, I don't think we need him as a competitor, anyway. And, as I believe someone else mentioned, not everyone with Ph.D. after their name publishes or teaches all that much, and that's okay.

 

Alrighty, I've said my piece.

[shepardn7]

This might be incredibly naive, but I can't imagine Yale accepting James Franco just because he is James Franco. UCLA or USC maybe, but Yale? Come on. Imagine the AdCom meeting: "OMG OMG I want to be on his thesis committee!" "I LOVED him in Tristan and Isolde!" "Well, I wrote a paper about the construction, deconstruction, and subversion of queer/religious binaries in Milk..."

I can imagine, though, that life must be pretty awesome for people with enough money to hire private tutors for the GRE and GRE Lit, professional editors for their writing sample, etc etc. Oh, the infinite benefits of being wealthy...

I heard that the USC Creative Writing(?) PhD rejected him, actually. I think he got into Utah and some other places (Iowa MFA?). I don't even know, but that's what I heard about USC.

[againstourfaces]

My friend's brother has a theatre/literature class with him currently at Yale--he won't give us any details about what he's like though.

I think Franco is fascinating. And I am sure if he wasn't a good candidate the graduate program wouldn't have accepted him, regardless of his fame. He can lead a successful life without a Ph.D, so unless he *really* had something to offer, I don't see why they'd accept him. I wonder how many rejection letters he got!

Also, I saw a video of him sitting with Marina Abramovic at the MoMA. I am convinced this guy is my dream celebrity. I am sure he is really smart.