Are there any Straddlers out there?

[Pitangus]

Gosh, if I knew what I knew now, I would have tried to go to a research school. Getting research experience at a teaching school, one that does not do any type of research like Ohio State for example (just picked the school...roll with me here) makes it difficult to prove that I wanted to do anything while applying to graduate school.

Oh yes, this. My choice of undergrad was very disadvantageous for what I want to do now. But at the time I didn't know anything about graduate school or research in my areas of interest.

I thought graduate education just meant taking classes at night after work so you could be paid more money at your job (though of course plenty of people actually do this).

I thought I was going to become a park manager because that was the only career I could think of that would allow me to sort of do what I now plan to do in graduate school (and hopefully beyond).

I think it's going to an interesting experience. As we get to know people better, I think we'll find that people in academia come from many different places and backgrounds, not all of them privileged. I think the best thing is to keep an open mind and heart.

I know I'm privileged in the sense that I come from a very hard-working and supportive family. I consider my only disadvantage to be a lack of resources and knowledge that would have helped me find, and start working towards, my desired career path sooner.

[bellefast]

I know I'm privileged in the sense that I come from a very hard-working and supportive family. I consider my only disadvantage to be a lack of resources and knowledge that would have helped me find, and start working towards, my desired career path sooner.

100% this. I am privileged to be where I am as people from where I come from don't get this chance. But, I am aware that those who have family who have PhDs, MBA and so forth know more starting out as an advantage.

[Blurry]

100% this. I am privileged to be where I am as people from where I come from don't get this chance. But, I am aware that those who have family who have PhDs, MBA and so forth know more starting out as an advantage.

Indeed, but it is not just a 'head start' although this is probably the most important thing. I was totally lost when I went to University and I only applied to two schools for my undergraduate (the two english speaking institutions in Montreal) and then one for my masters. I did not even know graduate school was funded until one of my professors in late undergraduate was trying to encourage me to apply to more competitive schools for my Masters. She was a straddler and the only person I've ever spoken to in academia about my background. Had I known what I know now, like many others on this board, I would have done things differently. I also agree that I am privileged compared to my counterparts. Many people I know were never encouraged to get an education and had they pursued it, they would have found little support.

In any case, I wanted to add that having well educated parents is a decisive advantage in the Humanities. Not just for navigating the academic terrain, but with the additional cultural capital one gets growing up in such an environment. It is also a decisive advantage for standardized testing (especially, for example, the verbal component of the GRE). I'm not sure what the precise data is, but "middle class" homes tend to use three times more words than a working class home.

I also agree that we are all mostly working class. The 'middle' class is a distinct social class but not, in my view, a distinct economic class.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Blurry

[OnceAndFutureGrad]

I grew up in a blue collar household where "getting an education" was viewed as a golden ticket for moving up to a better life.

Exactly - I know plenty of us can relate. "Go to college, do well, and you'll never have to work hard like I did."

So you go to college, you do well; but then what? You get so caught up in the idea that being a good student magically opens doors and creates jobs, that you don't network and schmooze the way other kids learned to do. And forget about unpaid internships - you can't miss a paycheck from your menial job!

My mom sounded like she was going to burst into tears when I told her my (temporary until grad school, hopefully) new job: an overnight EMT. She's worked herself nigh to death as a late shift ER radiographer. I don't mean to disappoint her, but her idea of college as a shining miracle institution has failed us both.

Straddlers, remember: the fight has merely begun in college. You're fighting to get into, or succeed in, grad school. Then you're fighting for recognition as you mature as a student. Then you're fighting for jobs in a market where it really is who you know. And always, you're fighting the urge that you're a stranger in a strange land, an impostor from outside. Keep up the fight, straddlers!

[Behavioral]

I came from an immigrant family; English was my 3rd language; and lived in poverty (actual economic definition) for 13 years. I'm the first person in my family to go to college.

Although I do realize my upbringing has had a huge influence over who I am now, I don't think it's really beneficial for any one of us to start thinking about in-group/out-group categories. We're all in academia based on our own merits and accomplishments (seeing as AA is less pronounced in PhD programs than undergrad/professional schools). If social psychology has taught me one thing, it's that thinking about self-relevant stereotypes leads to the phenomenon of stereotype threat, which is like a self-fulfilling prophecy--if the stereotypes are such that you think you'll perform worse, you will.

[hyperjulie]

^{I'm a straddler myself, though I didn't know what that meant when I clicked on the thread. Not a lot of college educated people in my family, and almost nobody with anything beyond a bachelor's. My mom works in a factory making labels for electronics and my dad works in a grocery store, so it doesn't get much more blue collar than that.}

^{It used to make me very frustrated and set back, but Behavioral and I are really on the same page, I think. There are definitely some things that are different about me than my counterparts, but I don't think most of them put me at a disadvantage. Sure, I lack some of the cultural capital that others do, and I definitely won't be getting any jobs or positions through connections, but I'm still smart and savvy enough to figure out a lot of stuff on my own. I just have to work a little harder at it. I started off my college career thinking in an in-group/out-group frame of mine, but I found the less I let myself feel bitter about it, and the more I allowed myself to just be happy for friends who had the good fortune of having such awesome life experiences, the less it has been a problem for me. It might not be fair but there's no changing it, so might as well have a positive attitude about it.}

[Pitangus]

I did not even know graduate school was funded until one of my professors in late undergraduate was trying to encourage me to apply to more competitive schools for my Masters. She was a straddler and the only person I've ever spoken to in academia about my background. Had I known what I know now, like many others on this board, I would have done things differently.

