Advice on voluntary visits with faculty

[cschields]

I'm curious if any brave and weathered PhD applicants (or current candidates) have advice for someone heading into a face-to-face meeting with a faculty member who I have my sights set on as a potential advisor.

While I can speak articulately enough about my own research interests, and will certainly familiarize myself with those of the faculty member, I am trying to formulate some appropriate questions. These discussions, I've been warned, can be highly nuanced and I don't want to ostracize myself by asking ill-informed or inappropriate questions.

More succinctly, where is it appropriate to ask direct and forthright questions, and where is it wise to tread lightly?

I appreciate any help you can contribute!

[Medievalmaniac]

I'm curious if any brave and weathered PhD applicants (or current candidates) have advice for someone heading into a face-to-face meeting with a faculty member who I have my sights set on as a potential advisor.

While I can speak articulately enough about my own research interests, and will certainly familiarize myself with those of the faculty member, I am trying to formulate some appropriate questions. These discussions, I've been warned, can be highly nuanced and I don't want to ostracize myself by asking ill-informed or inappropriate questions.

More succinctly, where is it appropriate to ask direct and forthright questions, and where is it wise to tread lightly?

I appreciate any help you can contribute!

Honestly, from my perspective, you go in there and ask the questions you want to ask. I know a lot of people disagree with me and that there seems to be this notion that there's a high-stakes game to be played in it all - but if I'm meeting with a faculty member, it's because I want to meet the faculty member, and if I want to meet him/her, it's because I have questions - and so I am going to ask them. I just don't know how to respond to the idea that professors conduct these interviews as a sort of secret rite of passage, and if you say the right thing, the right way, you're in, and if you say the wrong thing, the wrong way, you're out. I mean, obviously, you should seek to be articulate, educated, and not blatantly offensive - but beyond that, you can't really control a conversation. I should think people you would want to work with, would be happy to meet an enthusiastic and prepared applicant. I am always responsive to enthusiastic students, although of course I'm teaching high school level courses. I have met professors who seem to take offense at things said and the way they are said - but these also tend to be professors I am certain I would not want to work with. When I'm at conferences and meeting people, I enjoy best the professors who are down to earth and just really passionate about their research and the work of others, they're just really into the profession and their place in it and the whole thing. There's a lot of camaraderie and laughter in such conversations, a lot of fun as well as scholarship going on, and those are the kinds of people I like to work with. None of them, I believe, would reject a candidate because of a question s/he asked, as long as it was a reasonable question.

I mean - don't ask them about their family, or religious views, or their home decor...but wondering about their current projects and what they think of the current state of the field, I should think they would not view askance. If they're acting as though this is a top-secret club and you're not a member, that's a pretty elitist viewpoint, and while they are entitled to have that viewpoint and have earned it and so on and so forth (I certainly wouldn't begrudge a professor the right to a little "you have to earn it" action) in the end, these are people you have to work with for 5-7 years. For me, a highly hierarchical department wouldn't work, I like interdisciplinary approaches too much. For others, the idea of a regulated moving up in the ranks according to your specific situation and how much time you have put in is a major selling point in academia, and that's fine, too. There are all sorts of academics, and all sorts of professors, and I think in the end you have to approach this in the way that makes you feel most comfortable. A doctoral program is a major commitment, so I think you should feel strongly that you are going to be happy (or at least content and productive) wherever you end up. In my book, that definitely means meeting professors in the department and asking questions. For a lot of people, that seems like crossing the line. So - wow, I hope this was a helpful viewpoint; it's just one of many. Good luck!

Edited October 26, 2010 by Medievalmaniac

[anthropologygeek]

I completely agree with the above poster. I've always noticed they enjoy questions. However do your homework. If they study abc and you just talk about xyz that may make it so you don't get in under them. I do know of places that if you don't visit you don't have a shot of getting in.

[starmaker]

Like anthropologygeek said, do your homework, but not just in the sense of making sure the prof works in the subfield that you thought. Look through their website and make sure that you don't ask them questions whose answers are right there on the site.

I just found an MS thesis advisor the other day. When we met, he really did most of the talking, telling me about his upcoming projects and intended research directions.

[TMP]

Just RELAX. Look at this as a networking opportunity, not a formal interview for admissions. If you're going to get in the field, you might as well get to know as many people as you can, regardless of whether or not you actually get into that program. Remember, if not to the PhD program, your connections and impressions could very well come to them when you apply for field-wide/national fellowships that they're on committees of or a post-doc/professor position in their department down the road.

Try, try to save any admissions questions until the very end. If they bring up your application for admissions sooner, it's fine to ask right then. Talk and get them to talk about their graduate students, it'll give you a sense of what kind of adviser they are. Show yourself as an engaging colleague.

[cschields]

These are all great pieces of advice -- thank you. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the goal, ie., 'getting in,' that you forget part of this process is supposed to be enjoyable and informative, not merely a means to an end.

I'm sure my anxiety will be pretty overwhelming (and, regrettably, already is) prior to the meeting, so I suppose I'm asking what I can expect when I go in there. Yes, conversations follow their own logic, but I'd feel much more at ease with some concrete speaking points. I have been preparing some thoughtful questions while allowing room for the natural ease of good conversation -- that said, what are some things that have been asked of you during these meetings? Anything that you wished you had given more thought or attention to?

