HKS or Yale Jackson?

[IR_MPP]

Hey all! It's come down to the wire, and I'm deciding between Harvard Kennedy School and Yale Jackson. I'm pretty fortunate to have received aid/fellowships from both schools that covers the cost of my tuition, though it makes it hard to quickly rule out one or the other. My interests and experience are in national security and technology policy, so HKS is really attractive (Boston tech scene, Belfer Center, etc), and I want to work on these issues at a think tank or in government once I graduate. HKS is also really well established, and has some pretty killer institutional prestige and connections. That said, at Jackson the community seems really tight and intellectual (I like the small size of the program!), they've brought some great fellows into their orbit, and the program seems to be becoming a powerhouse in its own right. 

Does anyone have a hot take on which one of these programs they would pick, finances being equal? I think the most important things to me are 1) Research/Publication Opportunities, 2) Meaningful Access to Professors and Resident Fellows, and 3) Alumni Network and "Name-Brand" Recognition, and 4) Community.

[Mppirgradschool]

Incredible offers, both are excellent! I think this will ultimately go down to fit and deferral policy flexibility...

I will hit each point (based on your interests):

1) Yale might have a slight edge, as it has a stronger academic focus. You'll know how accessible Belfer, and other research centers, are to students for publication purposes, but the people that I know involved with them are all fellows/outside researchers.

2) Jackson only has about 30 people per class, 8X smaller than the MPP at HKS, so I'll give it the nod here as well, just based on numbers. At HKS, you will also be competing for access to professors and fellows with more senior students in the MPA/ID, MPA and MC/MPA programs.

3) HKS wins here, based on its longevity and size. Jackson benefits from being integrated with the greater Yale ecosystem, both network and name-brand recognition-wise, though.

4) Community feel is based on preference, but as you prefer smaller, tight-knit environments, I'd give Yale the advantage (in your case).

Both great options, and you can't go wrong. One thing to definitely consider is the deferral policy for each in the case of classes going online, this should be one of the most important components in your decision-making process since funding is equal (if not the most important).

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Mppirgradschool

[IR_MPP]

Thank you so much for your reply (and just in time)! It certainly gave me an extra dose of confidence, and I committed to Yale Jackson. I think that the tight-knit community is a huge plus for me, and I'll also have the flexibility to really shape my program there. This was a huge help!

[GradSchoolGrad]

4 hours ago, IR_MPP said:

Thank you so much for your reply (and just in time)! It certainly gave me an extra dose of confidence, and I committed to Yale Jackson. I think that the tight-knit community is a huge plus for me, and I'll also have the flexibility to really shape my program there. This was a huge help!

I think I have a slightly difference of opinion with @Mppirgradschool... whereas we normally agree on most things... but I guess it is too late now.

Edited May 1, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[IR_MPP]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

I think I have a slightly difference of opinion with @Mppirgradschool... whereas we normally agree on most things... but I guess it is too late now.

Definitely don't let me stifle debate here. I was already leaning Jackson beforehand, but this thread might be useful to someone down the line.

[Mppirgradschool]

An advantage that Jackson has, is that other graduate schools within Yale (Yale SOM, Yale Law School), view it as a true equal. You'll have great chances to network, cross-register and develop your skills as needed. At HKS, other graduate programs at Harvard (HBS, Harvard Law School), look down, albeit slightly, at HKS because not everyone in it views it as a true equal, since it is easier to get into -- and many of its students are eager to break into the same fields as HBS grads, like management consulting. I also think that some incoming HKS students compute the potential of using HBS OCR when accepting their offer heavily, which may create a rift between them and HBS students.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Mppirgradschool

[GradSchoolGrad]

5 hours ago, IR_MPP said:

Definitely don't let me stifle debate here. I was already leaning Jackson beforehand, but this thread might be useful to someone down the line.

So these are my difference/minor disagreements with what @Mppirgradschool mentioned about the analysis of Jackson vs. HKS.

I just think that there is one major factor that is missing in the analysis is what I call resource access. By being in HKS, you have access to:

1. The larger broader range of Harvard (emphasis on Harvard not just HKS) resources. I always hear about Harvard resources being difficult to get ahold of. That might be true for some of their celebrity professors. However, I have collaborated with Harvard professors academic institutions as non-Harvard student for policy matters and I found them super accessible. Also, the range of resources given how many research institutions, special interest institutions, and etc. are immensely greater than Yale (and make that most other Universities in America). 

2. Leverage to have access to non-Harvard resources. This manifests in the following ways:

A. Consortium with MIT. So if you want to get into tech or international security matters (people forget that MIT has a super strong international security offerings)

B. Consortium with Fletcher (although not that much unique stuff here in my opinion)

C. Research organizations and industry within Boston that can be launching pad for many things. 

D. Extremely strong legacy access to many organization and institutions in Washington DC

Another matter of interest is career flexibility

1. HKS students have arguably the widest range of job placements, from traditional MPP roles, to more fringe roles. I have seen HKS people be in start ups and play in tech companies in capacities I haven't seen other MPP play in. 

As for HBS/HKS/HLS relations.

