2009 Application: Religion-Theology-Philosophy of Religion

[academiccricket]

S&K,

I did my M.A. at Hebrew College (in Massachusetts). Fairly small school, lots of knowledgeable faculty though.

Jufarius87,

From what I've heard, an MDiv is easier (more or less...I don't know if anything in this process is "easy") to get accepted to because you aren't "expected" to have a language intensive background, since it is a more "ministry-focused" degree. I hope that helps ease your mind and nerves.

[demondeac]

So applications are in...for the most part. I am daily learning how unreliable the registrar-to-grad school connection can be. I had one program that was missing every transcript (3 schools, two copies each), though I have to suspect that this had more to do with disorganization at the grad school than the three registrars sending the transcripts. Letters of Recommendation also have a funny way of disappearing and needing resending.

So I am in the totally anxious waiting period. Every day I do what I call "phd fidgeting" and check gradcafe, applyingtograd, etc. If I'm extra neurotic I might check the status updates at my programs. What are you all doing? Anyone else waiting for the earlier programs (like Emory's invitation-only interview weekend)?

[academiccricket]

demondeac,

I hear you. So much. I've re-sent transcripts out at least 5 times, and sent two follow-up emails to recommenders. 2 months later, and I'm waiting on one transcript to get to UW-Madison for my application to be complete, and then one LOR to be sent to CUA for my application to be complete. The other five are finished and I am waiting ever so patiently.

[studyordie]

I still have one more app due (Villanova) and I'm glad because it's kind of keeping the neurosis at bay. It's not really working, however, so if anyone would like to distract themselves with frivolous gossip...

This is a couple steps removed from the source so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a few years back Vandy really liked an Ancient Near East person from my seminary and in consulting with her faculty advisor they said they had to know whether or not she would attend vandy if she were admitted because they do not use a wait-list and end up losing whatever spots they offer that are not accepted. If what I heard is true, is that not the stupidest thing you've ever heard? I don't personally have much hope for my application there so this is more curiosity than concern, but that sounds like a good way to miss out on great candidates.

[demondeac]

This is a couple steps removed from the source so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a few years back Vandy really liked an Ancient Near East person from my seminary and in consulting with her faculty advisor they said they had to know whether or not she would attend vandy if she were admitted because they do not use a wait-list and end up losing whatever spots they offer that are not accepted.

I would say it sounds a bit like that old game "telephone" The way it was explained to me by the graduate secretary there (who is probably the nicest I've met through this whole process) is that they try to make offers to the people with the best credentials who really fit in the program, so they don't anticipate many of them declining to go elsewhere. If they do decline (and some do), their spot is offered to another candidate (though a bit later in the process). If I remember correctly they are not allowed (by the Uni) to make more offers than they have funded fellowships, so this would mean that they would almost HAVE to pick folks who will attend or they will miss out by extending offers late in the game. With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if they made contact with a letter of recommendation writer with whom they were acquainted, to try and surmise how serious the student was about the program. If the student is likely going somewhere else, then they have to go with another student. It is interesting to see how university policies can affect this whole process.

Oh and if there are any Vandy adcomm lurkers out there...I'd totally go there! :mrgreen:

[achowa00]

All of my applications are in, sans the one-year Master's programs I'm applying to that wouldn't require moving. Those are due Feb. 1 and I just can't bring myself to do anything until right before the deadline, although after shelling out for overnight mailing on other app's, I should have learned better.

I'm not too nervous yet, as I've been too busy with the holidays and work to think TOO much about it, but I'm starting to spend more time on here which says something for the anticipation that's building. Eek.

Are people applying for outside funding? Other fellowships, etc? Is now the time to do that?

[AhabsLegs]

A friend of mine was just accepted to Emory. Not sure how he was informed, but I assume either a phone call or email given how fast the turn around was.

[demondeac]

The hammer has started to drop folks...two posts on the results for folks invited to Emory GDR's interview weekend. Both by email, one on January 21, the second on January 24. The fact that there is some lag between the two leaves a glint of hope that various sub-committees may email at different times than others. Still, I think I'm going go throw up now. :shock:

[theostudent]

I haven't seen too much about UK theology programs on here yet, but I was curious if anyone else is applying or has heard back already. I've been accepted to MTh programs at Aberdeen and Edinburgh (both of which have faculty and research strengths that greatly appeal to me). I've heard that getting accepted is the easy part (is that true?); since international students pay so much more, their tuition is used by the universities to fund PhDs.

Also, any advice about job prospects coming out of a British school?

[katanianQ]

I haven't seen too much about UK theology programs on here yet, but I was curious if anyone else is applying or has heard back already. I've been accepted to MTh programs at Aberdeen and Edinburgh (both of which have faculty and research strengths that greatly appeal to me). I've heard that getting accepted is the easy part (is that true?); since international students pay so much more, their tuition is used by the universities to fund PhDs.

