rufzilla Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Sorry, but I think ranting on the OP's supposed jealousy and blah blah blah is stupid. Yeah, maybe s/he is motivated by her jealousy towards the girl and her seemingly better chances at getting into the same graduate programs, but I don't think she is wrong in any way for reporting it to her department head. Should she be devious and underhanded about it waiting until the girl gets into graduate school? Hell to the no, but its a good thing that she alerted her department head and the department head should notify his staff, past and present (or any professors that the girl had taken classes from) that this kind of action occurred. Even if she is a good student wrong is wrong. What she did was unethical and the professors who "wrote" her letters should be notified that their names were signed to something that they did not approve of or know about. Basically, in my eyes, that's identity theft -- which is a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplepepper Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I've been following this story since the beginning, and all things aside: Does anyone have any information on what happened? Did the girl get in? Updates please!!! I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leahlearns Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I don't remember who it was (there are so many posts...), but whomever it was who said that the girl who did this must be really full of it is right on in my opinion. I think turning her in (somehow) is the right thing to do. But this all really makes me wonder if there is something else in her past she's hiding??? Lots of applicant are socially awkward and afraid the world will come to an end if they aren't accepted. I have a really hard time believing that's what this is about. I'd bet big bucks this isn't the first time she has engaged in this sort of despicable behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefrightfulmuse Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I'd have to disagree with the OP revealing this to anyone. The OP gave their word not to tell and then broke that word. I personally find the op's actions more detestable than the person forging letters. Not only did they give their word and go against it, but they did so as a coward, behind the person's back. If someone is going to break their word, they should at least have the courage to tell the person up front and give them a chance to turn themselves in. The forged letters is definitely no bueno. Putting someone else's name on something they did not write is a direct assault on that person's character. Nevertheless, I still stand by my above statement. Personally, I've always thought the process of recommendation letters was idiotic. When a person applies to grad school, it should be just that person applying...not that person and three other people. I think it's terribly inconsiderate for institutions to expect potential applicants to inconvenience other people by requesting they take time out of their day to type up letters for programs they themselves aren't applying to. They should accept names, phone numbers, and email addresses of three references and then get off their butts and contact those people if they so desire. That would be far more ethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigwm6 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 If the person that wrote the LOR is stupid enough to tell someone about it, then they deserve to get caught. I have no sympathy to people who cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NachoConnoisseur Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I'm in the camp of saying something. Two things pop into my head. The first, will this kind of behavior end at letters of rec, or will this person continue using deceitful practices when they want something? The second thing is, it's not just the OP who is impacted, but all the people who are also applying for the forger's program. It's hard enough trying to get in, please let it at least be a semi-fair competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liszt85 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I registered just so I could respond to this person. It's a rat race baby. I guess the same argument (that this is a rat race) could be used as a valid reason to go ahead and be a telltale! And I agree with you..its a rat race. Its not the case that the most deserving people always get into the best grad positions. Depends on how you project yourself on your applications. Also like you said, its a rat race and all's fair in love and war. So go ahead..inform the authorities, I see nothing wrong with it! LORs and SOPs are things that can be used to make up for bad grades, etc on the application. If you have a competitor who has excellent grades AND also forges LORs, its unfair to you (from your point of view). So no hard at all in informing the authorities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liszt85 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 They should accept names, phone numbers, and email addresses of three references and then get off their butts and contact those people if they so desire. That would be far more ethical. Try doing this when you are on an ad com with 600 applications to process within 1-2 months. That's 10 applications per day (if you're iven 2 months to do the job), so that's contacting 30 professors (and take into account availability of the profs) a day. Not exactly an enviable job..and its not like they're getting paid extra for it. They have to teach and do research and do everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liszt85 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Sorry, but I think ranting on the OP's supposed jealousy and blah blah blah is stupid. Yeah, maybe s/he is motivated by her jealousy towards the girl and her seemingly better chances at getting into the same graduate programs, but I don't think she is wrong in any way for reporting it to her department head. Should she be devious and underhanded about it waiting until the girl gets into graduate school? Hell to the no, but its a good thing that she alerted her department head and the department head should notify his staff, past and present (or any professors that the girl had taken classes from) that this kind of action occurred. Even if she is a good student wrong is wrong. What she did was unethical and the professors who "wrote" her letters should be notified that their names were signed to something that they did not approve of or know about. Basically, in my eyes, that's identity theft -- which is a crime. And being so brilliant, the girl could go on to forge data and stuff in her research..she could get so good at it that it might even go unnoticed. Its not exactly a service to science that such students should be allowed to continue on unquestioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyabean Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Do what you would do if you found out you were being secretly taped for a Dateline "What Would YOU Do Special." If you would be ashamed of keeping quiet then, by all means, relieve yourself of the burden. While I understand everyone has different worldviews I am dismayed at the idea of not becoming involved when someone is doing something potentially criminal or dangerous. The whole "don't snitch" schema in popular culture is...not good, IMO. What happens to a civilized society if no one every gets involved in the world around them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyabean Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Sadly, I think the poster above is right. If this girl has the mettle to be successful in grad school she'll do it. If she forged those letters because she doesn't, she'll