Although I didn't think to mention it before, this was huge for me.

Honestly, I would not have even considered graduate school if full funding (tuition waiver + stipend) was not both common and expected in my field.

[svh]

Hi all. I am also a first-generation college student, and my parents certainly were at one point in the working class. They are actually both refugee immigrants. When they started here, they didn't even know English. But they've worked really hard (three full time jobs and one part time job between the two of them) and allowed their kids to have a somewhat more comfortable upbringing. Based on our total income, we'd be middle class. But based on salary/money earned per hour, we're probably a lot lower.

Going to undergraduate was pretty difficult. No one in my family had the experience to tell me what I needed to do. The counselors at my high school only told you to go to school in-state, which was not what I wanted to do. In the end, I couldn't afford to go out of state. I also didn't have anyone in my family to tell me how to get to grad school. But luckily, we have the internet. Using the internet, I found out everything I needed to know and have been pretty successful about it so far. Hopefully, with the internet, people from similar backgrounds as our's will be able to get all the information they need to achieve.

[juilletmercredi]

I'm also a straddler - I grew up working-class (my dad was a bus driver and was quite literally blue-collar; my mom was a stay-at-home mom until I turned 16 and she got a diploma in nursing) and I am the first person in my entire family, extended included, to get a bachelor's degree. I enjoyed reading this thread a lot, because I definitely feel the same way but a lot of stuff I didn't connect to being a straddler. For example, I also dislike conferences and the whole "schmoozing" aspect of networking, but I never thought that could be connected to my working-class background (in which people said what they meant, and jobs were more predicated on licensing and experience although there definitely is a who-you-know aspect) until reading all of your comments.

I don't think straddlers are any less prone to think before they speak: it's not that. It's simply that, at least in my experience, working-class parents take a no-bullshit approach to their speech. There's very little sugarcoating and prettying it up. Honestly, I've found that sometimes it works to my advantage, as I'm regarded as an honest and straightfoward person among my peers. But I definitely have to temper it because I don't want to offend anyone.

[DeeLovely79]

I came from an immigrant family; English was my 3rd language; and lived in poverty (actual economic definition) for 13 years. I'm the first person in my family to go to college.

Although I do realize my upbringing has had a huge influence over who I am now, I don't think it's really beneficial for any one of us to start thinking about in-group/out-group categories. We're all in academia based on our own merits and accomplishments (seeing as AA is less pronounced in PhD programs than undergrad/professional schools). If social psychology has taught me one thing, it's that thinking about self-relevant stereotypes leads to the phenomenon of stereotype threat, which is like a self-fulfilling prophecy--if the stereotypes are such that you think you'll perform worse, you will.

Hi Behavioral,

Could you eleborate on what you are trying to say here. Upon a first reading it looks like you are saying that we are all where we are based on merit but then you seem to say that AA (which I assume is short hand for African Americans) are less represented in graduate school which seems to suggest less merit in that group? I don't want to read into what you are saying but could perhaps clarify your statement further?

[Pitangus]

Hi Behavioral,

Could you eleborate on what you are trying to say here. Upon a first reading it looks like you are saying that we are all where we are based on merit but then you seem to say that AA (which I assume is short hand for African Americans) are less represented in graduate school which seems to suggest less merit in that group? I don't want to read into what you are saying but could perhaps clarify your statement further?

Based on the context I assumed AA meant Affirmative Action.

[Behavioral]

Based on the context I assumed AA meant Affirmative Action.

Right-o.

[DeeLovely79]

Thanks for the clarification. I am still troubled by your statement. The underlying assumption is that affirmative action places unqualified students into slots when it really seeks to re-balance the fact that many groups don't have access to the social networks that provide the guidance and resources they need to get into college.

I'll be the first one to admit that many schools used a quota system to fullfil the policy which did not really didn't benefit the schools or applicants. I much prefer the current system where other factors such as class, educational history etc are used to create a diverse class.

As much I would like to believe that everyone is in the position that they are in at the moment solely due to merit it isn't true. It's actually more a "Straddler mentality" that all you need to do is work hard and the rest will fall into place. Success in academica (and other middle class enterprises) is a combination of hard work, determination, who you know and pure chance. If it wasn't this graduate school admission process would be very clear cut: GPA> X + GRE>Y = admission.

As Straddlers the "who you know" part of the equation is something that we have to spend extra time building. It's hard to spend time "networking" or working on research projects when you have to work a part time job off campus in addition to your workstudy job. Furthermore, Straddlers typically don't enter college or graduate school understanding the importance of building networks, finding mentors, participating in the "right" extracurricular activities or doing research. Fortunately many of us figured it out or had someone take pity on us guide us about these kind of things.

