Bad GPA: to address or not?

[NewEmpiric]

This topic comes up from time to time, and i've read some of the responses. Still, I want to ask about my specific situation.

I've posted elsewhere that my undergrad GPA wasn't great at all: 2.9.

Some factors:

- It was 8 years ago.

- I have taken about 2 years worth of post-bacc classes, with roughly a 3.9 (the only B was in a totally irrelevant class)

- Recent psych and CS classes are at 4.0 (including 3 graduate classes)

So, I know people suggest that you can either 1) address it _very_ briefly in the SOP, or 2) write an additional essay.

My question is as follows:

Talking about my old GPA doesn't fit at all in the current structure of my SOP. I putting it in would probably interrupt the flow, and detract from what I want to talk about (my research).

For schools that don't allow a secondary essay then, should I try to fit it into my SOP? Or, should I just leave it out and really focus on whatever recent successes I might have had?

[Medievalmaniac]

This topic comes up from time to time, and i've read some of the responses. Still, I want to ask about my specific situation.

I've posted elsewhere that my undergrad GPA wasn't great at all: 2.9.

Some factors:

- It was 8 years ago.

- I have taken about 2 years worth of post-bacc classes, with roughly a 3.9 (the only B was in a totally irrelevant class)

- Recent psych and CS classes are at 4.0 (including 3 graduate classes)

So, I know people suggest that you can either 1) address it _very_ briefly in the SOP, or 2) write an additional essay.

My question is as follows:

Talking about my old GPA doesn't fit at all in the current structure of my SOP. I putting it in would probably interrupt the flow, and detract from what I want to talk about (my research).

For schools that don't allow a secondary essay then, should I try to fit it into my SOP? Or, should I just leave it out and really focus on whatever recent successes I might have had?

You need to address it, and preferably in a separate statement. It doesn't fit with the statement of purpose; you need to include a personal statement as an addendum to your application that specifically explains what happened with that GPA. It needs to be matter of fact and not to go onto a lot of personal feelings on the matter - professional and polished, no emotional tweaking. Adcomms understand that there are circumstances beyond our control, but they want to know what those reasons are, and that we can handle ourselves now.

Good luck!

[UnlikelyGrad]

I'm going to disagree with MedievalManiac: I don't think you need to address it if you have a more recent academic record.

As I've mentioned before, I totally, utterly, completely screwed up my first two years of undergrad. My GPA after sophomore year was 1.9. And only because I took a "leave of absence" right before the end of the last quarter--if I'd stuck around for grades, it would probably have dropped to 1.5 or so. After this I got married, changed schools, and changed majors; thereafter my GPA was reasonable (~3.6) but of course my overall GPA was never salvageable.

15 years after graduating, I did some work as a postbac and got a 4.0.

I applied to grad school. At first I tried to address the GPA issue in my SOP (along with all of the other inadequacies I had) but this only made it sound whiny and apologetic. I scrapped that draft and started again, completely ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. (Most schools didn't have the option for a supplemental essay, so I didn't include the info anywhere.) I got into 4 out of 9 schools so evidently some people didn't mind the fact that I did crappy work as a very young adult.

What really clinched it for me was receiving the evaluations of my EPA-STAR fellowship proposal last year. Two of them were terse but one was very, very verbose. For the section on academic preparation, the reviewer said something like, "Lousy performance at BigNameU doesn't bother me. Applicant seems to have matured into a diligent student." Before this I suspected that most people would view my transcripts this way, but this was concrete evidence.

So I say don't bother addressing things. Your subsequent performance speaks for itself. Adcomms know that real life interferes with academics sometimes; they don't need to know the details of your particular case.

[Medievalmaniac]

I'm going to disagree with MedievalManiac: I don't think you need to address it if you have a more recent academic record.

As I've mentioned before, I totally, utterly, completely screwed up my first two years of undergrad. My GPA after sophomore year was 1.9. And only because I took a "leave of absence" right before the end of the last quarter--if I'd stuck around for grades, it would probably have dropped to 1.5 or so. After this I got married, changed schools, and changed majors; thereafter my GPA was reasonable (~3.6) but of course my overall GPA was never salvageable.

15 years after graduating, I did some work as a postbac and got a 4.0.

