Giving up

[mattyd05]

I'm a couple hours south of you (finishing up my MA at St. Bonaventure). Three of the schools on your list (UFlorida, UNLV, and Rutgers) are on my list as well. I sincerely hope that we both wind up with acceptances to the same program, because I will make sure that you never live down the fact that you had a mini-mid-life crisis at the ripe old age of 24.

Signed,

Your 31 year old fellow applicant

Quarter-life crisis? (Or third...)

But seriously, this wasn't exactly a plea for encouragement, as one poster said. It was more of a momentary venting of all my frustrations and anxieties that have been building and layering for the last 3+ years. Sorry to anyone who thought I was being narcissistic or selfish. Not my intention.

[againstourfaces]

I was 100% skeptical of gradcafe and thought that it was filled with people who needed to occupy their time better. However, I've since found it almost comforting. It's given me a chance to take in all my "implicit" rejections. And I bet half the people on here aren't as nervous as they seem in print. Sometimes melodrama prevails. Sometimes it's fun to sound ridiculous and bitch to one another. Seeing all the rejections come up on the board makes me realize that it's completely okay to take a year off from school, or to have to apply a second year around. It makes me realize I am not alone. It's hard talking about applications to people who haven't ever done it, because they simply just don't understand how much energy it takes out of you. Gradcafe is filled with people that *do* understand, so it's not so bad.

[fall-11]

Just to chime in about the age factor, I'm 30 and applying to PhD programs, and I do think I'm much more mature and focused now than I was when I was in my early 20s, and hence much more prepared to start the PhD. Also, where I'm currently doing my MA, most people enter the PhD in their mid to late 20s, and graduate in their early 30s.

ETA: Just to give the flipside, about being too young -- I know someone who started her PhD (in Chemistry, though, not English) at UPenn right after her BA. So she was around 21 or 22. And in her first semester, she basically had a nervous breakdown because she wasn't able to handle the pressure and wasn't really psychologically prepared for the huge transition from undergrad to PhD-level work. She's obviously extremely smart and talented, but she just hadn't realized what she was getting into. She ended up taking a semester off on medical leave, and then returned the following year. She's doing fine now (and in her second year there), but she said in retrospect she should have waited a year or two to "grow up" a little bit before throwing herself into the pressure cooker of a PhD program.

Edited February 19, 2011 by fall-11

[Awin]

an ad hominem and insubstantial rebuttal

And your substantial rebuttal is...

[lyonessrampant]

While the statistics say it is easiee to get into law school than an English Ph.D, I disagree thathis is the automatically more lucrative path. My partner and lots of friends are in law school, and many of them are spending the first few years without legal jobs. This is especially problematic because you on average accrue over 100k in debt for the JD, and that number is on the low side. At least you won't accrue that debt in a Ph.D. In addition the market is producing a surfeit of lawyers partly because of the attitde I'm addressing here, so jobs are paying less since they have so many qualified applicants. My partner and many of his friends have come across MINIMUM WAGE postings for new lawyers. I'm not saying don't be a lawyer if that's what you want, but realize few fields guarantee financial success and longevity. (please excuse typos. . . On my phone)

[Raputa]

I'll add to the string of posts by older PHD applicants. I also went back to school for an MA program in literature after 8 years in a completely unrelated and fairly successful career. I am turning 32 next month. And having gotten an acceptance from the program I had been dreaming of going to, I can tell you that I am beyond happy to be starting my doctorate at this age, and looking forward to a focused 6 or so years ahead. Every person is different, of course, but I know that the past, say, 8 years or so have given me more clarity and belief in what I am doing right now than I could have ever imagined 8 years ago. One thing that has changed for sure is that I got over my fear of still being "in progress" in my 30s, or even 40s. Getting rejects in your second round surely does not feel good, but at least I hope you stop fretting about 'the clock ticking' or whatever else people say to reinforce that fear of straying from a normative vision of our lifespans.

I also want to chime in as a 33 year old applicant! I just got in to an amazing program (that obviously knows my withered old age! ) and am very happy. So I'll be 40 when I finish--so what?! A friend of mine once said, "You can be 40 with an amazing degree, or you can be 40 without a degree." Makes sense to me. We can do what we want--we shouldn't feel pressured to have EVERYTHING accomplished by 30. Life is too varied and too rich. To everyone in their early early 20s--if you feel like you need to take a break, do it! I waited over 10 years and I'm so glad that I did. We all have different time-tracks.

Anyway, best of luck to those on the 2nd & 3rd round (and 1st round, obvs)!

Edited February 19, 2011 by Raputa

[USTgrad]

Just to chime in about the age factor, I'm 30 and applying to PhD programs, and I do think I'm much more mature and focused now than I was when I was in my early 20s, and hence much more prepared to start the PhD. Also, where I'm currently doing my MA, most people enter the PhD in their mid to late 20s, and graduate in their early 30s.

Agreed (more chiming!). I'm 31. I didn't start my English coursework until 2007. My BA is from 2002 in Marketing (long story about opting for the more "practical" education, but only learning later that life is to short for an education that doesn't inspire you). My MA program has an age range of those just out of their BA's and some in their mid-30's just going on to PhD work. When there is constant discourse about raising the retirement age, it makes one think about doing what you want and what you need for the next 40 years...