Yes, of the three HKS has the least competitive admissions, and probably has the least prestige and money. HOWEVER... there are historical and robust relationships with all three. My sister was an HKS student who played ball with her classmates in HBS, no problem. 

The Shortcomings with Yale Jackson

1. Your access to resources are simply less --> Period. Outside of Yale, there isn't that much institutions and organizations that can actively support you in New Haven. Yale simply has a smaller footprint that Harvard, so the school itself doesn't really comparatively compensate for the lack options on location.

2. SOM is much smaller than HBS --> student population wise, so that means less collaboration opportunities. Now collaboration does happen. One of my SOM friends runs an education conference, but total range of people you can collaborate with is smaller period. My SOM friends always joke that they forget there is a world outside of MBA except for the occasions when they occasionally go to the all-grad school events. One can say HBS might look down on HKS, but there is an extensive established relationship and collective activities. 

3. 30 is just way too small for comfort.

With less people there are less people per policy/IR field area of interest. That means it is more difficult to collaborations with. For example, if I was a Latin America person, I might find only 3 or so (out of a class of 30) that I could potentially collaborate with.  

Also, with less numbers there are less people per career interest type to concentrate for recruiting purposes. Do you think an organization will come to Yale (and travel to New Haven) when there are only 1 to 3 people interested in a certain job opportunity - nope. Now Yale does this smart thing whereby Jackson also caters to undergrad and have historical experience with undergrads. Their experience with grads however, I believe dates back to 2013ish. As a school, they only back to 2019. This is compared to HKS with extensive experience supporting their graduate students with career opportunities and enough numbers to make themselves seem relevant to organizations interested to fill jobs.

Edited May 1, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[Mppirgradschool]

2 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

So these are my difference/minor disagreements with what @Mppirgradschool mentioned about the analysis of Jackson vs. HKS.

I just think that there is one major factor that is missing in the analysis is what I call resource access. By being in HKS, you have access to:

1. The larger broader range of Harvard (emphasis on Harvard not just HKS) resources. I always hear about Harvard resources being difficult to get ahold of. That might be true for some of their celebrity professors. However, I have collaborated with Harvard professors academic institutions as non-Harvard student for policy matters and I found them super accessible. Also, the range of resources given how many research institutions, special interest institutions, and etc. are immensely greater than Yale (and make that most other Universities in America). 

2. Leverage to have access to non-Harvard resources. This manifests in the following ways:

A. Consortium with MIT. So if you want to get into tech or international security matters (people forget that MIT has a super strong international security offerings)

B. Consortium with Fletcher (although not that much unique stuff here in my opinion)

C. Research organizations and industry within Boston that can be launching pad for many things. 

D. Extremely strong legacy access to many organization and institutions in Washington DC

Another matter of interest is career flexibility

1. HKS students have arguably the widest range of job placements, from traditional MPP roles, to more fringe roles. I have seen HKS people be in start ups and play in tech companies in capacities I haven't seen other MPP play in. 

As for HBS/HKS/HLS relations.

Yes, of the three HKS has the least competitive admissions, and probably has the least prestige and money. HOWEVER... there are historical and robust relationships with all three. My sister was an HKS student who played ball with her classmates in HBS, no problem. 

The Shortcomings with Yale Jackson

1. Your access to resources are simply less --> Period. Outside of Yale, there isn't that much institutions and organizations that can actively support you in New Haven. Yale simply has a smaller footprint that Harvard, so the school itself doesn't really comparatively compensate for the lack options on location.

2. SOM is much smaller than HBS --> student population wise, so that means less collaboration opportunities. Now collaboration does happen. One of my SOM friends runs an education conference, but total range of people you can collaborate with is smaller period. My SOM friends always joke that they forget there is a world outside of MBA except for the occasions when they occasionally go to the all-grad school events. One can say HBS might look down on HKS, but there is an extensive established relationship and collective activities. 

3. 30 is just way too small for comfort.

With less people there are less people per policy/IR field area of interest. That means it is more difficult to collaborations with. For example, if I was a Latin America person, I might find only 3 or so (out of a class of 30) that I could potentially collaborate with.  

Also, with less numbers there are less people per career interest type to concentrate for recruiting purposes. Do you think an organization will come to Yale (and travel to New Haven) when there are only 1 to 3 people interested in a certain job opportunity - nope. Now Yale does this smart thing whereby Jackson also caters to undergrad and have historical experience with undergrads. Their experience with grads however, I believe dates back to 2013ish. As a school, they only back to 2019. This is compared to HKS with extensive experience supporting their graduate students with career opportunities and enough numbers to make themselves seem relevant to organizations interested to fill jobs.

Agree with everything you say about the variety of outcomes at HKS, this being a direct result of its size and endurance. I have also met alums doing meaningful work in parts of the U.S. that are extremely unequal, yet not talked about as much (i.e. Appalachia, the Deep South, Tribal Nations etc.). It's definitely the elite domestic policy school in the U.S. -- along with WWS, Berkeley and maybe Harris. For IR, I think the HKS MPA/ID is the best program of its kind, the MPP being much more domestic focused.