[coyabean]

Did it, strongly recommend it.

Like Medieval I took the approach of two professionals discussing a business matter with personal ramifications. So, they had some stake in it, too. Now, that may or may not be actually true but it put me in a good mental space for the conversation. Only the most sadistic academics like sweaty-palmed, terrified applicants. A little confidence can go a long way.

As can good questions. I think the quality of your questions -- do they go beyond basics found on the website? are they insightful? do you have a commend of the language of the discipline? -- can leave the biggest positive impression. So few people ask anything intelligent in these things...or, so I've been told. LOL

All of the people I talked with before applying made reference to that during the app cycle and even now people in my program talk about those conversations. So, it matters.

[cschields]

Did it, strongly recommend it.

Like Medieval I took the approach of two professionals discussing a business matter with personal ramifications. So, they had some stake in it, too. Now, that may or may not be actually true but it put me in a good mental space for the conversation. Only the most sadistic academics like sweaty-palmed, terrified applicants. A little confidence can go a long way.

As can good questions. I think the quality of your questions -- do they go beyond basics found on the website? are they insightful? do you have a commend of the language of the discipline? -- can leave the biggest positive impression. So few people ask anything intelligent in these things...or, so I've been told. LOL

All of the people I talked with before applying made reference to that during the app cycle and even now people in my program talk about those conversations. So, it matters.

Thank you for this advice; I've done my best to move beyond what has been written on the website and to carefully read this professor's scholarship. I'm still grappling with matters of propriety, however. Is it insightful and not insultingly forthright to ask a potential advisor what he seeks in an advisee? Because, to me, this would have major implications for us both and could, again, save us each a lot of time. In lieu of the contact information of any of his graduate students (also not listed on the website), is it appropriate to get his take on the interaction between faculty and students and the cohort as a whole? These are things I am genuinely curious about and which weigh heavily on my decision to apply to a particular program, but I have been told that they are not always best directed at faculty, and it would be a shame if these sorts of genuine inquiries put me out of the running.

As far as confidence goes, I trust in my ability to conduct good scholarship, but I am positively terrified about this meeting tomorrow...I just have no idea what to expect and probably won't know until the conversation is underway.

Thanks again for all of your help!

[coyabean]

Thank you for this advice; I've done my best to move beyond what has been written on the website and to carefully read this professor's scholarship. I'm still grappling with matters of propriety, however. Is it insightful and not insultingly forthright to ask a potential advisor what he seeks in an advisee? Because, to me, this would have major implications for us both and could, again, save us each a lot of time. In lieu of the contact information of any of his graduate students (also not listed on the website), is it appropriate to get his take on the interaction between faculty and students and the cohort as a whole? These are things I am genuinely curious about and which weigh heavily on my decision to apply to a particular program, but I have been told that they are not always best directed at faculty, and it would be a shame if these sorts of genuine inquiries put me out of the running.

As far as confidence goes, I trust in my ability to conduct good scholarship, but I am positively terrified about this meeting tomorrow...I just have no idea what to expect and probably won't know until the conversation is underway.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Those are smart, insightful questions. It is not at all improper to inquire about his or her expectations. I did the same thing and I think everyone appreciated it. It shows you are savvy about what success in grad school requires. A strong advisor relationship is central to that success for most students.

People may have said your questions about department culture are not best directed at faculty because their perspective may not be compatible with the role you'll embody as a grad student, not that it is improper to ask. Faculty experiences of department culture can be so different from a grad students that it can be comical. It is still a good question. If nothing else you can get an idea of what kind of politics are played there that might get in the way, for example, of you building an effective committee. Asking to speak with graduate students, if available, is smart and acceptable (desirable, even). My program had grad students do almost all of our interview orientation for this very reason. Just be aware that no one is going to direct you to the bitter grad student. LOL You'll get department cheerleaders but even seeing their level of satisfaction is instructive. If they best they can find is the grad student who sued the department for discrimination? You know happy students are slim pickings.

None of your questions sound improper. Remember that an inquisitive applicant is still, even this market, a pretty hot (ok, luke warm?) commodity. You have some power...at least until you sign the offer letter. Go with confidence.

[warpspeed]

My biggest advice is be yourself. When I went to visit my top choice earlier this semester, my discussion with their graduate adviser extended far beyond just academia. We talked about all sorts of things and at the end he said that he was glad I came to speak to him (we spoke for over an hour and a half) and that he could tell my personality would be a great fit with the program and that that held a lot of weight. Granted they have a pretty unique program with a low admittance rate, but they do have a LOT of applicants. Also, speak with as many people as you can. I spoke with 5 professors ( as encouraged by their director of grad studies) and even though 3 of them and I didn't sync on research topics, they all said they were very happy I came and spoke to them ( I met with them each for about an hour or so).

Good programs WANT the best students, but they also want stable people that mesh with their department. You're an investment for them (at least in my field where they fully fund most/all students plus stipend), they should treat the interview/meeting as such. That's not at all to say you should be high and mighty, but remember, as much as they're picking you, you're also picking them.

Edited November 2, 2010 by warpspeed