2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[orangejuicefiend]

15 minutes ago, humbledarrogance said:

i truly didn't mean that post about you. i should have specified that. i was referring more to the general attitude to folks on draft and here. i feel if you're really wanting to go to NYU and have hope about going then to just wait it out. what's really important is where you feel you fit in the best

 

No worries at all! Thanks for the advice

[Ogilvie]

11 hours ago, koechophe said:

As someone who actually has done semi-professional statistical analysis, the data here actually doesn't show discrimination against older people. 

Whenever we deal with data, we have to consider sample size. The sample size shown here for people over 40 is about 5.5% of the total pool. That's what we'd call an extreme minority, and since we're just dealing with 100 people (or less) in each category AND we're dealing with acceptance ratios that, at max, hit 3.6%, there's no way to conclusively say that the data points to a trend.

Take, for example, the fact that 46-50 year olds have a 2.5% acceptance compared to the 1% from the 41-45 year olds. Does that mean that group is randomly more favored? Actually it means they literally got 1 more acceptance. Because a single acceptance can sway the stats so heavily with such a small group (and because "good" or "bad" writing samples will always have an element of subjectivity to them) there's no way you can look at that data and say it's evidence of it being "harder" to get in. 

The truth of the matter is, not enough older people apply for the statistics to be meaningful. Try not to read too much into these statistics, there's not enough here to draw any sort of conclusions. 

I can't offer you hard evidence that there isn't ageism in MFA admissions. My bet is that individuals may or may not be slightly ageist--because we all have subconscious biases to some degree--but I haven't found any strong evidence that it does exist. And I've read a number of articles by adcoms who say they tend to prefer people who aren't coming right out of undergrad, and they like more experienced writers.

If I can share some personal experience... it's really easy in this process to look for every reason as to why you're not getting accepted. It's easy to look for a scapegoat, because having the reason be anything OTHER than our own writing is much, much more palatable.

Last year, I did that with Covid. I was like, "This is a crummy year to apply, and that's why I didn't get in." And it meant that I didn't do as much work as I should've on improving my sample. Getting straight rejections earlier this year was a wake-up call that I needed to work more on my writing. 

At the end of the day, all we can really do is improve our writing, and I do believe that anyone with strong enough writing will get into a great program. 

 

hey, you sound incredibly defensive! note, my question for you was, can you name these programs that you claim prefer older applicants? a question you didn't answer anywhere in your vomitous reply. which is not a surprise. because you were lying to begin with.

 

okay, we get you're hostile to the possibility that MFA programs engage in illegal age discrimination. but nobody asked you to be a fact finder. your spin on the iowa data is not legally-informed or even remotely objective. 

 

you have a knee-jerk defensive reaction to any implied criticism of the mfa as a system. you have given so many misleading, poorly reasoned responses!

 

i'm not going to bother rebutting every inaccurate or poorly-reasoned statement of yours. i'll just say this: don't be such a time burglar!

[strawberrybaldwin]

1 hour ago, orangejuicefiend said:

I've been lurking on this forum without an account for a while and wanted to say congratulations to everyone! I was accepted into the Rutgers Newark program for poetry and have some questions regarding the program, since it's been hard to find much information about them online. Does anyone have insight into the program itself or their general reputation within the community? I was waitlisted for NYU as well -- is that worth waiting for (in relation to the Rutgers Newark acceptance)? Has anyone else heard from Rutgers Newark for poetry?

hey! longtime lurker myself here! can i message you to talk over some things!? cause we might just end up being in the same cohort at Rutgers!

 

[orangejuicefiend]

1 minute ago, strawberrybaldwin said:

hey! longtime lurker myself here! can i message you to talk over some things!? cause we might just end up being in the same cohort at Rutgers!

 

yes please I would love that!!

[Nightwitch]

2 hours ago, panglosian said:

Brown poetry acceptance posted, added today but accepted yesterday

Omg! Congratulations!!

[panglosian]

@Nightwitch not me lmao, I wish ?

[Nightwitch]

2 minutes ago, panglosian said:

@Nightwitch not me lmao, I wish ?

Sorry xD got too excited - forgot to look at the programs on your signature ?

