I don't know if I can do this anymore. The waiting is too much for me

[Elang89]

So I applied to the top CS schools in Canada. UBC, McGill, U of T, Waterloo and Alberta. 

McGill and Toronto said no. I had the great idea to ask some Waterloo students whether it was likely that I'd been rejected. One of them behaved like a complete ass and said they'd probably said no already but haven't told me. I think he did it on purpose, he just seemed to want to make me suffer. 

This is going to be very long and I'm sorry that I'm unraveling here, but I don't know what else to do. 

So I just feel awful, more awful than I've ever felt in a long time. I feel like this was over before it even started. I mean I keep second guessing myself. Did I aim too high? Did I screw myself irreparably during undergrad? I had an 86 out of a 100% as my final grade. I tried everything I could, everything to get a 90+ grade. I couldn't do it. I never failed a single class but I couldn't get that grade. If only I could have had those 4 points I would have graduated with honors. 

I took the GRE three times, because Waterloo was my main choice and they ask for it for internationals and despite having good math skills I could never get more than 149 in quant. I spent upwards of $2000 paying for that test, in garbage prep materials, worthless practice tests and more retakes than I feel I needed. I spent most of last year studying for it and it wasn't enough. I didn't even move a point in math, the first time I took it was the same as the last time I took it, a 149.

I sent what I believed where stellar recommendations. One of them is a very successful PhD professor, another the former director of education at my country who has  PhD in economics and the last one another PhD

I've spent the past hour regretting the last 15 years of my life. I was bullied pretty badly in school, and it affected my grades, my love for mathematics and my chances for leaving. This left a long lasting effect on how I view my country. I don't like my country leaving for school was a way to get out. I wish I had done it undergrad instead of now, I could have left long ago. I live in the third world, but I was born into a prominent family, I had a first world education and I could have gone elsewhere, having been belittled for my intelligence made me squander it. I could have done so much more, I could have applied to MIT and Stanford. If only things had been different. If only I had never let the bullying get to me. 

And now that I try to get out I feel as if I'm too late. I'm 26, if I wait another year I'll be 27 and I'll likely get out being nearly 30. I feel like every past mistake came back to haunt me and deny me the chance of doing what I want to do. 

I've never felt death wishes before, but this time I found myself wanting my life to be over. I feel like all my past mistakes have come back to chase me and like they will always be there to stop me from achieving my goals. 

I know this is overly exaggerated but it is how I feel. This is bigger than grad school and I am aware that my issues go far beyond that. I go to therapy, but nothing anyone has said to me today has calmed me down. I've tried talking to my sister, my therapist, my mother, random strangers on the internet, etc. Nothing has been able to calm me down. I can't even sleep now. 

I'm sorry for this long rant, but I don't know what else to do. 

 

[Ignatius]

I recommend starting to see a therapist/counselor regularly. 

Getting into a Ph.D. program in CS is hard and not getting into one doesn't reflect the value of your life. There might be a silver lining to your situation. 

[Elang89]

I already go to a therapist. I didn't apply for a PhD, I applied for a master's degree. 

[Phoenix88]

Are you going for a MS with research? (Not all of them are.)

Research is very frustrating, and may negatively impact your mental state as well. Imposter syndrome really already hurts those with low self-esteem. (I'm speaking as a person who knows this firsthand.) If you are going down this path, I'd recommend either waiting until your mental state is in a better place to start the research, or waiting until it is there to start the program. 

I know that it feels like you have to progress right now with your career goals, but if nothing is helping you in the moment, maybe you should take some time working on projects that excite you, rather than pushing yourself back into school. Fortunately, you are in a major where you can easily work on projects at home, and in doing that, you can FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF. I know you also mentioned the age, and that is a pressure, yes. But after you hit 30, you still have easily 50 years of life or more left, and you want to live those in a productive, happy way, rather than in a stressed way, always hitting goals due to the pressure you put on yourself. 

Like I said, you can still start the program (and just wait to start a research project for a few months) if you think it is best for you, but it may be a blessing in disguise if you are not able to start this year. You can travel (as you said you are from a wealthy family), explore the world, learn about yourself and work on projects that excite you! 

And if, after reading this, you think this information is all irrelevant, feel free to disregard it. But I thought it might be helpful, and I hope it is. 

[Elang89]

1 hour ago, Phoenix88 said:

Are you going for a MS with research? (Not all of them are.)

Research is very frustrating, and may negatively impact your mental state as well. Imposter syndrome really already hurts those with low self-esteem. (I'm speaking as a person who knows this firsthand.) If you are going down this path, I'd recommend either waiting until your mental state is in a better place to start the research, or waiting until it is there to start the program. 

