Why do people hate big class sizes?

[Clay Made]

I never understood this. Surely, a larger class, means a better experience, for a number of reasons.

1. More friends

2. Bigger class to network and learn off of

3. Larger class usually means a bigger program and a larger likelihood of acceptance

thoughts?

[runonsentence]

By "class" do you mean the number of students enrolled in a typical course, or the number of students in the entering cohort?

[ZeeMore21]

I never understood this. Surely, a larger class, means a better experience, for a number of reasons.

1. More friends

2. Bigger class to network and learn off of

3. Larger class usually means a bigger program and a larger likelihood of acceptance

thoughts?

Don't really understand this question, please clarify.

[lyonessrampant]

Because it means less individualized attention from the prof, the likely intermediary of a TA, and less student attention overall. That's why I went to a private school, but there were wil be those who disagree, so let them SPEAK!

[Henry Hudson]

my core course had 17 people, and for a grad course, that was waaaaay too big. for grad school, smaller is better. everyone has to pull their weight and participate. larger classes do not equate to more people to lean off of; the prof has to spend more time speaking generally and only those most in love with their own voices (while saying nothing that relates to anyone studying something different) dominate discussions.

[Clay Made]

By "class" do you mean the number of students enrolled in a typical course, or the number of students in the entering cohort?

Both, I guess. I always read people enjoy a smaller class or cohort but a reasonable number say 70-80 is ideal I think. Anything above and it perhaps is too much.

[Clay Made]

Don't really understand this question, please clarify.

Why do people, grad students, like a small class?

[Clay Made]

Because it means less individualized attention from the prof, the likely intermediary of a TA, and less student attention overall. That's why I went to a private school, but there were wil be those who disagree, so let them SPEAK!

I was a TA at law schools when doing my masters, and the cohort was about 400 students.

Smaller classes may be OK to allow individual attention but I find professors at graduate level are more then happy to meet outside of class to address concerns.

[Kitkat]

I think that it really depends on the field that you are going into. With law, I could imagine that with a larger cohort you can still easily get your degree and get something out of having that many people to get in contact with. I think that with law, it is more about who you know. But in the sciences, I think that it is also having more contact with your research adviser, and other people in your field, which is not necessarily the more the merrier.

[ktel]

My graduating class had 190 students, and I thought the size was excellent. Because of the larger number of students, the department is able to offer a wider variety of classes. I was still able to develop close relationships with several professors. Being the only blonde girl and kicking butt academically probably contributed to that.

[Clay Made]

My graduating class had 190 students, and I thought the size was excellent. Because of the larger number of students, the department is able to offer a wider variety of classes. I was still able to develop close relationships with several professors. Being the only blonde girl and kicking butt academically probably contributed to that.

Exactly what I mean. Great work!!

[Eigen]

Our cohorts are around 6-12 students, which is about "mid-sized"... And I consider it just about perfect. It's a tight knit group to hang around with, you get to know everyone, but it's not too massive. For a doctoral program, that transfers into about a 50-70 student program, which is a nice middle of the road size.

It means most of the "first semester" classes have around 12-15 graduate students in them, which is on the large side- but then once people choose subfields, you get down around 1-6 people in a class, which is ideal. Any more than that, and the lectures really can't be personalized enough, or allow enough time to really get into discussions/debates on the topics.

A cohort of that size means all the faculty in the department know you, the staff know you, and you get to know all of them quite easily. It allows for easily organized departmental functions (we do 2-3 per semester). And once you choose a research group, it means you (usually) have lots of 1 on 1 time with your PI- I talk to mine every day, we have several fairly in depth meetings per week- our offices are right across the hall from one another.

Also keep in mind that larger class sizes, while they usually translate into more spots to be accepted, can also mean the university plans on pushing a fair amount of the graduate students out in the first couple of years. In my field, there are several universities that take 100+ students per cycle, but many of them "expect" that about half of that class will drop out/be pushed out. It makes for a lot of competition between people of that year, as opposed to fostering a cooperative/peer-like mindset.

Also, if there's a huge entering class there can be a lot more competition for the few research spots in some of the high profile groups- whereas schools that take smaller cohorts usually try harder to take people in who will get to work in their first choice lab.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Eigen

[wtncffts]

Again, confusing two distinct things. I believe the cohort size is at best only indirectly related to actual class size. Yes, it's true that in general a larger cohort means more course choices. That's because a larger cohort usually suggests a program with more resources, more faculty, even more physical space. I don't think that really bears on the questio of individual class sizes though. A smaller program might have large classes for whatever reason (deliberate choice, lack of resources, etc.), while a large progam with a large faculty and resources might well be able to keep most classes small enough to allow for more interaction. It's not uniform, either; I think almost all programs have relatively large intro to intermediate courses, while upper-year courses are usually smaller.

As to why grad students like small classes, that's already been answered. Most grad classes are, or should be, much more like a gathering of colleagues who meet to discuss issues and ideas, not one privileged member who lectures to the rest. Small class sizes are imperative to maintaining that environment.

Your original points:

1. First, the point of class isn't to make friends. Second, why would a larger class afford any more opportunities than a smaller one? It's not like you're going to make 50 friends and so need a large class. You might make 5 actual friends and that can be done just as well in a small class, perhaps even more so, since you'll have a much greater degree of interaction in class.

2. Same as first.

3. You're assuming a lot of things here. Larger programs also likely mean more applicants, so that the ratio of applicants to accepted is probably similar; if there are differences, they're probably not systematically related to cohort size but individual circumstances.

[UnlikelyGrad]

Why I prefer being part of a large cohort. I know probably 80% of the grad students in my department (~60 grads), which is good. Most of them are in a different degree program, but some of our research interests overlap nonetheless. If I need assistance with a new technique and a particular prof's lab would be the best one to help me out--I am guaranteed to know someone in that lab.

Why I prefer smaller classes: more in-class interaction. With a large class, there's not much choice but to sit there while the prof lectures. Yes, you can get help outside of class, but it's much more dynamic learning when you can have discussions going on. And in a grad level class, this should be the case: you should spend at least part of the time reading papers and picking them to pieces with the prof's assistance. I've seen this done in a class of ~25 but that was pushing the limits of things. I like classes w/ 10 people max.

[rising_star]

My program has about 75-85 graduate students, so it's a bit larger than some. That said, we accepted about 10% of applicants in each of the last two cycles, which isn't a particularly high rate of admissions. It does mean that there's some diversity in interests, which can be helpful when you need help with an area or want to form a reading group outside of class.

Personally, I hate larger classes. I've been in graduate seminars with 22 people and they are awful. The conversation gets dominated by a few people while everyone else sits there in silence for 2.5 hours. The learning experience becomes much more impersonal to me when classes are large. Some of this is likely influenced by my experiences as an undergraduate when I frequently took classes with 10 or fewer students.

In terms of networking, you're going to have to do that outside of your department regardless of its size.

[runonsentence]

Agreed, rising_star and UnlikelyGrad. Large classes just kill discussion. About 10 students is fantastic, but 20-some and the dynamics get weird.