Classmate FORGED letters of rec... What do I do?

[purplepepper]

I'm sure many of you know about what happened to the guy from Yale who forged many parts of his application and got accepted with a scholarship (of course forgery is a crime in itself, but accepting money based on fradulent claims really exacerbated the situation). if you want to read about it, there is an article in the NY times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/educa ... .html?_r=1

and there is another article i found in the stanford newspaper that talks about things like this as well

http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/ ... OnYaleScam

Anyway, didnt the OP already say that the dean was notified? What happened with that?

If I can add my $.02--notifying an official of a crime is not being a tattle tale. Not only does she commit forgery once by writing the letters saying that she is not who she is, but lies on the application when signing (or checking) the box that the recommenders' letters comes from the recommenders. i fyou read the articles, if the unviersity finds out, not only will it call for expulsion,but if she is offered money and accepts it, the university is in the right to press charges.

but then again, the articles do say that this kind of stuff happens more often than one may think. but why gamble with your future?

[royalt3240]

The girl that forged the letters is an idiot- why would she tell other people what she did? She won't make it out here much longer without a MAJOR hiccup.

[hermionephd]

The ethical thing to do is to go to her, express your concerns, and ask that she come up with a solution that involves coming clean or having those letters shredded. Only after you have attempted to resolve this informally should you go to a higher authority. Having already attempted to resolve the situation will impress those you go to.

[hermionephd]

I posted my first reply after reading your initial post, but after reading through the entire thread I have to say that as a whole I am very disappointed in how many (but definitely not most) of the posters would deal with this situation.

Let it be? Come on, that's not an option. This girl didn't run a stop sign when there were clearly no cars around; she knowingly forged signatures, fabricated letters, and appears willing to accept money based on these documents. This is NOT okay. I don't care if it's "a rat race" or if "nothing will happen, anyway," this is about doing our part to make the world a better freakin' place by holding each other accountable.

Go straight to the authorities? It sucks that you got this advice and then apparently used it, because you shouldn't have to be in a position where the authority makes YOU feel guilty and treats YOU like maybe you're the liar, because you shouldn't and you aren't. I truly think that attempting to solve this informally, with the condition set in place and known by her that you would eventually go to the authority figure if need be, would have helped.

Good luck, and I'm sorry she put you in this position.

[lotf629]

I think that hermionephd has given really wise advice.

[dans595]

Can't read all of these, just thought I'd point out that arguments like "It's OK to do whatever it takes to be competitive" to discourage the OP from "tattling" (haven't used that one since like 2nd grade) are weak. If person X is justified in doing something illegal and despicable to try to beat you... you are certainly a fortiori justified in doing something legal and arguably despicable to try to beat them.

It is not despicable to give her a dose of her own medicine, i.e., to be equally competitive. It'd be dumb for you to break the law, but not dumb to have one of the people competing for graduate spots thrown on her ear in a legal and risk-free way. I don't think you necessarily have a moral responsibility to do anything, but you should for your own sake.

I can't believe some people are calling you a tattle-tell on a graduate admissions forum! Remarkable. I seriously had no idea that you could apply to graduate school midway through elementary school.

EDIT: The poster who said to try to change her mind has a good idea, assuming she hasn't already sent them, which I thought you said she had...

[StudyMom]

Unethical behavior is unethical behavior. If someone is willing to forge letters to get into grad school how likely is it that that person will 'borrow' other people's work once they are in? Plagerism is a big problem in academia and it affects the status and credibility of all our work. How sad that some of you would think that it is 'tattling' to report such behavior. True, it will make for uncomfortable relations with the forger but really, do you want to be 'friends' with such a person? If she is willing to forge, how real are her grades? Perhaps she cheats, as some of you have intimated that you do. How can you? I guess you feel the ends justify the means but academia is about the process -- the learning, the research, the testing of theory -- and cheating, forgery and plagerism have no place here.

Congratulations for reporting the forger!