I know that it feels like you have to progress right now with your career goals, but if nothing is helping you in the moment, maybe you should take some time working on projects that excite you, rather than pushing yourself back into school. Fortunately, you are in a major where you can easily work on projects at home, and in doing that, you can FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF. I know you also mentioned the age, and that is a pressure, yes. But after you hit 30, you still have easily 50 years of life or more left, and you want to live those in a productive, happy way, rather than in a stressed way, always hitting goals due to the pressure you put on yourself. 

Like I said, you can still start the program (and just wait to start a research project for a few months) if you think it is best for you, but it may be a blessing in disguise if you are not able to start this year. You can travel (as you said you are from a wealthy family), explore the world, learn about yourself and work on projects that excite you! 

And if, after reading this, you think this information is all irrelevant, feel free to disregard it. But I thought it might be helpful, and I hope it is. 

Yes, MS with research. However I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't have just gone for a course based masters. Ultimate goal is to leave my country and to run a business. I just don't feel like I can do those things in the third world, there aren't enough opportunities here for that and the high tech I'm used to doesn't exist here. The things I know, I know them because I spend a lot of my free time learning. I'm not interested in a PhD or in a career in Academia. That had never been something I cared for. I applied for Ms with thesis because I believed it was the best way for me to learn deeply about what interests me, which is Applied Mathematics, in particular with finance. 

Honestly, I don't know what is happening to me. This is the first time in a long time I've had a breakdown like this. I thought this couldn't happen anymore. 

To be frank it isn't even over yet. I'm still waiting for 3 responses. 

I don't know why, but when U of T said no, something broke inside of me. 

I feel better than now, but I tried really hard. I've been learning math, french and finance all on my own after I finished up with the GRE. I decided I was going to learn math with or without grad school. 

Still it feels awful. Maybe after I go to therapy at night I will feel better. It's not the fact that they're saying no that hurts me, it's that I'm reliving my bad start with undergrad and all the bad stuff I went through when I transitioned from school to college.

Anyway thanks for the advice, I will try to calm myself down today. If I don't get in now, I think I might try again in two years. I really don't like the idea of being 28 at that time, but at the very least I'll have a stronger profile and more job experience. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Elang89

[Phoenix88]

@Elang89 I really am sorry that you're having such a rough time. 

I do love your motivations for grad school though! Those definitely reflect my own.  We need more passionate people in the world like ourselves! Those motivations are good reasons to go for research, but it is ultimately a decision of where you are right now mentally. Mental breakdowns are not a great sign in general, but in the face of so much rejection, I think your reaction are reasonable, and even expected. So please don't be too hard on yourself. 

I'm glad you're self-teaching so many subjects as well. It's good to get your mind off of the rougher things. Therapy should help though, and perhaps time will as well. 

If you want, you are always welcome to chat with me privately. Best of luck on everything in the future, and stay well there!

[2020PhD]

I am not sure where you are coming from but a CS student with %85 success in their classes MUST be able to score at least 160 in quant section of GRE. Quant section literally evaluates basic math skills, nothing advanced. CS departments have a lot of math courses in their program, I am surprised you could actually pass those courses. It makes no sense. I have friends who studied history and gender studies etc that score 155+ in GRE. And they had their last math related courses in HIGH SCHOOL. 

Also, 

15 hours ago, Elang89 said:

having been belittled for my intelligence made me squander

You have waaay too much confidence, mate. I am not saying it's a bad thing but a CS graduate who can't even score 150 in quant should not say they are too intelligent. Come down to earth!

If you do not want to go for academia, try lesser ranked universities in Canada. UofT and UBC are way too ambitious for people with low stats. 

KNOW YOURSELF. If not, ask for help but be honest and objective. Question why you can't succeed, is it something you caused or is it not in your hands? I know I sound harsh but someone has to. You can not continue believing you are the most intelligent person when you are not. This causes more disappointments and pain. 

Stay safe and healthy.

[AlphacentauriC]

I think that you should look at things in perspective. No one event, no-matter how big, can determine the trajectory of your life forever. What this means is that, success or achieving your dreams wholly depends on a series of small steps, small victories. So, your GPA, your GRE score, those few bad grades from those three/five professors, will not ruin your life. Nor does getting rejected from the top ten schools. The important question to ask yourself is: What are the next steps needed to achieve your dream? Focus on standing up after your fall, not on wallowing on the rejections. Good luck. 