I don't think the purpose of this thread is have a pity party about our backgrounds but more to discuss the differences and how we've learned to manage them. You can't overcome a deficiency you don't know you have.

[Behavioral]

Thanks for the clarification. I am still troubled by your statement. The underlying assumption is that affirmative action places unqualified students into slots when it really seeks to re-balance the fact that many groups don't have access to the social networks that provide the guidance and resources they need to get into college.

That's not the essential assumption. There have been plenty of academic papers looking at stereotype threat at the university-level that is elicited due to the mere presence of Affirmative Action:

http://www.goalconsulting.org/page8/files/36%20Article%202.pdf (page 6 in particular)

Steele, Claude M. (1997). "A threat in the air: How stereotypes shape intellectual identity and performance". American Psychologist 52 (6): 613–629.

The goal of AA was, from a normative perspective, probably one that didn't mean any harm, especially to those it was seeking to help. Those whom it didn't help thought it was an unfair advantage; those whom it did help had to take the backlash from those opposing AA while having this new-found doubt about whether or not they were 'good enough' to get their on their own merit. I benefited surely from being an underrepresented minority in my admission to undergrad--my GPA and SAT scores were far lower than any of my peers; because of this, I always felt ashamed to tell people about my background because I didn't want them to look at me as anything less. This also got to my head as I did extremely poorly in school for the first 1.5 years (2.7 GPA). When I stopped thinking about myself and my background as 'different' from my peers is when my performance skyrocketed (averaged a 3.94 GPA from thereon after until I graduated) because I simply refused to think about how I got to where I'm at and took advantage of the opportunity at hand.

THAT is the reason why I'm against the blatant employment of AA in colleges. Someone who IS a URM may be able to get into a given school without special treatment during admissions, but if they're aware AA is a policy enforced in the school, they'll always be wondering. And like you said, what happens if a URM from an upper-middle class gets preferential treatment over, say, a Caucasian from a historically poor background? Where's the justice in that? Race isn't the only thing creating the disparity in opportunity in education.

Now that we're IN graduate school, why doubt yourself if you belong here? In what is seemingly a race-blind admissions process, it doesn't matter if you struggled prior to undergrad to make ends meet. Your work and discipline during college is what got you in and you should be proud of that. Graduate school might be a foreign idea to you (I know it is to me), but it's the same for a lot of others who may have grown up in well-educated families. Thinking of yourself as disadvantaged will only open up opportunities for self-fulfilling prophecies, in my opinion.

[fernandes]

I'm the first in my entire family joining a PhD program, good luck to me.

[Levon3]

On 1/16/2012 at 9:05 PM, wildviolet said:

Well, I heard on the radio recently that we're all pretty much "working" class. That is, if you have to be employed to put food on the table, have a roof over your head, save for retirement, etc., then you're working class.

Yes, I learned this recently, too. I think "blue-collar" might be a more descriptive way to differentiate, but even with that there's a lot of variety in income levels.

[XVIIA]

I'm glad this board exists! For a lot of my life, I've felt sort of isolated, never quite fitting in. I've spent a lot of time being torn between feeling proud and excited by all of these "white-color experiences" I was getting to live, guilty that my parents made so many sacrifices to get me there and will never experience it themselves, and a bit resentful for how my peers seemed to just cruise into things. Don't get me wrong, my peers definitely worked hard and I don't doubt that most of them deserved all of the success they've achieved. But it's hard to be struggling to find an internship during undergrad and then watching how easily some of my friends got internships at their uncle's company or by having their family friend who works at a good company put in a good word for them. I had never met a single person who worked in the industry I wanted to pursue prior to my first internship, and it was sometimes a bit of a battle to not be jealous of my friends and their many useful connections. I've been out of school for a number of years now, and I've found that many of the same experiences apply in the white-color workforce. I'm sure that this is something I will continue to face as I return to pursue more education...

Thank you to @Blurry for posting the links to those books! I ended up meeting my husband during my undergrad, and he grew up quite privileged. He's been wonderful, open minded, and tries to be understanding of my roots, which I am so grateful for, but often times, he struggles to truly comprehend how it feels to be torn between your past and your present/future like this. I'm looking forward to reading them myself, and possibly sharing them with him to continue to broaden his perspective.

[AnxiousNerd]

I can definitely relate to this. My parents have 1 high school diploma between the two of them, my mom is physically handicapped, and my father was in and out of prison. We were very poor and my resources were slim. Luckily, my mom recognized that the way for me to have "a better life than she did" and to "provide for my kids better than she could" is through education. She isn't too educated, but she would spend her last penny to get me a tutor or a book or a calculator if I needed it. Now I've graduated with a math degree, I'm doing paid research in Europe, and I've been accepted to 2 PhD programs for math. I am SO excited that my kids won't have the same struggles I did, but I also am very grateful for what I have experienced and the skills it's given me today.

Big respect to everyone posting in this thread, even if it's 6 years old. We killed it.