[Minnesotan]

Ewwww..."cultural thing"??? Maybe it's a cultural thing to call it a cultural thing. Do you realize how dangerously close you are to violating the very tenous boundary between "just an observation" and racism with that comment? One person's difference of opinion does not sum up the position of that person's entire culture. Nor are you in any position to chastise that person for maintaining it. Not everyone sees this as the uber-heinous event that it's being made out to be. Certainly there's an ethical violation here, but not everyone believes that the scale is appropriate to warrant the kind of responses that have been suggested. This is, in the eyes of many people from many cultures, an infraction much closer to ripping off a mattress tag than say something that might be considered (ahem) hate speech by some. Even more importantly, I don't think anyone here has argued that what this girl has done is not wrong, but the volume of vitriol directed at her is somehow a bit out of whack. The holier-than-thou tone and overall distortion of perception is what many of the people who are advocating the original poster chill a bit are having trouble with. This witch hunt mentality toward a person none of us has ever met and probably never will is really disturbing. How do you even know whether the alleged evil-doer went through with her plan? Don't you think you ought to get her side of the story before amping up your own indignation toward her alleged crime? I think you might feel a little less superior if you were to find out that none of what's been said about her is true. If this situation genuinely bothers you as much as you conveyed in your post you may want to rethink your future. There are lots of screwy, underhanded, unscrupulous people in the world and you will, invariably, end up working with some of them so get over it and as one previous poster suggested, work on yourself.

Btw, you can't be exempt from wrong-doing, you can be exempt from penalty. Get your syntax straight.

There is no mature way to respond to this post. It will only serve to bring the entire conversation down to the poster's level.

On a related note, why can't there ever be a heated discussion among academics without someone standing on a table, shouting "RACISM!," "SEXISM!," or NAZISM!"? You would think we would have developed more complex ways of seeing the world by now. But, I guess when you spend all day looking for pink elephants, you're bound to start seeing them everywhere. *sigh*

[UKbound]

Interesting, though I kinda wonder whether you'd take those comments the same way if they were made in reference to an American? An Asian? A Jew? Any person representing a group of color? A very clear, and quite direct, reference was made regarding the attitude of Brits, questioning their tolerance of ethical indiscretions (the comment wasn't directed at UKgrad). I, for one, think that comment is pretty clearly "culturally biased" and we all know cultural bias is really just a veiled form racism. I don't think your reply is terribly mature either, your little rant looks a little nutty even. All the things you brought up in your mini rant are real problems, and I actually envy you your glibness on the matter. I wish all of us could be so relaxed about these issues. There are some very good points that probably should be considered in American Woman's post. Wouldn't it be nice if Americans, as a culture, could try to see from others point-of-view on occasion. Just for kicks maybe...

[solefolia]

The "cultural difference" thing was more of a reference toward the very relaxed, "Who cares?" attitude of the poster (UKGraduate). I've got Brit friends who I've been puzzled with when they have similar attitude toward issues. It was not meant to be a dig or indirect insult. I realize it was ignorant generalizing to even make the comment and I'm willing to admit that and apologize for it.

It really was a silly, innocent comment made because the attitude reminded me of some Brit friends of mine. There's a point where you have to consider context and intention, rather than automatically assuming racism/sexism/etc. At any rate, I'll try to be more clear or less generalizing next time. But to have those two words equated to racism (how I could possibly know the racial identity of any poster on this forum is beyond me) or hate speech baffles me, though.

As far as Americans seeing other points of view... As a couple other posters have said, this goes even beyond an ethical concern, it's just plain illegal. And I think the issue most people have with "UKGraduate"'s post is that he insulted the OP for their actions. Reporting a crime should not be looked down upon and I would hope that other points-of-view would feel the same way.

[Minnesotan]

Criminals always attempt to deflect the attention toward someone else. "I endorse fraud, but what you said was racist." It's telling that the latter (and completely subjective) charge is what our British friend clings to when the issue comes to a head.

I'm sorry, but even if what Solefelia had uttered was racist, how would that make your encouraging others to commit forgery and fraud any different?

(For the record, what she said is not considered racist or "hate speech" on these fora.)

[lauras]

I have to agree with the Minnesotan.

It's not being nosy or a tattle-tale to hold people to a standard of conduct. If only bankers and hedgefund managers did this, we would not be on the verge of a depression. If people spoke up sooner, the Governor of Illinois would not have had the chance to attempt to revoke an 8 million dollar grant to Children's Hospital because he didn't get a contribution to his campaign fund.

Graduate School is a small community. 8-20 people enter a grad program at a time. If one of them is unscrupulous and unqualified, they will drag down that entire department in terms of intellectual contribution as well as morale. Financial support for the arts and humanities is scarce. Even if this person flunks out in 2 or 3 years, she's taken scarce funds and a place in a faculty she doesn't deserve at the expense of a more qualified, honest and motivated student.

...and of course, it's unfair. I took graduate classes at night just to make contacts with faculty and get referrences. I spent 1800.00 on classes this semester and almost 4,000 dollars and 10 vacation days to go on a spring break trip with my Hellenism class. Of course, I was interested in these things in their own right, but I specifically spent more money to take the class for graduate credit, not the cheaper undergraduate option, just to get face time with the professor. In the process, I became a better applicant, broadened my horizens and maybe I'll be a better class mate to 7-19 other grad students next year, but should I have just forged the letter instead?