Also, any advice about job prospects coming out of a British school?

Although my discipline is Lit, I would be interested in the responses here.. I got my M.Phil from a UK school and luckily secured a fulltime job after a month on the job market back in the US.. I think this might be a fluke though- the college I work at is quite small and the head of my dept travels around Europe all the time so he was quite familiar with my alma mater. I'm applying to some Ph.D programs in the UK as well and wonder if there is any stigma attached since many of the programs don't contain a taught component.

Any thoughts??

[demondeac]

I'm applying to some Ph.D programs in the UK as well and wonder if there is any stigma attached since many of the programs don't contain a taught component.

Any thoughts??

Many Americans may not be familiar with the UK's system; I know I wouldn't be if not for a few good friends who studied at Oxford. As far as the vacuous impressions that I have (as well as others) is that Aberdeen is a good place for philosophical theology, Oxford depends with whom you study, and a Cambridge degree can be had for the right price (I apologize, this really is just hearsay).

But really, apart from American ignorance (myself at the forefront) a UK degree is what you make of it, so if you put the effort in, publish accordingly, I'm sure your job search would go swimmingly, as they say.

On another note, anyone know if Emory has sent out all its invitations for the visitation weekend? I'm dying here knowing that they've sent at least some emails out!

[androidhu]

Hi guys,

I got a call from UVa that I got accepted to their MA/PhD program! (history of religions- buddhism)

I originally applied for masters degree, but they offered me that if I switch to MA/PhD they'll fund me.

Has anyone else heard back from UVa?

[demondeac]

I got a call from UVa that I got accepted to their MA/PhD program! (history of religions- buddhism)

Congratulations! It's a great program, so best of luck.

Has anyone else heard back from UVa?

That's a negative on my end. Could be the second de facto rejection this week. :?

[achowa00]

I'm jealous of those of you who are already hearing things...I'm being teased mercilessly by all of my schools.

Saturday, I received a giant packet from Drew that turned out to be a simple acknowledgment of my application and a catalog. Yesterday, I get emails from both Fordham (only a survey) and BC, inviting me to log into their online status check system. No info. And then yesterday, I came home to find a slim, letter-sized envelope from Drew. My heart sank. But, it turned out only to be yet another letter thanking me for my application.

Argh--everytime I see ANYTHING from these places, I'm reminded of how long I still have to wait.

[probingtheology]

Demondeac:

I don't think you should worry yet about UVA. That department will not call everyone all in one day...it is my assumption that the Ethics, Theology and Culture subdiscipline will be sorting through lots of very qualified applicants. If you have not heard from them say this time next month, then I might be worried. As for Emory, I'm not too sure about your odds there, I just don't know.

Congrats on the person accepted there already...it must be nice. It is a great program, a program I am hoping to get into myself

Anyone heard from UC-Santa Barbara or Columbia yet? I saw that Duke has begun to reject folks already....

[jonhenry]

FYI: I got my polite rejection from Duke U. today.

(waiting on McMaster U., Yale U., Notre Dame, UPenn)

[achowa00]

I'm assuming all of the talk about Duke refers to the Graduate Division of Religion and the Ph.D. Yes?

I applied for the Th.D. through the Divinity School and the deadline was only Jan. 15 so I can't imagine I'll hear anything from them for quite some time.

[theostudent]

Quick procedural question: anyone know if admissions committees generally make offers to both masters and doctoral students simultaneously? Or do PhDs come first, due to funding considerations/priorities, or for some other reason?

[demondeac]

It really all depends on the setup of the program.

Some will have funding allotted for both masters and PhD programs independently, so they will usually admit around the same time (and be less likely to make masters offers to PhD applicants)

Other big programs who have the "cash-cow" masters programs (Chicago, Harvard (I think), BC, etc.) admit masters students regardless of PhD admits, because it is in their best (read that financial) interest to have as many masters students at half tuition paying them serious money. No need to wait around in handing those out, though they will likely make Masters offers to those who were rejected from the PhD program (someone called this "we don't like you, but we like your money").

Some smaller programs (like my current philosophy program) make their waves of PhD offers (admit & funding), and if any funding is left over from people declining phds, they will award it later to Masters students they admitted without funding. This seems less common in religion programs, though.

It really depends...just think like you're the program and you're acting out of pure self interest; that's usually the best way to figure out what actually happens behind closed doors FYI...Emory GDR has definitely made all its initial offers as the interview weekend is in a week or so. If you are wait-listed it could take much longer....like late march.

[studyordie]

Thanks for the update on UVa and a big congrats.

