Recovering from multiple rejections and preparing for Fall 2021 :|

[Rerun]

Hi everyone,

This is a painful share but I want to believe that I am (not) alone. I am an International student, M.A. Community Psychology and Social Change in the US. GPA 3.95. My GRE score is very low, between 141-144. It was even 139 on my last test in 2019 and writing 3.0-3.5. I was a lecturer in Psychology for 2 years, teaching various classes for undergrad. I have published in a national journal in my country twice, and waiting for 3 more publication from a conference proceeding this year (International Conference held in my country). My research experience so far are mental health service in primary health care (undergraduate), refugee wellbeing (master), both are qualitative. Others are youth peer health program (I developed an intervention in a rural area, 1 year work experience as health advocate), mental health literacy and culture ( I led the systematic review) and ptsd in conflict affected area (I led the research and received a small grant).

In 2018 and 2019 I applied for a Fulbright scholarship in my country and got rejected. I was really sad but try to bounce back and apply for a PhD directly to the school. 2018: Social Intervention NYU, Applied Psych and Prevention Science UMass Lowell, Social Work Boston College, Clinical Psych UMass Boston. 2019: Counseling Psych Northeastern Uni and Sociology Boston Uni. All Rejected (Haven't heard from BU but I saw people getting accepted in the result section.. so yeah). All are in Boston area because my husband is studying here.

I am no longer in my country and cannot work to gain more research experience. I also cannot work in Boston since I am on a dependent visa. I am trying to have a publication this year, building on my previous research work, let's see. My undergrad was from back home in a small uni that is not detected by most application system (not the big uni!). I have no fancy experience working in a lab or with a certain professor's research/project. There are not much or probably almost none of opportunity like that back home and back then. The research resource in my area back home is very limited, third world country issue-lol.

My master research supervisors are very supportive. They keep sending recommendation letters since 2018, plus letters from my research mentor and my undergraduate research supervisor.

Now I am trying to pull myself together and be optimist. I know that I need to put more time for the GRE, for sure.. and try to improve my writing skill. In addition, I probably have to retake IELTS (No resource for Toefl IBT back then), and my score has been average, 6.5.

I am still so confused, am I getting rejected because my GRE is very low? Or my research experience is local and only led by myself? Or unclear research interest? Not sure. I am still recovering from this multiple rejection for 3 years in a row-since the scholarship, trying to believe that I will deserve an admission someday. Also, this year I am *planning* to push for full speed, and put some options out of Boston since my husband will graduate. I am thinking to apply for :

Community Health Education UMass Amherst, Social and Behavioral Science at Harvard and Brown, Global Public Health NYU, Sociomedicine Mailman Columbia, Mental Health John Hopkins, Clinical/Community Psych UMBC, Community Research and Action Vanderbilt, Clinical Community USC, Population Health Science Northeastern Uni, and 1 in Canada : Mc Gill, Mental Health-in the Psychiatry Deparment.

The list is rather ambitious, and probably I look confuse. I want to include Sociology and Health UCSF but there's no funding there. I was thinking of Yale but haven't really learn the research there either.

I am trying to start early and looking for suggestions/support, either about my qualificafion or the program that I am looking to apply. Thanks so much for reading such a long story, any feedback is appreciated.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Rerun

[Psyched Coffee Bean]

Hey chin up, your CV looks (intimidatingly) impressive! This is my first year applying and I  dont have anything secured so Im by no means an expert. I can say that I have learned alot from this experience and this is what I will do different next round.

1. Reach out to potential POIs months before the applications even open to start a dialogue.
2. Work to bring up GRE
3. You have publications and research experience already (but if not these are key)
4.  Make sure the fit is really strong research wise (like what the potential POIs future research directions are)
5. Diversify the schools you apply to (greater number and locations)

This is a learning experience and some people apply 3+ years in a row. But eventually you will end up where you were meant to be.

 

Best wishes fellow doctoral traveler, and may the odds be ever in our favor

[Gatech_ST]

There is no one reason you will get rejected, every university has its own criteria and filtering and their view of how fit is your profile to them and their needs. On the bright side your profile will certainly improve for next season, get the GRE high and hopefully you will get a couple of more publications done.

 

Aside from that, try your best in making sure you tailor your statement of purpose for each university you apply to. Be specific why you want to join the university, what professors interest you and how you believe their work and yours fit together.