Academia is a small community and each individual and their values will degrade or envigorate that community in very high concentrations. The girl who forged her letters, she won't be one student in a 200 student lecture who never speaks in class, she'll be 12% of the entire entering graduate class. If she wants her attitudes and actions not to matter, she should join a bigger, more anonymous community and learn to enjoy her cubicle.

[UKbound]

It would be nice if we could keep track of who we're talking about. Our "British friend" never weighed in on the matter of racism, I did. I'm an American, and I don't endorse fraud OR racism. I think this whole topic has gotten kind of out of hand. No one, NO ONE, endorsed forgery or committing fraud. I, personally, find the whole sordid business very disappointing. The original problem, the way certain posters responded, and even the misrepresentations on the part of still others is really sad. Not one single person on either side of this supposed problem has spoken out in favor of fraud (UKgrad's point, as I took it, was essentially 'stop worrying about others, take care of your own stuff'). Yet, we suddenly have accusations of endorsement of fraud. WTF is that about? What's really disturbing to some of us is the way people have argued against this girl's actions. Slurs, slights, and insinuations should have no place in a discussion between educated adults. We all seem to have forgotten what the original poster presented to us.

For starters, there hasn't been a forgery (if these fraudulent letters were submitted online, not even the signatures were forged). The pathetic girl in question wrote her own letters of support and put someone else's name on them. A crappy thing to do, indeed, and definitely fraudulent...but the reason we all get so up in arms about plagiarism is we don't want others taking credit for our hard work. That is why plagiarism is such a serious offense in academia. This girl wrote her own letters, supporting what sounded like an otherwise very solid applications, and "signed" someone else's name. Minnesotan and others who keep using terms like forgery, saying that those of us who saw the earlier crack about Brits as inappropriate are somehow supporters of the behavior, don't seem to be able to keep straight exactly what has a occurred. There's been no forgery, it's a case of fraud, and nobody approves of what this sad sack did, so let's knock off the mudslinging. Being loud won't make the things you've said any less inaccurate or inapplicable.

[lauras]

From: http://www.uslawbooks.com/books/forgery.htm

What is the definition of FORGERY?

The Black's Law, American College, and Random House dictionaries along with the court citations below define FORGERY as:

The making, drawing, or altering a document with the intent to defraud. A signature made without the person knowing of or consenting to it.

The law and the courts say:

The Modern Penal Code (MPC sec. 224.1) states that a person is guilty of forgery if:

a) a actor or person alters any writing of any person,

makes, completes, executes, authenticates, issues, or transfers any writing so that it purports to be an act of another who did not authorize the act or to have been at the time or place or in a numbered sequence other than was in fact the case, or to be a copy of an original when no such original existed; or

c) utters any writing which he knows to be forged.

"Forgery is a crime when it includes the representation of handwriting of another and the act of uttering as true and genuine any forged writing knowing the same to be forged with intent to prejudice, damage, and defraud any person."

State v. May 93 Idaho 343, 461 P. 2d 126, 129.

"Crime of forgery is committed when one makes or passes a false instrument with the intent to defraud, and the element of loss or detriment is immaterial."

People v. McAffey, 182 Cal. App.2d 486, 6 Cal. Rptr. 333,337

"The false making of an instrument, which purports on the face of it to be good and valid for purposes for which it was created, with design to defraud any person or persons."

State v. Goranson, 67 Wash.2d 456, 408 P.2d 7,9.

[lauras]

...so when you learn that a classmate has forged her letters of recommendation, should you tell someone?

In my opinion, yes.

[Minnesotan]

I registered just so I could respond to this person.

It's a rat race baby. If you think for one minute that you're gonna get ahead in life by following all of the rules and being a nosy tattletale, you are in for a rude awakening.

I can't assure you that the professor you went to speak to will look into this, but I can assure you that you have now been given the title of 'Nosy Knob' by said professor.

Have you ever lied? Cheated on a test?

If not, maybe you should put the book down for a minute and go have a pint...live a little. I can't handle people like you. Social Police. It's not like this girl has a 2.0.

Rant over.

Sorry, UKbound, but I consider this attitude a clear endorsement of nonfeasance. Since you followed up on UKgraduate's post, supporting the shift of topic from fraud/forgery and academic integrity to perceptions of racism, that is what created the confusion.

Either way, you're both wrong, and kinda funny smelling. Pffft!

