A Question of Names

[UnlikelyGrad]

It won't be an issue for me (I got married so young that everything's in my married name anyway), but it is an issue I've watched with a great amount of interest.

Both of my sisters who are professors kept their maiden name. Of course, they both married men with really long last names--hyphenation would have only been compounding the problem. One of these sisters has children; having a different last name than they hasn't been a problem for her.

In my department, both of the women have taken their husband's name. My advisor married early in her academic career (I think as a grad student), and looking at her CV I see only one pub under her old name.

The other woman is a good model for someone who marries later in life...btw she goes by her middle name, and is a very prolific publisher. If you look at her C.V. this is what you see:

Top of C.V.: MiddleName InitialofMaidenName MarriedName

Top of pubs list: (a.k.a FirstInitial MiddleName MaidenName)

....whole list of pubs as FI MiddleName MaidenName

....transitional time (~5 years) publishing as FI MiddleName MaidenName MarriedName

....pubs of last 8 years or so under the current name on CV

The name change hasn't hurt her professionally! I wonder if it was a pain for her or not though. Not sure I can ask though because, like I said, it's a moot point for me...

[poco_puffs]

Ask your husband to take your name (seriously).

For me, it's a professional consideration and an issue of convenience. For him, it's a matter of family identity and national pride. My hesitation to ask him to change his name is only a little bit influenced by a sense of tradition; it's mostly because he's a lot more attached to his name than I am to mine.

Edit: I can't help but look at what I wrote through a gender lens and ask myself if that is just Western society speaking through me-- that I am less attached to my own name than he is to his own. The truth is, I've NEVER been fond of my own name, or even my initials, and I used to fantasize about changing my name all the time. I still have a completely different pen name if I ever start publishing non-academically. I know I'm not the only person who dislikes their own name: a girl at work still has her heart set on being an actress/model, and she daydreams about new names constantly because her given surname strikes her as so awkward sounding and as something that doesn't match her personality.

Edited May 13, 2010 by poco_puffs

[poco_puffs]

It won't be an issue for me (I got married so young that everything's in my married name anyway), but it is an issue I've watched with a great amount of interest.

Both of my sisters who are professors kept their maiden name. Of course, they both married men with really long last names--hyphenation would have only been compounding the problem. One of these sisters has children; having a different last name than they hasn't been a problem for her.

In my department, both of the women have taken their husband's name. My advisor married early in her academic career (I think as a grad student), and looking at her CV I see only one pub under her old name.

The other woman is a good model for someone who marries later in life...btw she goes by her middle name, and is a very prolific publisher. If you look at her C.V. this is what you see:

Top of C.V.: MiddleName InitialofMaidenName MarriedName

Top of pubs list: (a.k.a FirstInitial MiddleName MaidenName)

....whole list of pubs as FI MiddleName MaidenName

....transitional time (~5 years) publishing as FI MiddleName MaidenName MarriedName

....pubs of last 8 years or so under the current name on CV

The name change hasn't hurt her professionally! I wonder if it was a pain for her or not though. Not sure I can ask though because, like I said, it's a moot point for me...

It's good to know that there is such a variety of options out there that have WORKED for people and aren't just theoretical. Especially in the last case, it's heartening that names can be somewhat fluid without completely disrupting someone's academic identity.

[choidy87]

This topic always cracks me up because Muslim women in a good deal of the Middle East and the Arab world don't change their surnames. Also, if you look at Spanish (and colonial Spanish) naming customs, a child is given both its mother's and father's names. The female medical doctors I know and the med students I used to know kept their maiden names if they got their M.D.s prior to marriage and only used their husband's name if they were married prior to receiveng the M.D.

A friend recently told me that she thought a colleague's husband was a weak man because he took his wife's name. "Why?" is the only question I asked her.

I, personally, would never change my last name. I've never fully understood why there's even an expectation that I would. I'm no longer anyone's property and I really don't have any literal property give to anyone as part of an inheritance.

This is very much a cultural, status quo kinda of thing. Even my Middle Eastern-American and North African-American male friends (just to clarify that they grew up in the States) think it's odd that women change their names. Practically every other male I know who was raised in the U.S. can't imagine a wife not taking his name.

*** On a separate note, I really feel as though that Bush administration name change policy did more to hurt gay couples than anything else. Hmmm.

[Pamphilia]

I, personally, would never change my last name. I've never fully understood why there's even an expectation that I would. I'm no longer anyone's property

Yes.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

I like my last name, and I see no reason to change it, even if I get married.

After all, I've had this name for nearly 38 years, It's a great name (and works well with my first name), and I'm completely and utterly used to it. .