[CHRISTOPHER QUANG BUI]

Congrats to everyone hearing good news this year! It’s truly great to see. 

Did anyone see acceptances for Hollins or were all the results thus far only waitlists?

[Nightwitch]

My application in Iowa state changed from Under Review by Graduate Department to Under Review ? Does that mean anything? Waitlists have gone out - and I thiiiiink I saw a fiction acceptance too - so can I safely cross this out as well?

[SteveHolt]

Just received the phone call for University of Florida! Very surprising as after eight rejections I had emotionally prepared for applying again next year. Anyways, they said they're only accepting two fiction and two poetry applicants this year, so I'm posting on the off chance that anyone here has attended and can answer questions about the program, or if any of my fellow acceptees are here.

[Nightwitch]

17 minutes ago, SteveHolt said:

Just received the phone call for University of Florida! Very surprising as after eight rejections I had emotionally prepared for applying again next year. Anyways, they said they're only accepting two fiction and two poetry applicants this year, so I'm posting on the off chance that anyone here has attended and can answer questions about the program, or if any of my fellow acceptees are here.

Congratulations  

[oubukibun]

One of my best friends and a fellow teacher received her master's degree in education from UF (also her bachelor's) and to this day she is a Gators fan through and through.  Can't say enough good things about the school.

I know this isn't directly helpful to you, but just wanted to throw it out there that someone I trust and love very much had the time of her life there twice over. 

Congrats, by the way!!  I was in a similar situation until Alaska and New Orleans came through.  Hope you get the info you need to make that final decision.

 

Cheers!

[Nightwitch]

23 minutes ago, SteveHolt said:

Just received the phone call for University of Florida! Very surprising as after eight rejections I had emotionally prepared for applying again next year. Anyways, they said they're only accepting two fiction and two poetry applicants this year, so I'm posting on the off chance that anyone here has attended and can answer questions about the program, or if any of my fellow acceptees are here.

Someone just posted on Draft that they got a poetry acceptance for UF. Maybe you could contact them?

[panglosian]

Waitlisted at VCU for poetry!!! I asked them about my status and they forwarded the notification, I think poetry might be coming out for others soon if so. 

[finch66]

If there are any Canadian applicants on here, I wanted to let them know that I will be accepting my fiction spot at UVic and declining my spots at UBCO, UNB, and UAF. Also taking myself off the UW-Seattle waitlist. I haven't heard from Guelph yet, but they've already sent out acceptances from what I understand so I assume rejection anyways. Good luck friends.

[gagne]

5 hours ago, panglosian said:

Brown poetry acceptance posted, added today but accepted yesterday

Saw that and seemed confusing to me as they usually send to portal and I have no emails so we’ll see

[koechophe]

8 hours ago, Ogilvie said:

hey, you sound incredibly defensive! note, my question for you was, can you name these programs that you claim prefer older applicants? a question you didn't answer anywhere in your vomitous reply. which is not a surprise. because you were lying to begin with.

The reason I didn't name the programs is because when I went back to check on articles I'd read, most were written by people who were no longer teaching in their programs, so I doubted they'd be of any help. 

I guess if you still want to know, here are some examples of the more helpful ones on application advice. All three mention preferring to either get people of all ages in their programs or preferring candidates who took time off after undergraduate. 
https://forge.medium.com/an-mfa-admissions-officer-on-making-your-writing-stand-out-2af00d71dd06

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/education-oronte-churm/guy-who-may-have-read-your-mfa-application-speaks

https://leemartinauthor.com/2013/10/21/applying-for-an-mfa-program-whoa-not-so-fast/

It's an opinion I've seen posted a lot by people actually in these programs that younger applicants, especially ones right out of undergrad, are less preferred by adcoms, who want people with more life experience. If anything, it'd be easy for me to hop on the ageism train and say "the system is working against me" because I'm right out of my undergraduate, but I honestly believe that it comes down to the writing.

Either way, I've said my piece, and I genuinely hope things work out for you. 

[RosA-R]

12 hours ago, fireplace said:

fiction! but I know poetry is out as well.

Hey, someone on Draft just said they know of someone who got a CNF offer of admission at Hunter today. Has anyone else heard anything??