[fall-11]

Agreed (more chiming!). I'm 31. I didn't start my English coursework until 2007. My BA is from 2002 in Marketing

Oh my goodness, you sound like my twin! I also did my BA in 2002, in a completely unrelated but "practical" field, and started my English coursework in 2007 by taking online correspondence courses (from good universities, not from Phoenix-type places, I mean). Then those profs became my recommenders when I applied to MA programs.

[augustquail]

I understand how you feel. I remember when I turned 24 - I was stuck in the business world at an entry-level job and hating it. It was supposed to be the start of the rest of my life and I truly knew I was in the wrong place. It took a lot of courage for me to quit my job and re-enter academia.

I also remember what it was like to be 24 - nearing the mid-20s mark - and feeling all this pressure to be doing something with yourself. So I wasn't offended by your "I'm 24 already I should just give up" comment at all. My parents were completely disappointed when I announced I was leaving my job and going back to school because they thought I was too old to be a student. I don't know if you're getting pressure from the outside, but usually that's the cause of so much mental anxiety.

Now I'm 28 and in the middle of a Master's program. It took over a year for my family to come to grips with the fact that this is what I want to do with my life (be an academic). I think they still are holding out hope that Ill "do something with myself" though. And you know, it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that it's okay to be in academia, and not only is it ok, it's awesome. And if I'm not accepted to a Ph.D program this year I'll most likely apply for a second Master's in a different but related field, which means Ill be 31 or older when I finally enter a Ph.D program.

You just have to remember that a Ph.D is the top, the climax. Why rush into it at 24? It'll be awesome if you're accepted this year, but if not, don't think it's the end. Being in academia is an experience; it's about learning, researching, teaching, discovering. Enjoy it while you're in it, and don't rush it. It took me a while to realize this, but now that I have, I'm appreciating it that much more. Everything has its time.

What you felt when you were 24 is probably what many of us mid-twentiers are actually feeling, but can't quite articulate. For me, it's not that i want to 'have a phd. by 32' or whatever, but that I am completely dissatisfied with the work i'm doing now and the place i'm living i (read: college job has become my post- MA job....), and I want to be able to start the next step of my life. If I don't get a ph.d., then I need to take some drastically different step (like go back to school for a professional degree, or start working in an office as someone's secretary), and I just don't want to do that. It's really the looming future that bothers me, the not knowing where i'll be in the next five years. And I'm also the kind of person that needs to be constantly working toward something--some project--that I feel is important and productive, etc. in order to want to get up in the morning.

And of course, it doesn't help that I have friends in other fields (mostly science) who will have their ph.ds by 29.....they don't quite get why an english ph.d might take 6 or 7 years.

[USTgrad]

Then those profs became my recommenders when I applied to MA programs.

Wow! Same here!! It's a small world. And I definitely agree that I am much more focused and prepared to express myself written/orally entering my MA program at the age I did. When I consider how much I thought I knew when I took my English coursework pre-MA, it's pretty intense. I had to enter the MA program to figure out I don't know anything!

[yank in the M20]

I'm 33 and like a lot of the other older people on here, got my BA in a completely unrelated subject and it wasn't until I was nearing 30 that I really took the idea of getting into academia seriously (before it seemed like a pipe dream). I moved abroad to work on a foreign language meanwhile auditing English lit classes to get recommendations for my MA, which I ended up applying for in the UK because it's a shorter program time and you can get into a much better University for less money and with less qualifications--it's very sink or swim; everyone is allowed to jump off the pier and whether you make it back out onto dry land is up to you. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in not doing my MA in the US, I now realize, if only because I didn't fully understand the application process and neither did my professors, but this site is hugely useful and I know that when I apply again next year (I've already gotten my three and only rejects) with enough time to do things properly, I'll have given it my best shot and we'll just have to see if I get in anywhere. I'll be on the job market by my early 40s, which means a minimum of 25 years in the field. That sounds like plenty of time to me, bearing in mind that I don't have the ambition to be some sort of superstar academic, next Eve Sedgewick or whatever. I know a few Brits that got their PhD by the time they were 24 or 25--they have three years of undergrad, one year MA, three years PhD--and they are just too young to be taken seriously for proper academic posts so they end up teaching at their old Uni and doing work on the side and pretty much just killing time until they are a bit older. Finishing your PhD in your early 30s sounds like the best possible time to finish and, like someone else said, we all come to this at different times and all have their advantages and disadvantages. Best to just make the most of your own situation, but if you're applying for PhDs because of a fear of the 'real world', I really caution you to take a few years out on the job market, enjoy your 20s, and reapply when you want to do a PhD because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else. Cheesy, but true. My classmates that had time out before their MAs, even just two or three years, were able to appreciate the experience for what it was not just where it would get them and not get as unnecessarily stressed as the brilliant but maybe too young 21 year olds.

[ZeeMore21]

I really do respect what everyone is saying, it really doesn't matter when you start....regardless of whether you are 22 or 30, if you are confident that you are prepared enough to start a PhD program, you should do so. I will be starting my PhD at 23, and although I do understand what others have said about the advantages of starting the PhD in your 30s, I feel more prepared than ever to start a program. It is never too early or too late to achieve your dreams! When you're ready, you're ready.