I shall be Prof. Llyr, not Llyr-something-or-other or Prof. something-or-other.

On the other hand, I also doubt I'll get married, so perhaps it's a moot point altogether .

And choidy - yes. I'm not property, so why change my name??

[michigan girl]

If I enter academia, I will add my husband's name and make my middle name my middle initial. My current name is so common that I need a different surname to differentiate myself from the crowd!

[so47]

Thanks for everyone's input with how easy/difficult it was to do a name change making your Maiden name into a middle name! It was very helpful! I really like this option the best, and will probably wind up doing that when I get married. I really feel strongly about having my family all have the same last name, but I don't want to risk my professional identity.

My next questions are this: When you fill out official forms and they only have a place for a middle initial, do you use your given middle name or the maiden name's initial? And when you publish/become a professor, do you use both, and the journal will print both names and not make them initials?

[UnlikelyGrad]

And choidy - yes. I'm not property, so why change my name??

Why does having the same last name as someone make you their property? If that were the case, does keeping your maiden name mean you are still the property of your parents?

To me, the name change was symbolic--my parents' family was no longer my primary family group. I was starting anew. (I have no problem with men taking their wives' last names, or with both choosing a different name altogether. However, like a previous poster, this was a practical choice for me. My old name was very common and left me as the brunt of many jokes.)

[choidy87]

Why does having the same last name as someone make you their property? If that were the case, does keeping your maiden name mean you are still the property of your parents?

To me, the name change was symbolic--my parents' family was no longer my primary family group. I was starting anew. (I have no problem with men taking their wives' last names, or with both choosing a different name altogether. However, like a previous poster, this was a practical choice for me. My old name was very common and left me as the brunt of many jokes.)

Unlikelygrad, I hope I didn't sound as if I was judging anyone else for how they've chosen to name themselves. That was never my intention. This is why I try to avoid electronic communication as much as is possible these days. I fully believe in the feminist movement's allowing each of us to make our own choices. So, apologies to anyone if I sounded as though I was pooh-poohing any choice but my own.

For Muslims, women's maiden names are kept, historically, because it means she's coming in with her own property and, I guess, leaving with it. While that was just a cultural example, it can be used against women in some ways now - not always. But then that naming system can vary from nation to nation and sect to sect.

Additionally, just as slaves were given their master's surname to signify that they were propery, women have been, also. Mrs. technically means Master's - as in a possession of the Master or Mister (Mr.)

And children were absolutely the property of their parents - absolutely! But, it's all I have. And that leads us back to a patriarchal discussion. No one questions men who've, for ages, kept their fathers' names as they moved from being property of their parents to having their own lives.

Again, it's a personal choice for each and every one of us. I adore my name.

Edited May 13, 2010 by choidy87

[Squawker]

My mother has an unusual maiden name, which as far as I can tell will die out with her generation. Our family hasn't found anyone, even in the "Old Country," who has this name, and my only uncle has no children. It's a really weird name and it's sad to think of it dying out. It's also the kind of name people laugh at because it's weird and goofy. For a while I've wanted to give that name to my [future] children, with the idea that I and their father would keep our own names. Of course that would be a bit confusing, but the major obstacle seems to be that I can't imagine any man ever agreeing to bestow this particular name upon his children, let alone any name that isn't his. Choosing not to take on a man's name can be offensive enough to the guy (not that it should be), but asking him to change his name or to give some other name to the children you have together would probably not be well-received! I was appalled when my boyfriend told me he'd be upset if we got married and I didn't take his name. I don't remember what he said when I suggested, to make a point, that he take on my name instead.

I guess the answer to my problem is to find a new guy with a last name like "Butts" that he'd be happy not to pass on to his children. Sorry if this is straying off topic, but I thought it was an interesting topic (especially the stuff I never knew about Muslim naming practices).

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

My plan is to legally take my husband's name in order to avoid family confusion. Plus, the man I'm with now feels it is very important to have one name. But in my professional life I will keep my maiden name. That is me doing all this work and I do plan on differentiating it. I do not think I will have a problem being Dr. MaidenName and Mrs. HisName.

[Bumblebee]

Yes.

I agree with this too.

And as a side note, there's a married professor in my current department. She hyphenated her husband's last name after her maiden name. The curious thing is that HE took her maiden name as well. I'm not sure whether he did so as a middle name or he actually took it as his first last name. Sometimes you can see him as First name Last name or First name Wife's maiden name Last name. Their children have both last names.

As for the other professors in my department, they all kept their maiden names.