find out soon enough. I really don't see the need to say anything one way or the other. You're not her instructor, you're not her adviser, and you're not her competition. It's really sad that someone can achieve what this girl has without finding a single person to support her application, but I don't think you're doing yourself, or anyone else for that matter, any favors by wasting your time ratting this girl out. If she doesn't have what it takes to get through grad school, she won't. Her personality clearly hasn't gotten in her way thus far. If her writing sample or personal statement were plagiarized I think the situation would be different. The fact that she feels she's the only one capable of supporting her application (which means she doesn't have much faith in either her instructors or herself) puts a different bent on the whole situation. Technically, she's not stealing anyone's work. She's putting words in someone's mouth, on her own behalf. At the end of the day, the whole thing is just really sad. I can't imagine what it would be like to go your entire undergrad career without getting to know even one instructor well enough to ask for a letter. Can you imagine what her internal life must be like... :| I wonder if you would feel differntly if it was your name, reputation and career this girl essentially stole by forging your signature? It's not just immoral, I am pretty sure its illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppermint.beatnik Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Why was this thread resurrected? It was a hassle last year. fuzzylogician 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppermint.beatnik Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I like to look at what everyone else is looking at, so I watch the topics you guys are viewing. Quite a number of people were viewing this one, so I checked it out. Had an opinion, so I gave my 2 cents. People were really upset about it, from what I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudlark Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Zombie thread! Run away! expressionista, LateAntique, fuzzylogician and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Zombie thread! Run away! Yes! I hated it last year! 0100111000 and fuzzylogician 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplepepper Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 No one ever gave any updates. boo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grad_wannabe Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) I know a guy who is thinking about doing this very thing. I ran into him at the mall a couple weeks ago (apparently I live in a nineties movie), and he asked what I was up to. I said, "I'm going to the stationery store to get thank-you cards for my rec letter writers. They were all so awesome and giving. How 'bout you? How goes your apps?" (knowing that we have at least one, possibly two overlapping schools.) He paled and said, "Not good, not good. Practically all of my writers flaked on me. Pretty shitty. At this point I'm thinking about just writing my own letters and signing their names to them." I was floored and only managed to say, "Gee, man, maybe that's not such a good idea ... uh I gotta go." I have no idea what he decided to do. EDIT: Oh dang I didn't even notice the dates on this. Bah Ghost of Threads Past! Edited January 15, 2010 by grad_wannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisnieski Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) IMO, the proper course of action would have been to confront the young woman who forged the letters, explain to her the consequences if she's caught (and, of course, the simple moral wrongness of forging letters of recommendation), and urge her to withdraw her applications for the year. I would not have notified the department for the simple reasons that (a) it is probably beyond their ability to prove in a nonintrusive manner, and ( it is probably beyond their willingness to punish. Moreover, consequences should follow logically from their actions. If she gets in trouble because her actions were reported by you, rather than having been discovered by the schools to which she applied, then the consequences will have followed not from her forgery but from her having told others of the forgery -- which means the lesson she will learn will not be to avoid dishonesty but to avoid telling others of that dishonesty. Which, of course, will do nothing to help her or others in the long run. Then again I am of the firm opinion that people have an obligation to provide others with morally sound instruction before acting as agents of cosmic justice or whatever. EDIT: Oh jeez, zombie thread. Guess that's what I get for not reading dates... or to the end of 7 page threads! Edited January 15, 2010 by swisnieski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacib Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 It was not my intent to upset anyone. Issues of ethics really are fascinating. Haha, that the quoted post has a -3 reputation. Also, how do you creepily see what topics others are following? I only discovered the "find topics" and "find posts" thing in our profiles recently. Do I have to be "friends" with people to see what topics people are following? By the way, the latest visitors thing is SUPER creepy. I just totally added it to my profile. Yes, I know this is off topic... but the topic is out of date so I refuse to feel guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) Haha, that the quoted post has a -3 reputation. Also, how do you creepily see what topics others are following? I want to know that too! It's so creepy, as well as annoying that old/irrelevant posts are needlessly brought back to life. I bet a lot of people read some/all of this thread before realizing it's from last year. And I bet that's why the post you quoted has a bad reputation. ETA: Ugh. I wish I didn't know this forum allowed so much creepy stalking. I think I might sign in anonymously from now on. Edited January 15, 2010 by fuzzylogician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melusine Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I bet a lot of people read some/all of this thread before realizing it's from last year. yep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWinter Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Sounds like a horrible situation. It's absolutely unethical what the girl has done with forging the letters but sadly, I cannot say that you are in a great position. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you don't report it, she'll go ahead and perhaps cheat her way through admissions. If you do tell on her, it will come back to haunt you and the girl will eventually come to know that it was you because probably you're the only one she told. So you're in a horrible position... I just think your advisor is the best way to do this, rather than going straight to the department chair. It's just a sticky situation for all and everyone. Probably the department chair had question marks in his eyes because this is SO WAY BEYOND UNETHICAL. I can't even imagine how this girl had the guts to do it. So I'm guessing she turned in hard copies of all the letters and turned them in? No online LORs. I feel that she's going to get stuck in her own web of lies because they probably call the professors sometimes and verify. At least, they know from online LORS that they have the official addresses of the professors. With letters, perhaps they verify? Karma has its way. Keep us posted on whether she's gotten into any schools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzers Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 dont be a snitchy little loser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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