0% Confidence of Acceptance

[It's (Not) About Me]

Honestly, I think your strategy was a good one. Maybe there were a few other excellent schools that would have been a good fit. But the benefits of getting a PhD from a school that's NOT top-ranked are minimal, especially in English which is an extremely glutted field. I've said this a bunch of times on here: I would not get a PhD if I weren't sure I could get an academic job with it. And basically, that means my PhD has to come from a top-15 program. So I don't think you look arrogant or over-confident for applying to the best schools, I think you look pragmatic. If you don't get in, you won't get a PhD, which is better than getting a PhD that you won't be able to use.

Thank you so much for saying this. You have pretty well summed up my thoughts on the subject! I agree that there are no certainties either way, but I can't imagine entering a program that I'm not 100% excited and proud to attend. What that entails is different for everyone, but I guess for me it meant applying to places with faculty that I truly drool over, good placement records, similar rankings to my undergrad institution, etc. If I'm not good enough for one of those places, I will feel more comfortable in a different field, but YMMV.

 

What are the rankings that matter though? Overall department or subfield? I've been accepted to Indiana Bloomington, which is ranked around 22 overall I think, but is one of the three best places to do Victorian, which is what I plan on studying. If I get into a better ranked school overall, would it be more sensible to go with Indiana or the program that is better ranked?

I had a similar strategy--I looked within the top 20ish, but prioritized the ones with higher subrankings in my interests (according to US News & World Report). As for which school should win out in the end, there is so much contradictory evidence. I have heard that it's better to go to the school with a higher overall ranking no matter what, but if you're going to be miserable there, uh, don't.

[Swagato]

For me, personally, I went for broke applying only to hyper-competitive programs with big names, big research output, and fantastic placement records. It's very likely that I won't get in anywhere. In which case, I'll apply again as many times as I feel like it until I get tired and find a new dream. I didn't apply to any second tier programs. 

 

 

^This was more or less my approach as well. My mentality was that I'd rather go for broke and see what happens, than be tempted by a program that I wasn't overly enthusiastic about going to just because I wasn't accepted by any place else. Were I planning on applying again, I would add in more of these programs and take away some more prestigious ones. 

 

That being said, I applied to way way way too many programs. Once I got into double digits I went kinda nuts. In hindsight, I might have applied to only half as many programs.

 

I adopted a mix of these two approaches. There aren't that many stellar programs in film and visual studies, so my job was made a bit easier. First off, I went for fit. Second, I went for reputation and placement within the field. Again, film and visual studies is a small world, so despite the lack of 'official' rankings (such as Brian Leiter's Philosophical Gourmet Report), it's fairly straightforward to, if not rank, at least bracket off programs in tiers. Third and last step, apply as widely as possible within each bracket while factoring for research and faculty fit, and recent placement.

 

I think this is a general rubric that can be applied to any field.

[lovinliterature]

Primarily through a lot of googling. It's definitely easier for some programs than others. For programs that didn't post percentiles, I spoke with my advisor about the program's placement history for a rough idea and went through the NRC data.

 

Edit: Also, I noted where all of my POIs went while doing research on various departments. Of course this is completely anecdotal, but it definitely gave me a sense of where to direct my attention (and I came across a couple of programs I wouldn't have otherwise considered that way).

 

Thank you.  I appreciate it.

 

If you're really dedicated and pathetic, you can do what I did: most schools have a complete list of recent dissertations... go through and search every person to see where they are now, then check this against any official placement stats schools give you. 

 

That's actually a really good idea.  Thanks.

[NowMoreSerious]

This is a really good conversation that we should move to the acceptance banter thread. Seems kind of weird to have it in the 0% confidence thread.

[Swagato]

Except I'm not bloody accepted! Yet!

[InHacSpeVivo]

Yeah, I kept it going in case I have to do this again.

[patientagony]

Which sub-field rankings do you use, patientagony?

 

Word of mouth, specifically the opinion of one of my professors, a respected Victorianist from Columbia. I haven't been able to find any rankings that specifically discuss Victorian to back him up, but I'll take his word when he says Columbia, Indiana and Rutgers are the best places for Victorian. 

 

I wish I had something more definitive, but I feel like his advice can be trusted.