[UKbound]

Minnesotan, your obnoxiousness is second only to your obtuseness. I didn't shift the topic to racism or anywhere for that matter, American Woman did. I didn't support the act of fraud, and neither did UKgrad (thank you for reposting the post ...it's quite clear that this person thinks the original poster is a busy body, and is simply going out of his way to point that out...still no "YOU SHOULD COMMIT FORCERGY AND OTHER ACTS OF FRAUD" message in there). We may be stinky, buy you sir are a blockhead. I genuinely hope you pay closer attention to your coursework than you have the actual content of this thread. :wink:

[ampersand]

For starters, there hasn't been a forgery (if these fraudulent letters were submitted online, not even the signatures were forged).

I disagree. This girl may not have taken a pen and imitated someone else's signature on a piece of paper, but I'm willing to bet that online letters of recommendation have some sort of box to check at the end certifying that the information in the letter is true to the author's best knowledge (all of my applications had a similar box at the end that had me certify that the information I had provided was correct). Checking this box counts as an "electronic signature." Whether someone else's name is signed on paper or the box is checked online, it's all the same to me and it's all fraud and forgery.

By the way, we haven't heard from the OP in a while. Any updates/further incriminating statements? Sometimes it's just so fun to watch a train-wreck situation like this play out.

[Minnesotan]

Minnesotan, your obnoxiousness is second only to your obtuseness. I didn't shift the topic to racism or anywhere for that matter, American Woman did. I didn't support the act of fraud, and neither did UKgrad (thank you for reposting the post ...it's quite clear that this person thinks the original poster is a busy body, and is simply going out of his way to point that out...still no "YOU SHOULD COMMIT FORCERGY AND OTHER ACTS OF FRAUD" message in there). We may be stinky, buy you sir are a blockhead. I genuinely hope you pay closer attention to your coursework than you have the actual content of this thread. :wink:

Saying that if you have not lied or cheated on a test, you should "live a little" certainly is an endorsement of actions that break with academic integrity standards, including the case of fraud we are discussing (and to which the quoted post is a response!).

Reading comprehension: get some.

[vanasme]

Wow... this has really spun out of control...

Anyways, the only thing I did was report it to the head of my department. I didn't want to be a "tattle-tell" at other universities because we applied to some of the same places. What I MIGHT do is let the University that accepts her know (anonymously) and let them deal with it. What would REALLY set me over the edge is if she is accepted somewhere that I am denied...

So I guess I'm just playing the waiting game right now.

[michaelglawson]

UKgraduate is obviously a dishonest reprobate him/herself. Only someone equally guilty of such an offense could paint one who exposes this crime as 'uptight' or merely in need of inebriated relaxation.

There is a very clear reason why the concerned person should do what she can to make it known to the authorities at both schools that her acquaintance is forging letters: the girl is, quite obviously, not the sort of person that any graduate program wants, because she is intellectually dishonest. One would never know if an idea she published were her own or plagiarized. Even if these grad schools don't know they don't want this gir, they'll find out eventually. This sort of vice doesn't persist for long without revealing itself. The result is one or more of the following: some infinitely more worthy applicant will have been denied admission to the program because this liar was admitted instead, the reputations of the teachers in whose name she forged letters will be tarnished among the faculty of the school to which she is accepted (since it will seem that they wrote glowing letters for a miscreant), or the school that she came from will gain a sort of subliminally bad reputation among those who know about their dishonest student. This girl has an obligation to tell those who would be interested in knowing. Doing what's right here will only earn her a bad reputation among slimy, unprincipled people like UKgraduate, and who cares what they think?

[lauras]

Agreed.

[miratrix]

I think waiting to see where she gets in and THEN turn her in to the grad schools is a pretty devious thing to do. Either turn her in now, or don't, but waiting until she's already been accepted comes off as trying to twist the knife and doesn't reflect that well on you for sitting on the information for months.

[MAN]

If you wanted to be really devious, here's what to do:

Never tell any one about the girl. Then, hopefully, she gets admitted to a prestigious program. Then she goes through the program and does really well. After school she lands a job that pays some big bucks (or has some high-powered connections). That's when you come in. Do a little blackmailing, make some decent money, and have a good time all around. :twisted:

This plan might not be for everyone (like the people saying that forging letters of recommendation is wrong). If you are less scrupulous, it may be an option.

Note: I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I probably wouldn't follow this plan. :?

[lauras]

...Or you can wait until she's about to marry the man of her dreams, and when the priest asks if there are any objections, you can rip off your ugly bridesmaid's costume, revealing your true identity, and read aloud from a collection of signed affidavits from her old professors, stating that they don't recommend her and they never have.

(or just call the department).