Regarding Jackson and Yale SOM, I think these two make an incredible pair as SOM is known as *the*  most socially-minded MBA, which makes both schools very mission-aligned. Think it will be a great partnership moving forward. I think it all comes down to fit and Yale best provides what @IR_MPP is looking for (small size, academic and access to professors/fellows).

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Mppirgradschool

[Boolakanaka]

3 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

So these are my difference/minor disagreements with what @Mppirgradschool mentioned about the analysis of Jackson vs. HKS.

I just think that there is one major factor that is missing in the analysis is what I call resource access. By being in HKS, you have access to:

1. The larger broader range of Harvard (emphasis on Harvard not just HKS) resources. I always hear about Harvard resources being difficult to get ahold of. That might be true for some of their celebrity professors. However, I have collaborated with Harvard professors academic institutions as non-Harvard student for policy matters and I found them super accessible. Also, the range of resources given how many research institutions, special interest institutions, and etc. are immensely greater than Yale (and make that most other Universities in America). 

2. Leverage to have access to non-Harvard resources. This manifests in the following ways:

A. Consortium with MIT. So if you want to get into tech or international security matters (people forget that MIT has a super strong international security offerings)

B. Consortium with Fletcher (although not that much unique stuff here in my opinion)

C. Research organizations and industry within Boston that can be launching pad for many things. 

D. Extremely strong legacy access to many organization and institutions in Washington DC

Another matter of interest is career flexibility

1. HKS students have arguably the widest range of job placements, from traditional MPP roles, to more fringe roles. I have seen HKS people be in start ups and play in tech companies in capacities I haven't seen other MPP play in. 

As for HBS/HKS/HLS relations.

Yes, of the three HKS has the least competitive admissions, and probably has the least prestige and money. HOWEVER... there are historical and robust relationships with all three. My sister was an HKS student who played ball with her classmates in HBS, no problem. 

The Shortcomings with Yale Jackson

1. Your access to resources are simply less --> Period. Outside of Yale, there isn't that much institutions and organizations that can actively support you in New Haven. Yale simply has a smaller footprint that Harvard, so the school itself doesn't really comparatively compensate for the lack options on location.

2. SOM is much smaller than HBS --> student population wise, so that means less collaboration opportunities. Now collaboration does happen. One of my SOM friends runs an education conference, but total range of people you can collaborate with is smaller period. My SOM friends always joke that they forget there is a world outside of MBA except for the occasions when they occasionally go to the all-grad school events. One can say HBS might look down on HKS, but there is an extensive established relationship and collective activities. 

3. 30 is just way too small for comfort.

With less people there are less people per policy/IR field area of interest. That means it is more difficult to collaborations with. For example, if I was a Latin America person, I might find only 3 or so (out of a class of 30) that I could potentially collaborate with.  

Also, with less numbers there are less people per career interest type to concentrate for recruiting purposes. Do you think an organization will come to Yale (and travel to New Haven) when there are only 1 to 3 people interested in a certain job opportunity - nope. Now Yale does this smart thing whereby Jackson also caters to undergrad and have historical experience with undergrads. Their experience with grads however, I believe dates back to 2013ish. As a school, they only back to 2019. This is compared to HKS with extensive experience supporting their graduate students with career opportunities and enough numbers to make themselves seem relevant to organizations interested to fill jobs.

A couple of items:

The total resources of Yale, on a per capita basis, are unmatched—period.

YLS (arguably the top law school in the world.) and SOM are much more aligned to public policy than say a b-degree from Harvard, and in fact, SOM was not an mba program until fairly recently—for much of its existence it was thought of a cradle and incubator for executives to the non-profit world.

Yale is 75-90 minutes to valuable internships in NYC. I know for fact, as I have associations with SOM and YLS that recruitment is never a problem, and that there are much more potential employers that come to campus than students—period.

Smaller cohort classes always results in a more nuanced education, and is the reason why most folks prefer YLS to HLS.

[Dalecooper2021]

Hello!

Reviving this topic because I’m in the same situation. I have received fully funded offers from HKS and Yale Jackson. HKS has always been my dream school, but I’m impressed by Jackson’s program and finding it hard to decline as well. I also think both programs would contribute greatly and differently to the career path I want to take. Does anyone know of someone who has managed to attend both schools (or another policy school) as a joint program?

[wildchartermage]

3 hours ago, Dalecooper2021 said:

Hello!

Reviving this topic because I’m in the same situation. I have received fully funded offers from HKS and Yale Jackson. HKS has always been my dream school, but I’m impressed by Jackson’s program and finding it hard to decline as well. I also think both programs would contribute greatly and differently to the career path I want to take. Does anyone know of someone who has managed to attend both schools (or another policy school) as a joint program?

In the same situation. For full ride for this coming year at HKS. Although I'm on the hook for a third semester at HKS as a concurrent degree seeker, but planning on applying to external scholarships and find other sources of funding. 

I'll love if others can chime in about HKS vs. Yale Jackson, and bonus points if you did HKS/Wharton or HKS/MIT Sloan.