[RosA-R]

1 hour ago, empathy1 said:

@RosA-R , three sureties: death, taxes, Hunter rejected you. 

I am assuming you didn't interview. Hunter is one of the schools that interviews everyone that is given a shot. It never interviews this late. There is a post here, on grad cafe, a few pages back: Someone was admitted to Hunter Fiction already, and he said someone else was admitted in poetry. 

There is a post on Draft about someone who emailed with an admin at Hunter. The admin wrote her that she was rejected already, and she asked Draft for advice whether she should write back for clarification on the ambiguity. There was no ambiguity, of course. There was wishful thinking and denial. 

If that's true, oh well, it is what it is, one less thing to stress about!

I think that person was told they were on the 'longlist', which I am assuming is their word for wait-list. While the email response they received was discouraging, there is always hope for those waitlisted, and clearly that hasn't been fully announced yet, they had to ask!

For those who like me were asking about nonfiction specifically, these other admissions plus that 'someone knows of someone' confirmation of a CNF admission on Draft are worrying, but there is always the long list it seems, and if not, I'm right here with you all! 

Best of luck to those still waiting!!!

Edited March 17, 2022 by RosA-R

[neche]

9 hours ago, koechophe said:

The reason I didn't name the programs is because when I went back to check on articles I'd read, most were written by people who were no longer teaching in their programs, so I doubted they'd be of any help. 

I guess if you still want to know, here are some examples of the more helpful ones on application advice. All three mention preferring to either get people of all ages in their programs or preferring candidates who took time off after undergraduate. 
https://forge.medium.com/an-mfa-admissions-officer-on-making-your-writing-stand-out-2af00d71dd06

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/education-oronte-churm/guy-who-may-have-read-your-mfa-application-speaks

https://leemartinauthor.com/2013/10/21/applying-for-an-mfa-program-whoa-not-so-fast/

It's an opinion I've seen posted a lot by people actually in these programs that younger applicants, especially ones right out of undergrad, are less preferred by adcoms, who want people with more life experience. If anything, it'd be easy for me to hop on the ageism train and say "the system is working against me" because I'm right out of my undergraduate, but I honestly believe that it comes down to the writing.

Either way, I've said my piece, and I genuinely hope things work out for you. 

You should by now be familiar with the troll's voice, no matter the accounts/personalities he hides behind. Ogilvy, empathy1 are his more moderate accounts with a little less vitroil to their posts, the third personality being the one that is plain vile, gets repeatedly, and always coming back in new accounts. But I'm convinced all three or more belong to the same person.

[Ydrl]

20 hours ago, orangejuicefiend said:

I've been lurking on this forum without an account for a while and wanted to say congratulations to everyone! I was accepted into the Rutgers Newark program for poetry and have some questions regarding the program, since it's been hard to find much information about them online. Does anyone have insight into the program itself or their general reputation within the community? I was waitlisted for NYU as well -- is that worth waiting for (in relation to the Rutgers Newark acceptance)? Has anyone else heard from Rutgers Newark for poetry?

There a very small poetry youtuber named Dimitri Reyes who went there. I'm sure if you found a way to contact him he'd answer your questions, he's a pretty chill guy.

[Ydrl]

And if any of you happen to be in Iowa City or nearby today until the 22nd, I'm apartment hunting and sitting in on classes and want to hang out! (I'm traveling alone and I'm lonely...)

[MDP]

Might be jumping the gun a bit, but I've started a thread for next year's application cycle: 

Don't know about you all, but I'm hoping to distract myself from the rejection sadness by doing some new writing and getting excited for future possibilities. DM me on here if you want to get added to the workshop spreadsheet.  Congrats to all who have gotten in so far!

[koechophe]

3 hours ago, neche said:

But I'm convinced all three or more belong to the same person.

You may well be right. Ogliv seemed like a different voice print to me, so I treated them as a different person. 

Either way, I've given what advice I feel appropriate, and have no intention of replying to them further. 

[koechophe]

50 minutes ago, MDP said:

Don't know about you all, but I'm hoping to distract myself from the rejection sadness by doing some new writing and getting excited for future possibilities.

That's a fabulous approach!