[Swagato]

I'm waitlisted at Pitt for English+Film.

 

I'm not sure whether to jump or punch a wall. 

[jazzyd]

You're in at three amazing places. If you're actually planning on applying again...

 

No no no no, haha, I think my tense was a bit confusing there. I'm not going through that hell again! Hence why I said I wish I had applied to fewer programs. But obviously I had no way of knowing I would be where I'm at just going into the second full week of February.

I adopted a mix of these two approaches. There aren't that many stellar programs in film and visual studies, so my job was made a bit easier. First off, I went for fit. Second, I went for reputation and placement within the field. Again, film and visual studies is a small world, so despite the lack of 'official' rankings (such as Brian Leiter's Philosophical Gourmet Report), it's fairly straightforward to, if not rank, at least bracket off programs in tiers. Third and last step, apply as widely as possible within each bracket while factoring for research and faculty fit, and recent placement.

 

I think this is a general rubric that can be applied to any field.

That sounds like a smart approach. I know a current graduate student here who is involved in film and visual studies, but due to the small scope of the field actually applied through English literature programs and is technically an English graduate student. The only downside is that they won't be able to teach or assist any film courses here since they are not officially a part of that department.

[InHacSpeVivo]

I'm waitlisted at Pitt for English+Film.

 

I'm not sure whether to jump or punch a wall. 

 

Jump! I am SO jealous! How did you hear? I'm thinking I should write and beg them to get my rejection over with at this point.

[Swagato]

I confirmed with the DGS, English, that film studies notifications had not been made yet. She only replied to that email this morning. Then, just a few minutes back, she emailed me cc'ing film studies, with the official waitlist notification. 

[asleepawake]

Asleepawake! Thanks for supplying me with my new and favorite avatar.

 

YES. I am so excited to see this! Excellent choice.

 

 

But the benefits of getting a PhD from a school that's NOT top-ranked are minimal, especially in English which is an extremely glutted field. I've said this a bunch of times on here: I would not get a PhD if I weren't sure I could get an academic job with it. And basically, that means my PhD has to come from a top-15 program. 

 

Except that Top-15 schools DO NOT have 100% placement rants, and a lot of far lower ranked programs have above-average rates. The ranking of the school you attend largely affects the types of schools you will apply to (be in large R1 schools, small liberal arts colleges, or community colleges), but not ultimately whether you get a TT spot. I FEEL LIKE I SAY THIS A LOT, but these are simple numbers. MATH MATH MATH. I have also heard from a professor that candidates from the very top schools are often not prepared for the job market, though that is just anecdote.

 

Hey, Pericles.  I totally agree with your approach, but how do you find out about placement records?  I have asked some schools, but it's pretty hard to figure out.  They all say things like, "We have alumni at University X, University, Y, and University B" rather than "80% of our graduates in the last three years are working tenure track jobs."  How are you getting your information?

Here are rankings by outcome: http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/english/rank/_________M______________________________________________________U

 

They're slightly outdated by this is the category: "Overall support and outcomes: The program supports a high fraction of students, students graduate quickly and get jobs, and the program tracks student placements." If you look at programs individually there are some placement rates available under "outcomes," though again, they may be outdated. 

Edited February 11, 2013 by asleepawake

[asleepawake]

I'm waitlisted at Pitt for English+Film.

 

I'm not sure whether to jump or punch a wall. 

 

Jump! Congrats! It is more waiting, which sucks, but it's great news. I hope it works out for you there - it's a great program! 

[Gwendolyn]

Like some others previously mentioned, certain schools do a really good job of recording graduate placement. I think using Academia.edu and following/stalking people associated with any given department is another good way to see what graduates are currently doing. Placements of graduates was a huge factor in selecting graduate schools to which I wanted to apply, so I've spent countless hours e-stalking people for this very reason. 

 

OSU's PhD placement record for the interested (second link follows graduates throughout their career): 

 

2011 & 2012

http://english.osu.edu/graduate-studies/phd-placement

2001-2010

http://english.osu.edu/sites/english.osu.edu/files/PlacementData.pdf

Edited February 11, 2013 by Gwendolyn

[It's (Not) About Me]

So... How are everyone's confidence levels? Mine took a pretty big blow after getting rejected from Northwestern, but by now I have semi-successfully pep talked myself ("It was my first application! My materials were still pretty rough! Maybe it was a bad fit! Maybe they could tell they're not my top choice! It's not over till it's over!" etc) into a positive attitude.