 

 

[orangejulius]

Hi there @Rerun

You certainly are not alone in this. In fact, I had a laugh when I read your post because you mentioned the Vanderbilt CRA program. A few weeks ago I thought to myself that I was surely the *only* person that program rejected. This process is equally competitive and stressful and from what I have heard, even more so for international applicants. That being said, you have some great things goes for you, including a strong masters GRE which proves you can do the work. 

I was glad to see this post, as this year I applied to a few of the programs you are considering, so I am happy to provide a little feedback. However, as others have said, I am by no means an expert, but I have learned a bit from my experience. 

Community Health Education UMass Amherst, Social and Behavioral Science at Harvard and Brown, Global Public Health NYU, Sociomedicine Mailman Columbia, Mental Health John 

1. GRE - while some of the programs you listed may not have an "official" cut off, let me tell you there is a strong evidence for an unofficial cut off. For example, until recent years Vanderbilt's cut off was a 314 and above. Though they used to tell people with a GRE below 314 to "improve their score and then apply" (aka don't bother), I still feel this is an unofficial criteria and may be used as a standard for making admission decisions. Other schools with high applicant pools (Harvard, Brown) may use the GRE as a sorting tool (top applicants, second pool of applicants, etc). 

2. There are a few programs you listed that are in schools of public health, coming from a psychology background make sure you have taken both biostatistics (2 semesters if you can, but definitely one) and epidemiology. I also came from a community psych (MS) background and applied to public health programs, I was told to make sure I had those classes completed before I applied and I feel like it was worth the money and time investment. 

3. Research - Are you on the SCRA list serv? If so, there's occasionally information about early career or student practicums with the different subcommittees (like the School intervention or policy committee). The practicum is a volunteer position and can be done remotely. The curriculum often includes with the opportunity to collaborate with a mentor on a project, which depending on your advisor, you can work to present or publish.

It looks like you are open to expanding your search outside of Boston, which I think will be quite helpful. You may also want to look into: Northwestern- Integrated Health Sciences,  Emory - Behavior Science and Health promotion, Georgia State - Community Public Health (MPH + PhD program), University of Toronto - Social Justice studies, UMass Boston - Global Inclusion and Social Development, UMass -  Social Justice Education, and the Washington University in St. Louis public health program has a big social justice and community focus. 

Your dedication to achieve your goal despite the challenges is admirable. I am confident your hard work will be recognized. Best of luck to you! 

[orangejulius]

*That being said, you have some great things going for you, including a strong masters GPA which proves you can do the work. 

[Rerun]

Hey!

Thanks so much. Your advice are applicable and I am also looking forward to work on those steps from now. I agree that it's such a learning process to get in, but hopefully it will make us be more prepared to actually be a PhD student. I also agree on your point that FIT really matters. In some applications, I tried really hard to make it looks- FIT, which may not be very strong. This year I plan to apply for more Uni and diversify the locations. Hopefully.. hopefully.. things will work out, and meant to be- sounds like the right term to describe this application process. 

Thank you again, best wishes! May the force be with us

On 2/12/2020 at 11:47 AM, Psyched Coffee Bean said:

Hey chin up, your CV looks (intimidatingly) impressive! This is my first year applying and I  dont have anything secured so Im by no means an expert. I can say that I have learned alot from this experience and this is what I will do different next round.

1. Reach out to potential POIs months before the applications even open to start a dialogue.
2. Work to bring up GRE
3. You have publications and research experience already (but if not these are key)
4.  Make sure the fit is really strong research wise (like what the potential POIs future research directions are)
5. Diversify the schools you apply to (greater number and locations)

This is a learning experience and some people apply 3+ years in a row. But eventually you will end up where you were meant to be.

 

Best wishes fellow doctoral traveler, and may the odds be ever in our favor

 

[Rerun]

On 2/12/2020 at 10:44 AM, Gatech_ST said:

There is no one reason you will get rejected, every university has its own criteria and filtering and their view of how fit is your profile to them and their needs. On the bright side your profile will certainly improve for next season, get the GRE high and hopefully you will get a couple of more publications done.

 

Aside from that, try your best in making sure you tailor your statement of purpose for each university you apply to. Be specific why you want to join the university, what professors interest you and how you believe their work and yours fit together.