[Elang89]

1 hour ago, 2020PhD said:

I am not sure where you are coming from but a CS student with %85 success in their classes MUST be able to score at least 160 in quant section of GRE. Quant section literally evaluates basic math skills, nothing advanced. CS departments have a lot of math courses in their program, I am surprised you could actually pass those courses. It makes no sense. I have friends who studied history and gender studies etc that score 155+ in GRE. And they had their last math related courses in HIGH SCHOOL. 

Also, 

You have waaay too much confidence, mate. I am not saying it's a bad thing but a CS graduate who can't even score 150 in quant should not say they are too intelligent. Come down to earth!

If you do not want to go for academia, try lesser ranked universities in Canada. UofT and UBC are way too ambitious for people with low stats. 

KNOW YOURSELF. If not, ask for help but be honest and objective. Question why you can't succeed, is it something you caused or is it not in your hands? I know I sound harsh but someone has to. You can not continue believing you are the most intelligent person when you are not. This causes more disappointments and pain. 

Stay safe and healthy.

Dude, that test doesn't even measure your math skills. There are so many things out there that can cause a bad grade with that test that I'd have a hard time counting them all. 

I never had a hard time with Calculus, Stats, Probability or Linear Algebra. Besides, only Waterloo and McGill ask for the GRE. 

I went for the best because I knew I could make it. I contacted the three universities that haven't answered. They told me I was still being considered and that they hadn't made a decision. 

A bad grade on some for-profit test that only measures your ability to take said test was no reason to refrain myself from applying. 

If that means that I don't get in, so be it. Nonetheless I had to try. If it doesn't work out and I'm still not there yet, then we'll see. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Elang89

[Whitley]

Dude, I can definitely feel you.

Listen, I'll give you some suggestions.

FIRST OF ALL! TAKE A BREAK! I know you already saw a therapist, but that's not enough. Go for a vacation. I know the pandemic makes a vacation pretty impossible at this very moment, but at least stay with your family or people you trust, tell them your dilemma and let them watch you and make sure you don't do anything stupid. Have a deep breath every morning you wake up and refresh yourself. Do sports! Sports can physically inspire you and bring back your confidence.

Second. Allow yourself to have more choices in life. Go for a graduate program is not the only choice, or maybe it is not even the best choice for most people. Try to switch your life plan to something else. Go get a job or you can start your business. All business giants start from small businesses.

Third. Dude, please stop complaining. I have a friend who lost his mother when he was 11 and his dad left him and went to another country and had a new wife, even though he told me his dad always loves him. He didn't see his father for almost 20 years. But he never complains. He is a very positive guy and makes a lot of good friends. Your life heavily depends on your attitude. Sorry to say that, but I can see many negatives in your words. To be honest, a negative guy won't really survive a graduate program at a top ranked university. A research oriented program usually requires candidates to dedicate all their time and efforts into academic activities, and you will feel a lot of stress. If you keep questioning yourself and the people around you, you will feel even more depressed. 

Four, if you really want to do a master's or phd program. I will suggest you apply for more programs. Don't limit yourself in Canada. Try  Europe or any English speaking countries. You will have more options and opportunities. BTW, you are still on the waitlist of three schools. you still go chances to enroll this year. Don't give up!

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Whitley

[cleareyes]

I echo a lot of the advice given above, but want to reemphasize @2020PhD's point about your GRE quant scores not being higher for someone who is good at math. I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it. The GRE quant section should be very basic for someone who is mathematically inclined. Doing well on it does not mean you are guaranteed admissions in graduate level math or math-adjacent programs, but doing poorly on is likely to be a red flag to adcomms.

I sincerely hope you get into at least one of your remaining programs. On the off chance you didn't, this may be a good opportunity for you to take a break and rethink your goals. Going to graduate school this year may not be the best idea with the pandemic going on anyway. If it turns out you want to reapply in the future, there may be other aspects of your application that could be improved, like:

21 hours ago, Elang89 said:

I sent what I believed where stellar recommendations. One of them is a very successful PhD professor, another the former director of education at my country who has  PhD in economics and the last one another PhD

You mention the success of these professors but not their relationship to you. Do they know you well enough to write about your work? What is the relevance of having the former director of education in your country write a reference for you?

Good luck mate.

[Elang89]

7 hours ago, cleareyes said:

I echo a lot of the advice given above, but want to reemphasize @2020PhD's point about your GRE quant scores not being higher for someone who is good at math. I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it. The GRE quant section should be very basic for someone who is mathematically inclined. Doing well on it does not mean you are guaranteed admissions in graduate level math or math-adjacent programs, but doing poorly on is likely to be a red flag to adcomms.

