Applying for PhD just to get Masters for FREE

[President]

How difficult would it be to "pull off" this plan?

If a software engineer works for about three years, and decides that he'd like to have a masters degree in order to bypass Human Resource screenings for new recruits, then couldn't he just apply for a fully funded MS/PhD program?

I plan on working like 20 hours a week without the department noticing, and after the MS requirements are finished, I just drop out, saying a PhD is NOT for me. Free masters, additional work experience (probably at a start-up).

[OH YEAH]

My adviser and colleagues are so cool. I couldn't imagine doing this to them. A PhD is a very "personal" thing. I'd feel very manipulative and I would feel like I was letting the team down if I dropped out. The process is tough for us students, but it is also tough for advisers: they are putting time, money, and energy into us. We take a gamble on picking a school, hoping that our advisers are supportive of our ideas, and at the same time, our advisers are taking a gamble on us.

Before starting my PhD program I would have been cool with this, but now that I know what it is like, I wouldn't recommend others try a stunt like this. It's a real jerk move.

[President]

My adviser and colleagues are so cool. I couldn't imagine doing this to them. A PhD is a very "personal" thing. I'd feel very manipulative and I would feel like I was letting the team down if I dropped out. The process is tough for us students, but it is also tough for advisers: they are putting time, money, and energy into us. We take a gamble on picking a school, hoping that our advisers are supportive of our ideas, and at the same time, our advisers are taking a gamble on us.

Before starting my PhD program I would have been cool with this, but now that I know what it is like, I wouldn't recommend others try a stunt like this. It's a real jerk move.

As a person with a conscience, I totally understand that there'd be emotional ramifications associated with carrying out this plan. That's why it's so important for me to remain detached from my advisors and strictly work out getting my "breadth" requirements (and hence my MS requirements) out of the way. I'm interested in the research that I've done, but a lot of the time, I just don't care about it.

After all, my conscience doesn't pay the bills - money does. I could save about $30K in MS tuition expenses, get about $20K in stipend funding, and another decent sum of money from developing part-time. That's a potential $70K saved in direct and opportunity costs. Hence, aside from the ethical concerns of this diabolical plan, what are some possible stumbling blocks? Do MS/PhD programs prohibit first year students from working on software projects part-time? Or is it just a largely discouraged practice? Most importantly, How do advisors generally react to first year MS/PhD students that rarely contact them?

[the poisoned pawn]

As a person with a conscience, I totally understand that there'd be emotional ramifications associated with carrying out this plan. That's why it's so important for me to remain detached from my advisors and strictly work out getting my "breadth" requirements (and hence my MS requirements) out of the way. I'm interested in the research that I've done, but a lot of the time, I just don't care about it.

After all, my conscience doesn't pay the bills - money does. I could save about $30K in MS tuition expenses, get about $20K in stipend funding, and another decent sum of money from developing part-time. That's a potential $70K saved in direct and opportunity costs. Hence, aside from the ethical concerns of this diabolical plan, what are some possible stumbling blocks? Do MS/PhD programs prohibit first year students from working on software projects part-time? Or is it just a largely discouraged practice? Most importantly, How do advisors generally react to first year MS/PhD students that rarely contact them?

If you're a U.S citizen, you can go out and work for a company 1-2 years, most of them will pay for your masters tuition. If you're an international student, you can seek for scholarships, or work for several years to save up money for the MS program.

For the trick that you're trying to do: you're not the only one who does that. I know a lot of people who do so which make me really pissed because it kills or severely reduces my chance of getting in schools that I like. But I will answer part of your question here: for MS/PhD program, you have to work as a TA or a RA in order to be paid. If you don't contact with any professor and don't do research, then you have to work as a TA (will consume a lot of time). Unless you have a fellowship, to be funded, you have to work 20 hours for the department.

[Amogh]

As a person with a conscience, I totally understand that there'd be emotional ramifications associated with carrying out this plan. That's why it's so important for me to remain detached from my advisors and strictly work out getting my "breadth" requirements (and hence my MS requirements) out of the way. I'm interested in the research that I've done, but a lot of the time, I just don't care about it.