If the conversation on UK schools isn't over I'll put in my two cents b/c I've spent countless hours looking into that option. I gave up b/c it's too hard to fund, UK people get the 1st go on funding, then EU people, then everybody else (Americans are among everybody else). From a few different proffs I respect I was told that if you want to work in the states get your Ph.D. in the states. Our programs have comps, their's don't, those tests and the corresponding coursework seem to be the main difference. That said- I wanted to study with certain people and so I was still going full steam ahead until I realized I would end up on the other side of the pond with a hungry wife and kid and no $$. If your spouse is an RN though, you could probably make it work.

[tshaunprice]

I agree with the last writer. I have a friend who got into the PhD program at Edinburgh last spring but he had had to defer for a year because he just can't get any funding.

[danielm43]

Thanks, studyordie and spock&kirk!

Studyordie, I appreciate your perspective on Baylor and the suggestion to have a strategy from the beginning for future work...seems like good advice. Also, thanks for the straightforward reply about the competitiveness of Chicago. It reminds me to temper my expectations with the reality that getting into any of these schools is a bit like winning the lottery.

What you said about Northern schools versus places like Vanderbilt and Emory regarding their perception of evangelical schools seems pretty insightful. I actually met with a Vanderbilt prof last year before starting the application process and he spent most of the meeting telling me how much I'd dislike Vanderbilt and how impossible it would be for me to thrive there...all of this without any knowledge of me beyond the fact that I was earning an M.A. from Talbot! Happily, that has not characterized all of my interactions with Vanderbilt, but I think it lends some support to your friend's assessment.

I can't say how great it is to find other people that are going through this process of anticipation/dread along with me! I think I'm the only current student from my school applying for a PhD Theology, so there's been a serious lack of camaraderie when it comes to this aspect of my life...an aspect which has completely eclipsed everything else.

One more question: anybody know much about Denver University-Iliff's joint PhD Program? Thoughts?

Thanks!

[studyordie]

Aaahhh- after celebrating the completion of my last app. tonight with a glass or three too much wine I couldn't help but post here:

danielm43- I know how you feel, I found this board a month or so back and it has been a great support/tool for me to get informed and vent at the same time. I know of one person who went to Iliff, now has a good tenure-track job, but has advised a friend of mine from the same field (NT) not to apply there. I will find out the specifics of his hesitations with his alma mater and post them here this week. One question though, from your posts thus far you seem to be a decent match for Princeton, why didn't you apply there? Also, I will share your experience with Vandy with the prof from whom I got the theory of northern and southern schools and their opposing views of evangelical applicants, he'll enjoy the confirmation.

To those of us who have gotten a rejection (explicit or not), though I haven't yet it's only a matter of time, and I will tell you what I tell myself: it only takes one acceptance to get where we want to be!

[danielm43]

Studyordie,

Congratulations on completing the last of your applications...such a great feeling! Thanks for your willingness to look into your friend's experience of Iliff. Whenever I'm researching schools I hit a point of wishing I could talk to someone who a) has firsthand knowledge of the school, and doesn't have a vested interest in making the school look good. Your friend's thoughts will be extremely valuable to me.

I started the application for Princeton, but the application itself sort of scared me away; for example, the questions about what I've published (nothing scholarly as of yet) made it seem that having published already was something of a prerequisite. Perhaps I was wrong, though, especially in light of the possibility that northern schools are more inclined to take students from evangelical schools a bit more seriously.

Best of luck to you, and thanks for the reminder that it only takes one acceptance!

[rollofthedice]

danielm43 said:

I started the application for Princeton, but the application itself sort of scared me away; for example, the questions about what I've published (nothing scholarly as of yet) made it seem that having published already was something of a prerequisite. Perhaps I was wrong, though, especially in light of the possibility that northern schools are more inclined to take students from evangelical schools a bit more seriously.

I thought I would toss my "two cents" into the discussion about northern and southern schools regarding evangelical students. (full disclosure: I am a former Emory masters student who almost went to Vandy).

I think it has less to do with a "Southern Bias" against evangelical students than it does with the prominent professors at those institutions. The reality at Emory in recent years was that most applicants wanted to work under Wendy Farley or Mark Jordan (the two most senior faculty members in theology). Ian McFarland is sympathetic to more confessional positions (as are some faculty members in Bible and History), but he just doesnt have the clout. As a result, the applicants who get the most support are the ones whose interests most align with Farley and Jordan, not necessarily McFarland or McDougall. However, with Jordan leaving soon for Harvard, the situation may become a little more balanced...maybe not.

I would assume the situation is similar at Vandy (though I can't speak from experience). I would assume, one way or another, that the perceived bias has more to do with the particular faculty members and the ways in which ones evangelicalism comes across in the application as opposed to a general prejudice against all students of that stripe.

All that being said, an evangelical student may find that they have only a few conversation partners at either institution.

Any way, best of luck.