[oldlady]

I find it surprising that some of you who would choose to take your husband's name would do so in order to protect his feelings or to avoid other people's confusion. One's name is part of one's own identity and, IMHO, it's very important to look inward before making such a major change to one's self.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I agree with this too.

And as a side note, there's a married professor in my current department. She hyphenated her husband's last name after her maiden name. The curious thing is that HE took her maiden name as well. I'm not sure whether he did so as a middle name or he actually took it as his first last name. Sometimes you can see him as First name Last name or First name Wife's maiden name Last name. Their children have both last names.

As for the other professors in my department, they all kept their maiden names.

One of my best friends in the whole world and her husband have a combined last name: HerMaidenName-HisBirthName. They both changed their name at marriage, and the kids have the hyphenated name. Her name is first, btw, because she comes from an all-girl family and there's no one to carry on the name. He, on the other hand, has several brothers. They considered using her maiden name exclusively, but settled on the hyphenation so their parents didn't flip out too much.

I have another friend who married a guy with a Polish last name. You know, the kind with almost no vowels. She kept her maiden name because, well, people could pronounce it. When their daughter was born, they decided to give her the mother's (English) last name. Later they had a son...and he got the dad's last name.

Personally, I wouldn't be too averse to going with a Nordic-style last name system: depending on your gender, you tack "-son" or "-dottir" on your dad's first name, and you keep that name for life.

[Slarti]

If I were to marry before I was published (unlikey) I might consider changing my name. But, my name is currently First Mom'sMaiden Last and I don't want to remove anything so I'd end up with three last names

Although, it would be funny if I married my current boyfriend and changed my last name to his: I'd have an Arabic first name and an English last name, but I'm neither Arabic nor european.

[UrbanWonk]

A new topic of this dragged this conversation up again, so I'll throw in my dilemma--about to head into graduate school, and will likely be engaged (I'm not just fantasizing; we've talked about it). However, his last name is hyphenated (his parents' names), and mine (maiden) is not. My last name was invented by Immigration so I'm not particularly attached to it, but me taking on his hyphenated last name would only cause confusion. FWIW, I'll have one, maybe two publications when we get married (under my maiden name). We've talked about inventing our own last name, and I really want our kids to have the same last name as us (I'm from the very traditional "family unit" school of thought...not for everyone, mind you, but it's important to me =D). Is this completely weird? I don't really plan on a career in academia, so the publication thing isn't a big deal, but is making up a surname completely crazy? Anyone know of people doing this?

[Sparky]

It's not usual, but it's very much not unheard of to invent your own last name! I actually know quite a few people who have done it, whether on immigration to the U.S., to escape (psychologically and, well, linguistically) abusive or simply disliked parents, or--as in your case--negotiating the same-name-as-kid desire in a non-sexist (and non-heterosexist) way. And think of all the famous people who have changed their last names, whether it's just a 'stage name' or they actually did it legally.

I don't have any advice on the publication issue, though. You could always use your future last name and call it a pen name?

[UnlikelyGrad]

A new topic of this dragged this conversation up again, so I'll throw in my dilemma--about to head into graduate school, and will likely be engaged (I'm not just fantasizing; we've talked about it). However, his last name is hyphenated (his parents' names), and mine (maiden) is not. My last name was invented by Immigration so I'm not particularly attached to it, but me taking on his hyphenated last name would only cause confusion. FWIW, I'll have one, maybe two publications when we get married (under my maiden name). We've talked about inventing our own last name, and I really want our kids to have the same last name as us (I'm from the very traditional "family unit" school of thought...not for everyone, mind you, but it's important to me =D). Is this completely weird? I don't really plan on a career in academia, so the publication thing isn't a big deal, but is making up a surname completely crazy? Anyone know of people doing this?

See, this is why I am not a big fan of the hyphenated-name thing (for kids, anyway). What happens when they grow up and get married themselves? If Jennifer Smith-Johnson marries Scott Jones-Taylor, will their daughter be Mary Smith-Johnson-Jones-Taylor? (BTW, I, too, think it's very important to have the kids have the same last name as their parents. The fact that I got many jokes about my maiden name was only a secondary reason to change my name at marriage.)

I think the invented surname is a good idea, BUT I would still recommend keeping your maiden name as a middle name of sorts (for publication search reasons).

[alexis]

See, this is why I am not a big fan of the hyphenated-name thing (for kids, anyway). What happens when they grow up and get married themselves? If Jennifer Smith-Johnson marries Scott Jones-Taylor, will their daughter be Mary Smith-Johnson-Jones-Taylor? (BTW, I, too, think it's very important to have the kids have the same last name as their parents. The fact that I got many jokes about my maiden name was only a secondary reason to change my name at marriage.)