 

 

Hello, thank you for the feedback. In last year's application, i did tailor my statement according to each specific university, but probably it's not the right fit or does not sound strong enough. Right, I am trying to see this as a journey to improve my preparedness in getting into a a PhD program. Hopefully things will work out this year. Thanks

[Rerun]

On 2/13/2020 at 7:59 AM, orangejulius said:

Hi there @Rerun

You certainly are not alone in this. In fact, I had a laugh when I read your post because you mentioned the Vanderbilt CRA program. A few weeks ago I thought to myself that I was surely the *only* person that program rejected. This process is equally competitive and stressful and from what I have heard, even more so for international applicants. That being said, you have some great things goes for you, including a strong masters GRE which proves you can do the work. 

I was glad to see this post, as this year I applied to a few of the programs you are considering, so I am happy to provide a little feedback. However, as others have said, I am by no means an expert, but I have learned a bit from my experience. 

Community Health Education UMass Amherst, Social and Behavioral Science at Harvard and Brown, Global Public Health NYU, Sociomedicine Mailman Columbia, Mental Health John 

1. GRE - while some of the programs you listed may not have an "official" cut off, let me tell you there is a strong evidence for an unofficial cut off. For example, until recent years Vanderbilt's cut off was a 314 and above. Though they used to tell people with a GRE below 314 to "improve their score and then apply" (aka don't bother), I still feel this is an unofficial criteria and may be used as a standard for making admission decisions. Other schools with high applicant pools (Harvard, Brown) may use the GRE as a sorting tool (top applicants, second pool of applicants, etc). 

2. There are a few programs you listed that are in schools of public health, coming from a psychology background make sure you have taken both biostatistics (2 semesters if you can, but definitely one) and epidemiology. I also came from a community psych (MS) background and applied to public health programs, I was told to make sure I had those classes completed before I applied and I feel like it was worth the money and time investment. 

3. Research - Are you on the SCRA list serv? If so, there's occasionally information about early career or student practicums with the different subcommittees (like the School intervention or policy committee). The practicum is a volunteer position and can be done remotely. The curriculum often includes with the opportunity to collaborate with a mentor on a project, which depending on your advisor, you can work to present or publish.

It looks like you are open to expanding your search outside of Boston, which I think will be quite helpful. You may also want to look into: Northwestern- Integrated Health Sciences,  Emory - Behavior Science and Health promotion, Georgia State - Community Public Health (MPH + PhD program), University of Toronto - Social Justice studies, UMass Boston - Global Inclusion and Social Development, UMass -  Social Justice Education, and the Washington University in St. Louis public health program has a big social justice and community focus. 

Your dedication to achieve your goal despite the challenges is admirable. I am confident your hard work will be recognized. Best of luck to you! 

Hello fellow Comm Psych graduate, thanks so much for writing such a long response to my post. It really means a lot to hear from someone with the same background since it's a rare field. Your answers gave me many new perspective in considering my strategies for the next round of application. 

1. Yes, I saw the score on the website. My supervisor advice me to apply tp the CRA Vanderbilt because an alumni from my program got in before, so probably my supervisor is referring to the probability of alumni track record. I am not sure if that is necessarily true, but thanks for sharing your perspective on GRE. I realize that I really need to at least pass the 50th percentile.

2. I also learn about this requirement, when looking into Harvard. I have taken Biostatistics during undergrad, but not sure if that would work. I was considering to take online courses in either Epidemiology or Biostatistics, which is what I can afford. But it may not be equal to actually take an in class course.

3. Yes I am in the list serv, and most of the time I really follow on what's going on. I didn't realize regarding the opportunity. Since you mention it, I have been looking into it and see if there are some possibilities that I want to explore, including from past emails.

Thank you for mentioning other programs. I actually went to the UMass Boston Global Inclusion and Social Development department, but not sure if I want to be there. I am really interested for the one in Georgia State, which look like something I want to do. Thank you for being so supportive. I am so glad to read your post, it gives me the recovery that I need. Best wishes and good luck for you too!

[Gatech_ST]

1 hour ago, Rerun said:

Hello, thank you for the feedback. In last year's application, i did tailor my statement according to each specific university, but probably it's not the right fit or does not sound strong enough. Right, I am trying to see this as a journey to improve my preparedness in getting into a a PhD program. Hopefully things will work out this year. Thanks

It is really an exciting time ahead, you already know what you want to do and you have a year to improve your profile for a better chance. One thing I would like to add is that since you have a long time until the next season, you can actually dig deeper into your search and do a literature review.