I applied to grad school. At first I tried to address the GPA issue in my SOP (along with all of the other inadequacies I had) but this only made it sound whiny and apologetic. I scrapped that draft and started again, completely ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. (Most schools didn't have the option for a supplemental essay, so I didn't include the info anywhere.) I got into 4 out of 9 schools so evidently some people didn't mind the fact that I did crappy work as a very young adult.

What really clinched it for me was receiving the evaluations of my EPA-STAR fellowship proposal last year. Two of them were terse but one was very, very verbose. For the section on academic preparation, the reviewer said something like, "Lousy performance at BigNameU doesn't bother me. Applicant seems to have matured into a diligent student." Before this I suspected that most people would view my transcripts this way, but this was concrete evidence.

So I say don't bother addressing things. Your subsequent performance speaks for itself. Adcomms know that real life interferes with academics sometimes; they don't need to know the details of your particular case.

Every experience is different. My reason for suggesting the GPA be addressed is precisely because, in my case, that undergraduate GPA kept me out despite my own subsequent successes (and I was told specifically by two programs that this was the primary reason for my rejection). I applied to 5 schools, one reach and four I thought were very comfortable fits. One turned out not to be a possibility at all, in the end, because the professor I most wanted to work with was retiring, and one was not a possibility for just about everyone who applied there, because they received a record 700 applications for 12 slots last year (?!) That left three - the two rejections, and an admit no funding.

My stats:

Undergraduate GPA (at the number one public college in the nation): 2.66

Master's GPA, 13 years later: 4.0

GRE: Math 480 (I know! Ack.) Verbal: 640 (89%), AWA 6.

Praxis (teaching licensure exams): General: Reading/Writing: 99 % Math 93% French Subject: 94% English Subject 100% Certified in both French and English

Teaching experience: 15 years from middle school trough university levels, including beginning a program from scratch and writing the curriculum from its inception.

Publications: one full single -authored article in a peer reviewed journal, 10 Encyclopedic entries, with several more academic pieces accepted and in the pipeline, including a chapter in an MLA collection of essays on Teaching Tolkien and my thesis expanded into monograph length. Several fiction pieces also published.

Conferences: ten conference papers delivered over five years, including three at the international conference in my field. Conference activity includes organizing and presiding over sessions.

Languages: French (native proficiency) Latin, German (intermediate), Italian (intermediate) Spanish (intermediate), Old and Middle English, and Classical Greek (reading ability)

In other words, while there were certainly other parts of my application that weren't as strong as they should have been, ultimately, as was explained to me by two of five adcomms, my undergraduate GPA was the major reason I didn't get in. When I asked how they could not take everything else into consideration, I was told I should have explained why I did so badly out of the starting gate.

So, my advice stands - based on what the adcomms at the schools to which I applied told me, you should explain it.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Medievalmaniac

[repatriate]

When I applied to psychology departments, I addressed my low GPA in my SOP simply by stating that it is not indicative of my talent or potential and by explaining how my more recent scores are better indicators. I didn't attempt to provide excuses, but I was frequently asked about the scores in interviews, at which point I elaborated on why they were low and how the cause of the low scores was no longer a concern.

[Kitkat]

Some schools have a section in the application that is seperate from the SOP where they ask if there is something on your application like a low GPA that you would like to explain. I know Columbia definately has one, but really, its just a matter of looking at it. If they don't, I would say email them to see if you could include an addition to your application for that.

[mutualist007]

I am applying to Anthropology PhD programs, but someone close to me is applying to Psych programs and she needs encouragement. I figure that cold facts and comparisons would help so here I am asking. Will a Masters in Counseling with a high GPA help offset a lower undergrad GPA? Her undergrad GPA from 2005 was in the 2.8-2.9 range I think, but since then she earned a Masters in Counseling with a GPA of 4.0. Her GRE score is around 1350 scoring over 600 on each portion.

Major personal difficulties (triggering) and depression played a big role in her undergrad GPA. I am well aware of the opinions on counseling.

Which specific programs are most likely to accept someone with a less stellar undergrad, and which schools accepted those of you from the same low undergrad GPA circumstances?

Prefer Penn and Atlantic States, and/or Midwest. South is okay too.