If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me this My parents each kept their names and hyphenated mine and my brother's. I did, and still do, respect my mom for keeping her name and giving it equal weight to my dad's, even though I can't say I ever loved my last name. Everyone always asked me, "so, when you get married, will you be Alexis Smith-Jones-Edwards?" etc. Well, I did get married, and dropped my maiden name for my husband's. His was just simpler and nicer. My brother, on the other hand, has kept his hyphenated name, and his wife changed her name to his (so they are Mr. and Mrs. Smith-Jones).

I'm definitely an advocate of "to each their own" when it comes to the name thing. I've heard of the invented name thing before, and I think it's a great idea. It's a difficult decision regarding publications; there are many different approaches, but I think a woman should do whatever she is most comfortable with. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I find the whole "no one will be able to find your publications" argument not the most convincing. When you are going up for jobs, they will see your whole CV (including pubs in your maiden name), you can list those in your CV on your website, etc. If someone is really interested in finding out everything you've published, they'll look at your website. At least, that's what I do when looking for a list of an individual's publications--I don't just rely on a database search. Maybe there is a crucial situation where you would really be at a disadvantage to have different names, but I can't see how it would truly adversely impact your career. And nothing wrong with keeping a maiden name either--if I had liked my last name, it's highly likely I would have kept it (yeah, I'm superficial that way).

[eucalyptus]

My best friend in grade 3 had an invented last name: New (as in, "we're going to give you a new last name!"). Eight-year-old me thought it was really awesome, although I did accidentally call her mom "Mrs New" when I first met her.

I plan on keeping my last name, because I'll probably have publications by then and my boyfriend's last name isn't any cooler than mine (if it was, I would probably take it). Our kids can have his last name, and the occasional "Mrs HisLastName" won't bother me... years of having my first name mispronounced never got on my nerves, so I doubt this will.

[HelloKaty37]

See, this is why I am not a big fan of the hyphenated-name thing (for kids, anyway). What happens when they grow up and get married themselves? If Jennifer Smith-Johnson marries Scott Jones-Taylor, will their daughter be Mary Smith-Johnson-Jones-Taylor? (BTW, I, too, think it's very important to have the kids have the same last name as their parents. The fact that I got many jokes about my maiden name was only a secondary reason to change my name at marriage.)

I've known quite a few people from a long line of hyphenated last names. They have all been of Mexican-American families, so perhaps it is a cultural thing. Typically, they have each inherited [Mother's Maiden]-[Father's] so, for example, Maria Chavez-Garcia marries Juan Gonzales-Valdez and their child is named Jose Garcia-Valdez. Thus, the children take something from both their mother and their father. Granted, the grandmothers get left out of the final equation, but it solves the problem of never-ending name multiplication without the woman's heritage getting lost. I've never taken note of how the wife's name is changed when she gets married, but this may give an idea of how children's names can work with two hyphenated last names.

[starmaker]

My parents have different last names, and you guys have no idea how much headache this caused me growing up. I constantly had to explain this at every point during my teenage years. Everyone always assumed that my mom was either my stepmother or just some woman my dad was dating at the time! I got teased about this frequently in middle school and high school and it really didn't stop until I moved away for college and most of my peers were more mature.

How old are you and where did you grow up, that having a stepmother or dating parent - even if that had been the case rather than an incorrect assumption - would be considered novel enough to be teasing-worthy or even comment-worthy?

I grew up in a conservative area with parents who divorced and remarried (and thus a mother with a different last name than me, and a stepfather too for that matter), and I got teased and bullied for a lot of things, but never about my parents' names or marital situations. Because it wasn't unusual enough to use as a basis for teasing, even in that conservative area.

I did not change my name when I got married. I would not have changed my name even if I were in a different profession where people don't publish. If my future kids don't approve, they can deal with it.

[Katzenmusik]

My mother and I also have different last names. My last name comes from my father, who I didn't live with and who was not the primary care-giver. I therefore have no problem with shucking my last name off eventually when I get married. It's a patriarchal name whether it comes from my future husband or my father. It doesn't have anything to do with my identity or autonomy. It also happens to be a common, boring name shared by at least one other person in my field.

Do I sound defensive? I just am already anticipating conversations about how I've sold out feminist values by choosing to lose my own last name!

[poco_puffs]

Do I sound defensive? I just am already anticipating conversations about how I've sold out feminist values by choosing to lose my own last name!

As a feminist myself, I think we should have control over our names-- we can make whatever choice for whatever damn reason we like. That, at least as I see it, has been the ultimate lesson of this thread. If anyone has a problem with how you handle your name, well, that's their problem.