After all, my conscience doesn't pay the bills - money does. I could save about $30K in MS tuition expenses, get about $20K in stipend funding, and another decent sum of money from developing part-time. That's a potential $70K saved in direct and opportunity costs. Hence, aside from the ethical concerns of this diabolical plan, what are some possible stumbling blocks? Do MS/PhD programs prohibit first year students from working on software projects part-time? Or is it just a largely discouraged practice? Most importantly, How do advisors generally react to first year MS/PhD students that rarely contact them?

There have been a lot of cases of late where the departments will ask you to pay back all the money they invested in you and then only leave. As a Phd student, a lot of places do not allow you to work anywhere else at all from what iv noticed. Also professors are well connected people. They could just stall your degree or give you the damned degree but spoil ur recruitment chances anywhere through their vast networks. I would advise you to not attempt this at all as the PhD seats are few and are exclusively meant for people interested in research. So if you do get admitted somewhere, you'v almost dickblocked someone who might have actually been interested.

[Bukharan]

OK. I am sorry for saying this (not really, I am not sorry at all) but the very idea of pulling this off is evil.

This in unfair to the potential adviser and the rest of the faculty, and this is deeply unfair to the 'serious' applicant who will miss out on his/her Ph.D. position because of your 'plan'.

So, technically, you can try and pull it off. We leave in the free state after all. Ethically, I would say you cannot and should not do this.

(You can apply for Master's degrees. You know that, right?)

[nvseal]

I would agree with what others are saying. While I get what you are saying about saving money and all, if you are accepted and a school funds you they are assuming that you at the time of the acceptance are planning an pursing a Phd in good faith -- that is why they are giving you their money. If you really aren't then you are kind of stealing from them as well as taking the place of someone more interested.

[President]

First of all guys, I lied - it looks like I really DON'T have a conscience compared to some of you. But think about it, I could spend $70 at a really, really nice restaurant 1,000 times with the money earned/saved.

But you guys raise some good points - I think that the university assumes a good faith attempt at pursuing a PhD, and if my actions don't convince them that this is the case for me, then I could get in some big trouble. I can see that professors *might* have some reach in industry. But let me say that the WHOLE point of this plan is NOT to get caught. There are people who legitimately quit their program and leave with an MS after just one year. I just have to appear to be one of them.

-But what do you guys think professors would say if I go ahead and invest my twenty hours of TA, 12 credits of coursework, and then do another twenty hours of software development at the same time?

-I do have research experience, and I can continue to pursue one last LPU and one last conference on it while doing my 1.5 year MS.

Any other insights that some of you might have that would enable people like me to have an easier time doing this? Thanks.

[President]

OK. I am sorry for saying this (not really, I am not sorry at all) but the very idea of pulling this off is evil.

This in unfair to the potential adviser and the rest of the faculty, and this is deeply unfair to the 'serious' applicant who will miss out on his/her Ph.D. position because of your 'plan'.

So, technically, you can try and pull it off. We leave in the free state after all. Ethically, I would say you cannot and should not do this.

(You can apply for Master's degrees. You know that, right?)

The whole point is to get a Master's degree for free. In the U.S., those are very rare. I know this is off-point in a way, but tHe U.S. education system is pretty unfair if you ask me. Now we have people undergoing indentured servitude, not for a house/mortgage, but for a life-long repayment of college loans. We have English majors paying $30K a year without any prospects for having a real job.

edited:

Whether or not the system is unfair (and I agree with you that it's especially rough on Ph.D students in fields that don't have a lot of outside funding for fellowships, etc) is not a good reason to take advantage of a person (your advisor) or people (your group, team, etc) in it. It's very seldom those on the interface level that are responsible for the injustice, and in this case, it's such a big system that, to my knowledge, those who are responsible are pretty much a "Them". (Incidentally, I don't have a good enough understanding of economics to follow the cause all the way up, so that last assertion could be erroneous).

Edit: So, basically, what Bukharan said.