[thebeatgoeson]

Weirdly enough, I haven't thought about the (un)likelihood of my admission in a few days.  I've actually been too emotionally involved in bemoaning the complete lack of response to consider what that response might be.  Overall, feeling good about my odds, awful about the process.  And Northwestern is a helluva program, It's(Not).  It might be comforting to think that you were among the hundreds who didn't make it this year.  (It might not.)

[jazzyd]

The high of being accepted is waning a little, or maybe I just have a bunch on my plate this week and my morale is down aside from applications. I'm a bit upset about not hearing from Berkeley (along with Duke, NYU, and UVA) particularly since someone I know has heard back (positively) from three of them(!) But the fact that I got accepted to 3 programs that I could see myself at is enough reassurance that I do have something to offer and my efforts over the past couple years are being recognized.

 

Just working on staying thankful and realizing that it's not a competition (or is it?); because in the end we can only go to one program.

Edited February 13, 2013 by jazzy dubois

[JeremiahParadise]

So... How are everyone's confidence levels? Mine took a pretty big blow after getting rejected from Northwestern, but by now I have semi-successfully pep talked myself ("It was my first application! My materials were still pretty rough! Maybe it was a bad fit! Maybe they could tell they're not my top choice! It's not over till it's over!" etc) into a positive attitude.

Hey there. Sorry to hear about NW. I had a similar pep talk with myself after Wisconsin rejected me. Not totally over it, though. Struggling to find that positive feeling without hearing a peep from UMass and CUNY. REALLY hoping for a waitlist from one of them. I keep telling myself that it only takes one acceptance, but I am having trouble thinking even one will accept me if 9 other (and very similar) programs won't. Really scary times, friends

[DontHate]

I'm feeling okay. This morning my prof told me he would help me "hibernate in Brazil" if I need to take another year and re-apply. So it's all good.

[thatjewishgirl]

I am feeling like I have no chance at any of the programs I applied to! I think that stems from having heard from one program (rejection) and absolute silence from the other eight.

 

I want some advice from you guys, though. Maybe this question doesn't belong in this thread, it might belong in the plan B thread, but since I currently feel like I have 0% chance at acceptance, I will ask here!

 

One of the universities I adjunct for mentioned to me that I am qualified to apply for (and encouraged me to do so) one of our full time, tenure track positions teaching Reading in our Developmental Studies department. I would be the head instructor and make all the curriculum decisions, etc. I think those of you who have applied multiple years in a row might be able to help me out with this. Would it look bad on future apps that I took a job in Reading? I enjoy teaching reading, but I mostly teach composition now, and really want a PhD in the hopes that I can one day teach lit classes (anywhere, any level, doesn't matter to me). I don't know why, but I guess I wonder if it would look bad for some reason. I guess it couldn't look any *worse* than being an adjunct, so... a stable paycheck would be nice. 

[DontHate]

If you're eligible for a tenure track job teaching something you like, I would say go for it! Honestly, do you even need a PhD if you can already land a job like that?

[Datatape]

I certainly can't imagine that would look bad in any way, particularly since it is tenure-track.  That would speak very highly of your abilities and the confidence of that university in hiring you on for such a position.

[ProfLorax]

Thatjewishgirl, I am simultaneously applying for a reading/writing position where I currently teach. I say, go for it! Although I know that Reading is not highly regarded in the field of English, but full-time teaching positions are! Also, the administrative experience of being head instructor of ANY subject could only be a positive thing on your CV when job hunting in the future.

[ProfLorax]

PS Let me know if you want to swap application materials!

[thatjewishgirl]

While I know they believe I am qualified, I think they're desperate for a live human to take this job, and I'm young (i.e. the least haggard old crone who works there), so students generally like me as a teacher. So I don't know what that really says about my qualifications. But this is a branch campus of one of our state universities and it is open admission... meaning the caliber of student is comparable to a community college. I think I would like the job for a few years, but I don't want to die in community college/Oklahoma hell.