I sincerely hope you get into at least one of your remaining programs. On the off chance you didn't, this may be a good opportunity for you to take a break and rethink your goals. Going to graduate school this year may not be the best idea with the pandemic going on anyway. If it turns out you want to reapply in the future, there may be other aspects of your application that could be improved, like:

You mention the success of these professors but not their relationship to you. Do they know you well enough to write about your work? What is the relevance of having the former director of education in your country write a reference for you?

Good luck mate.

They all know me very well. I was a TA for one and I took several classes with the other. 

I would not have asked them otherwise. 

[2020PhD]

16 hours ago, Elang89 said:

Dude, that test doesn't even measure your math skills. There are so many things out there that can cause a bad grade with that test that I'd have a hard time counting them all. 

I never had a hard time with Calculus, Stats, Probability or Linear Algebra. Besides, only Waterloo and McGill ask for the GRE. 

I went for the best because I knew I could make it. I contacted the three universities that haven't answered. They told me I was still being considered and that they hadn't made a decision. 

A bad grade on some for-profit test that only measures your ability to take said test was no reason to refrain myself from applying. 

If that means that I don't get in, so be it. Nonetheless I had to try. If it doesn't work out and I'm still not there yet, then we'll see. 

Mate, you ask for help. When I objectively tell you how grad school system works, you object to that (as if you know how things go). You apparently do not. Because if you do, then you would not be like I got 149 on Quant GRE but hey, I'm also super intelligent, I pass my courses on Calculus etc. It just does not make sense. I don't know what kind of university you attended but you have way too much self confidence for a person with low stats. You hurt yourself more than people would hurt you. 

GRE Quant is an EASY math test. It tests your BASIC math skills in which you apparently do not do well. You have to accept the facts and work towards it rather than finding excuses and believing that you are the most intelligent so it cannot be your fault but ETS'. 

As I said before, take people's suggestions because you will keep hurting yourself with so much self-confidence and not so much potential.

[Long N]

As hard as it sounds, I need to agree with @2020PhD. The GRE should not be a problem for you, if you have successfully completed a STEM undergrad major, however you might have a problem with the test format, the problem wording, blackouts, panic during exams etc.

Truth is, that a score of 149 nevertheless puts you roughly in the lower third of all test takers, including Non-STEM majors and the GRE is, in my opinion, indeed a legit method to quantify your likelihood to succeed in grad-school-level math.

Anyways I would also second all the other former posters, including yourself. Though tests and grades are at the very least an indicator of potential, still they do not rule out the possibility that you're nevertheless capable of the quality that is being tested or graded. Which is also why you should never define yourself based on these measurements. I am sure, you have other qualities which are even way more important in defining what truly matters to you and who you really are as a human, not a computer scientists, student, software engineer, child-of-a-prominent-family or whatever.

Think about why you want to start a business, why you want to pursue grad studies, why you even care about all the things you said.

Because you feel like you have to? To prove something to someone? To earn money and spend it, whilst still being haunted by your past? Whatever potential state of life you might seek in the future, I can guarantee you it will not take away the pain you described.

The grad school application process and career decision making can be a harsh time for all of us. Based on my feeling, I would consider your problem to be of psychological nature rather than being due to external circumstances. I understand that being bullied, growing up in a bad environment (from own experience), etc. can have a huge toll on you, but if you really start regretting more than half of your life, there is nothing wrong with the decisions you made or with stuff that happened to you. The root of your pain must be somewhere in your head or way of thinking. The expectations you set yourself, the inflexibility of your own idea of a successful career or the constant self-doubt paired with regrets about the unchangeable.

Still I am not an expert on this, this is just my opinion and you should definitely consult your therapist and listen to him as he listens to you.

While this might sound like a very unsatisfying answer, I hope you can see the chance in that assumption. You will never ever ever ever be able to change things that happened in the past, regretting will not do anything but harm. However if you consult your therapist and accept that some things need to be changed regarding your state of mind, then you can finally move on and built towards something great. If the assumption is correct and that is exactly what is hindering you from pursuing your dreams, and not everything you have listed, then getting rid of that might just be the liberating spark that you needed, to unlock your true potential. And it is absolutely never too late for that. 

Thus, taking a timeout and tapping into your inner self seems more reasonable as of now than chasing something concrete outside in the world. I am not hoping for you to get admitted, I am hoping for you to get a more positive perspective about yourself and optimistic outlook on life, and if you then still think that CS grad school is the way to go, I will also hope that you will be able to pursue that.

Whatever your admission outcome will be, whatever your next step in life might be, stay strong and stay safe. Take care of yourself. All the best!

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Long N