You're right.. those people aren't really accountable, and I just pulled a reason out of my arse. I just realized that i said that to justify what i intend to do.

Edited July 10, 2011 by President

[awvish]

Whether or not the system is unfair (and I agree with you that it's especially rough on Ph.D students in fields that don't have a lot of outside funding for fellowships, etc) is not a good reason to take advantage of a person (your advisor) or people (your group, team, etc) in it. It's very seldom those on the interface level that are responsible for the injustice, and in this case, it's such a big system that, to my knowledge, those who are responsible are pretty much a "Them". (Incidentally, I don't have a good enough understanding of economics to follow the cause all the way up, so that last assertion could be erroneous).

Edit: So, basically, what Bukharan said.

Edited July 10, 2011 by awvish

[timuralp]

The whole point is to get a Master's degree for free. In the U.S., those are very rare.

I disagree. I've been offered work+MS at two companies. I'm sure there are more (I can't be that special). Two friends of mine got their part-time MS while also working at different companies. If the goal is to get a part-time MS, look for jobs that specifically allow funding for education.

Otherwise, I would encourage you to apply for MS and then apply for all the TA positions. Depending on the school, those may be entirely staffed by MS students. A lot (most? all?) of professors won't want to pay for someone's RA position if that person is not doing any work and won't hesitate to let the person go.

Edited July 10, 2011 by timuralp

[csperson]

President, I think it's ok to tell the school that you want to do a PhD even though you only intend to get a Masters.

This is NOT a good thing to do to your advisor, but it is a very good thing to do for yourself.

The fact is that only about 50% PhD students actually receive their PhDs, and that percentage is lower than 50% at some schools.

Many PhD students quit after their Masters, because they only intended to get MS. All of their advisors were pissed.

On the other hand, many people who intended to finish the PhD don't finish it anyway. So whatever. I mean, you can save tons of money by starting out as PhD student and quit after your MS.

Now, your problem is that you are also trying work part time at a company and go to school full time. Unless you get a fellowship, don't you think you'll be dead tired, cause you'll be working as a TA/RA as well??? And everyday you'd have to worry about getting caught, would you not?

Edited July 10, 2011 by csperson

[Eigen]

President, I think it's ok to tell the school that you want to do a PhD even though you only intend to get a Masters.

This is NOT a good thing to do to your advisor, but it is a very good thing to do for yourself.

The fact is that only about 50% PhD students actually receive their PhDs, and that percentage is lower than 50% at some schools.

Many PhD students quit after their Masters, because they only intended to get MS. All of their advisors were pissed.

On the other hand, many people who intended to finish the PhD don't finish it anyway. So whatever. I mean, you can save tons of money by starting out as PhD student and quit after your MS.

Now, your problem is that you are also trying work part time at a company and go to school full time. Unless you get a fellowship, don't you think you'll be dead tired, cause you'll be working as a TA/RA as well??? And everyday you'd have to worry about getting caught, would you not?

Several things:

Most schools will not let you work outside jobs if you're getting any outside funding. You can try doing it on the sly, but they can cut off your funding if they find out.

Most consolation MS degrees will still require a thesis. Your advisor will have to sign off on giving it to you... And some can be quite difficult if they feel like you've ripped them off. I know people that have had almost two additional years to finish up a consolation MS even with no funding.

It's a really unethical thing to do... You're taking fundng and a spot for something you never intend to finish, and lying about it in the process. You're wasting the schools money, and your advisors time and grant money just so you can cheat your way to a free ride. Most advisors have seen this before, and aren't stupid... And there are all kinds of ways this could backfire if you get caught, from not getting the MS in a reasonable amount of time, to losing your funding or having to even pay some back to the school. Not to mention that you won't be able to get recommendations from any of the professors, although that doesn't seem important to you. Depending, there also might be the possibility of losing the side job, if your advisor or the faculty are pissed enough, and have the local industry connections that most do.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Eigen

[President]

So the key is to avoid getting caught working.