 

What papers do you like? look it up and see what works done to expand it (e.g. see the paper that cited that paper). Instead if you like one lab's work look at their publication and see how it is now. The more you read recent related paper, some names will become more familiar to you, note these name down and look up their school and possibly apply there. You will be surprised that many of the exciting work is not necessarily in the "top x" school that everyone is aiming for simply for the name.

 

Wish you the best of luck!

[Rerun]

On 2/21/2020 at 5:00 PM, Gatech_ST said:

It is really an exciting time ahead, you already know what you want to do and you have a year to improve your profile for a better chance. One thing I would like to add is that since you have a long time until the next season, you can actually dig deeper into your search and do a literature review.

 

What papers do you like? look it up and see what works done to expand it (e.g. see the paper that cited that paper). Instead if you like one lab's work look at their publication and see how it is now. The more you read recent related paper, some names will become more familiar to you, note these name down and look up their school and possibly apply there. You will be surprised that many of the exciting work is not necessarily in the "top x" school that everyone is aiming for simply for the name.

 

Wish you the best of luck!

Hey, 

Thanks so much! I am seeing it that way too.. the rejections was terrible, but I have the chance to do it all over again and know how to change the game. Actually before my application last year, I did a whole literature review and already have some names. But it just didn't simply work as I wish. In some papers, I did look on who cited them, and there's many ways to keep searching. Thanks for adding on that! I learn my lesson to make my research interest specifically tailored to the department and professor, because previously I can only say what's my aim without clearly considering what the department might be looking at. Last week I emailed a lab that I've been following, after finding out that they are recruiting for new staff. 

It's really tempting to go to the "top x" schools, but I am trying to believe that great mentors/professors are what matters the most for a PhD study. Nevertheless, top schools do have more resources and network. So it's a balance between both, but the research match and fit, matters more.

Thank you again!

[Gatech_ST]

16 hours ago, Rerun said:

Hey, 

Thanks so much! I am seeing it that way too.. the rejections was terrible, but I have the chance to do it all over again and know how to change the game. Actually before my application last year, I did a whole literature review and already have some names. But it just didn't simply work as I wish. In some papers, I did look on who cited them, and there's many ways to keep searching. Thanks for adding on that! I learn my lesson to make my research interest specifically tailored to the department and professor, because previously I can only say what's my aim without clearly considering what the department might be looking at. Last week I emailed a lab that I've been following, after finding out that they are recruiting for new staff. 

It's really tempting to go to the "top x" schools, but I am trying to believe that great mentors/professors are what matters the most for a PhD study. Nevertheless, top schools do have more resources and network. So it's a balance between both, but the research match and fit, matters more.

Thank you again!

Great!

Yeah, generally it is true that top researchers and labs end up being in top schools but perhaps that is not the case on every sub field, or at least their order differs for your specific interest. For example, in computer science the top 5 schools doing research in Game AI, security and privacy and medical imaging are not necessary your top 5-10 schools. NYU has top lab in game AI but it is top 30 ? UCSD and UCSB has amazing security researchers but they are top 20-30 in CS. John Hopkins would be my number 1 school if I intended to do work on medical imaging but it is ranked top 20-30 in CS, and so on.

I recall after doing some literature review and looking at who publishes at top conferences in my sub field, I did my own top 10 ranking schools and applied to many of them.

[Rerun]

On 2/23/2020 at 8:05 PM, Gatech_ST said:

Great!

Yeah, generally it is true that top researchers and labs end up being in top schools but perhaps that is not the case on every sub field, or at least their order differs for your specific interest. For example, in computer science the top 5 schools doing research in Game AI, security and privacy and medical imaging are not necessary your top 5-10 schools. NYU has top lab in game AI but it is top 30 ? UCSD and UCSB has amazing security researchers but they are top 20-30 in CS. John Hopkins would be my number 1 school if I intended to do work on medical imaging but it is ranked top 20-30 in CS, and so on.

I recall after doing some literature review and looking at who publishes at top conferences in my sub field, I did my own top 10 ranking schools and applied to many of them.

Thank you for sharing and elaborating the idea. That is true, we need to customize our own list and not solely relying on the top names. 

Right now I am building my own list too.. not necessarily the big top schools, but the ones that I see would fit my research interest and are the main players in the field. I will check on the researchers who publish in the top conference and I guess that would be give more ideas. Good to have a perspective Thanks again.