ccApplying to Clinical Psychology PhD in Canada - advice wanted!

[alittlestitious]

Hi! 

I'm hoping to get in to an MA/PhD in clinical psychology in Canada, and I could use a little advice from anyone who's applied before or has gotten in! 

A little bit of background, I have a BSc in neuroscience and English (yes weird combo) that I finished in 2015 in Canada. My grades weren't amazing, particularly in my second year, I did quite well in my final year but my GPA when I graduated was still only 3.0. I got into a MSc Health Psychology degree in the UK and got a 2:1 (which is about a B+ final grade). I've been working in research in the UK since my MSc, I've been a research assistant for about three years, I've worked on two major RCTs and am also a trial manager for an international european study. I have three co-authorships (two more being submitting in the fall) and two first authorships in progress (one being peer reviewed now, one manuscript nearly ready to submit) and working on a 3rd first-author paper but that won't be submitted before December as we're still in the middle of the analysis. I’ve presented one poster at a national conference in the UK and I have some teaching experience in the uni I work in now. My GREs have been fine, I think I can do better and will rewrite them before applying again, my subject GREs were 89th percentile so I will probably leave those as is. 

 

I know that my undergrad grades are the biggest thing bringing my application down, but there’s nothing really I can do about that anymore. I’m considering doing a postgrad certificate or diploma in psychology so that I can 1) Improve my overall grades and 2) get courses that I’m missing in psychology that might help my application (even though there was a lot of overlap in my neuroscience degree with the psych courses, I didn’t take social psychology for example). Does that sound like it might help, or will it not matter because it’s not a BSc? 

 

My other option is doing a PhD in the UK on the project I’m currently workining on, but it’s not a clinical degree. I could theoretically do a clinical MA afterwards, but MA psychologists can’t be licensed in certain areas in Canada, and it seems silly to do a PhD in the UK and then another MA/PhD in Canada afterwards. On the other hand, it also seems silly to decline the opportunity to do a PhD in a project I like with no security that I’ll get into a program in Canada later.

 

I really want to do clinical psychology because I love the patient aspect and with my background in health psych I would really like to work in a hospital setting or with people living with chronic illnesses. And from the research I'm doing now, I’ve realized that I'll need to be a clinician to do the research I want to do in the future, not just be supervised by one. 

 

As you can probably tell from this post I am very conflicted and would appreciate any advice or considerations! 

 

Thanks!

[chopper.wife]

I can empathize with how challenging it is to know what the best route is and how to strengthen your CV while economizing your time as much as you can!

With regard to your first question about a postgrad certificate/diploma to improve your grades - I think this is a great idea, especially if you take some courses you don't have. Eventually, you will need to take a social psych class anyways to fulfill the breadth requirements for registering as a psychologist. Maybe look into what courses you may be missing and will need in order to register, and use this time to get them out of the way before you start a grad program as well as boosting your GPA. A BSc doesn't ultimately matter when applying to clinical programs - plenty of people get in with BAs (myself included).

For your second question about doing a PhD in the UK and then coming back to do an additional PhD - this is a challenging decision.I will say that it is exceedingly uncommon in Canada to do a terminal clinical MSc/MA. Most programs are set up with the expectation that you continue on to your PhD after completing your masters. I'm not sure based on your post if you are mostly interested in clinical work or clinical research? Your decision between your PhD in the UK and a clinical psych program should ultimately come down to what you are most interested in doing research-wise. I don't think there is any reason to continue with your PhD in the UK if you ultimately want out of research in the end, since that won't get you doing clinical work. I think it is also unnecessary to do all the research involved in a clinical PhD if all you want to do is practice, since there are other options for working with the populations you want to work with that don't involve (as much) research. That being said, the truth of clinical programs is that most of those who graduate from them end up working in clinical practice and not in research. I think this is a fact that many ignore because of the research intensity during programs.

Taken together, in my opinion, you should consider taking some breadth psych courses you need to register (e.g., social psych, history of psych, etc.) and get your GPA up. This will not be a waste of time, as you will need to take these courses eventually if you want to be a clinical psychologist. Then, apply and see what happens. Your CV is otherwise stellar and I have no doubt someone would want to take you as a student so long as you meet the GPA cutoff. If you go through your first application cycle without success, reassess again what you want to do and go from there. 

[Jay's Brain]

It's been awhile since I've chimed in, but here's some insight since I have colleague who I met here on GradCafe who was in a similar situation as you (Canadian in the UK). Your CV is stellar and you have substantial experience that will make prospective supervisors very interested, particularly if you want to pursue the same line of work/research that you are currently devoting your time on. GPA-wise, you should determine whether your current transcripts meet the cutoffs. For most Canadian schools, we are looking at A- in the last two years. If you did well in your last year of undergrad, you may already meet this cutoff. Admissions with a Masters may also change the way each program determines your eligibility.

Two other questions for you to ponder:

1) Where do you want to practice? Each country has their own judicial system for their psychologists and mental health professionals. You're right that terminal Master clinicians are far and few between in Canada (though there is that current debate about what psychologist refers to, especially in Ontario). If you're Canadian, you may also be thinking about returning home after studying and working abroad. If you're set on clinical practice, completing a program in the UK may not give you the same abilities to practice in Canada and will be a huge time commitment if you choose to return to Canada for a MA/PhD after a more advanced program in the UK. 

2) Will you be able to access the same type of research or line of work in Canada? Are there programs/clinical researchers that you know you would apply to here in Canada? It sounds like you're quite passionate about the area of focus you are in, so you may want to do a little bit of research to see if this is something you can continue pursuing in any of the accredited clinical programs in Canada.

[alittlestitious]

Thank you both for your advice @Jay's Brain and @chopper.wife !!

It feels so frustrating knowing I have the experience and ability to do it, but am being held back because I didn't know what I doing when I started university 8 years ago!  

I've decided to take some classes online from Athabasca - that way they'll be from a Canadian university (with Canadian grading scheme and GPA to minimize confusion) and I can tailor the courses to the prerequisites I need instead of taking another course in statistics/research methods just because its part of the diploma curriculum. I can also work at my own pace and it's cheaper (always a bonus)

It's hard to say no to doing a PhD here in the UK, but I've decided that I want to hold out and apply for clinical, even if it takes a little while longer. I might not be able to do research in exactly the area I am researching now, but I am okay with that and my wider interests are broad enough that I can pick out a few faculty that could align quite well with at most of the programs I'm interested in.

If you have any other advice/considerations, I would love to hear it!

Thanks again!

 

[reindeerland]

I applied and was accepted to clinical in Canada this year with a neuroscience BSc and an MSc underway in a related field (bioethics/neuroscience) but neither of these degrees were purely psychology. I definitely felt similarly about lacking some core psych requirements so I think taking some online courses to fill in those gaps is a fantastic idea! I took the subject GRE in hopes that some schools would recognize that even though I didn't have courses like social psych on my transcripts, I could still score well compared to applicants with psych undergrad degrees. As @chopper.wife said, I'll eventually have to take some additional psych courses to fulfill licensing requirements anyways, so again, I think your plan is really solid. I personally didn't apply to a lot of schools, but those that I was rejected from tended to have more strict undergrad psyc requirements. For me, trying to fill in some of the course gaps would have also been my next course of action. I think my admission into a specifically neurospychology lab was aided by my neuroscience background, and research fit and experience play huge roles in acceptance! Having a psych-related master's, at least at my institution, may also waive your MA thesis requirement in clinical, so you have the potential to save some time there! All the best to you and let me know if you have any specific questions, happy to DM.