My idea was that I should just work at a startup company and code for them while studying for the MS. I know several PhD students who actually have their own companies while studying for a fully funded PhD. As long as I prepare a research project before I begin the MS program, I'd be able to show to my advisor that I'm actually doing some research.. lol. She'll think that I'm having reasonable progress for a first year student.

But thanks for the comments guys. You've really helped me solidify my plans to do this. I promise myself that I WILL do this, IF (1) I don't get admitted with a full-time scholly from an MS program or (2) My employer does not sponsor a part-time MS for me.

How, your problem is that you are also trying work part time at a company and go to school full time. Unless you get a fellowship, don't you think you'll be dead tired, cause you'll be working as a TA/RA as well??? And everyday you'd have to worry about getting caught, would you not?

That's the thing, I can definitely pull it off when it comes to work load - I worked 42 hours a week during the semester as an undergraduate, and during one summer, I worked 70 hours. Not to undermine the experiences of other people or anything, but all this struggling has made me realize that money's important, and feeling all guilty about ethical ramifications is just for suckers who had it good in life.

But it's unfair to say this, but it's just a generalization.

Edited July 11, 2011 by President

[the poisoned pawn]

If you think research is as simple as homework, midterms, etc that you can fully prepare before even coming in, then you're quite wrong. It may turn out that research takes a lot of paper reading, guide from your advisor to progress even if you come in prepared.

For the working part, of course, they key point is not to get caught, but you can say the same for bank robbery, cheating during exam, stealing light bulbs in Walmart, etc.

In any case, hope your company pays for your part time MS. If not, you first need an admission to execute this plan. So, good luck.

Edited July 11, 2011 by the poisoned pawn

[chaospaladin]

If you enter a PhD Program and receive funding and you don't finish, do you have to pay back the funding?

[OH YEAH]

but all this struggling has made me realize that money's important, and feeling all guilty about ethical ramifications is just for suckers who had it good in life.

That is not a reasonable assumption. I came from a very poor family, went to a very shitty undergrad. I know others who have had similar experiences. By saying things like that, you come off much worse than your "suckers who had it good in life".

I am in a PhD program because I love research. Your situation is not unique, and your background doesn't give you any excuse to take advantage of others.

[csperson]

a lot of non-top CS programs fully fund MS students

[President]

You have no right to judge unless you yourself have not made a single ethical compromise. We've all lied, cheated, and stolen before. The difference between you and I is the difference between Master and Slave morality.

[OH YEAH]

You have no right to judge unless you yourself have not made a single ethical compromise. We've all lied, cheated, and stolen before. The difference between you and I is the difference between Master and Slave morality.

At Princeton, it costs about $80,000 a year to fund a single graduate student. I can safely say I have never stolen that much.

[President]

At Princeton, it costs about $80,000 a year to fund a single graduate student. I can safely say I have never stolen that much.

Wow. You go to Princeton????

[OH YEAH]

Wow. You go to Princeton????

If this is a sincere question, yes.

If it is not a sincere question, then note that I bring up Princeton only because it is a school that I actually know enough about to make statements about. It is not bragging; many of the other users on this forum go to good schools as well. What is the point in trolling? I have no more time for this topic.

[Amogh]

Alright since you have made up your mind about it, let me warn you. There is a major difference between a PhD student who drops out because he realises that research is not for him and one who came for the freeride and almost 70% of professors know the signs. So, the chances of you passing off as the prior are very slim. You'll have to put on a very good act.

I still disapprove of this and say that you shouldn't cheat people. Seriously. o and do find out the repercussions of leaving phd with an ms at the place you intend to pull it off at.

[Eigen]

There's also the inherent degree of premeditation. You're planning on stealing a lot from people, lying to them and cheating your way to a free masters. That's quite different from something in the heat of the moment.

But yeah, I can safely say I don't lie, cheat or steal. Heck, I don't even cheat on my taxes when I easily could.

[wtncffts]

Wow, what a way to irrelevantly and obnoxiously bring Nietzsche into this. At first, I thought this was a sincere request for info, but your subsequent responses show otherwise.