Decisions, Decisions

[oseirus]

Oseirus, you have made my application cycle exponentially better. Thank you for being you.

Llama ... you ... complete ... me

[crazedandinfused]

Hello everybody! It's good to finally be in this thread. I was scared I'd never make it.

Basically my quandary is this: I'm in at two PhD programs and one potentially funded MA.

PhD program #1 has a really robust program with a POI whose scholarship is just friggin amazing and is a great match. PhD program #2's POI is a really, really well known scholar whose work is mind-blowingly fantastic (like, you can't put the book down) and is also a great match. But I feel like program #2 has less malleability; if my research interests were to change I wouldn't have the same flexibility I would have at program #1.

Add my potentially funded MA to the mix and it all gets very loony. Any advice would be appreciated but I don't expect anyone to solve this for me. That's why I'm going to visit all three. But now I'm gonna try to get this water outta my ear.

[Gene Parmesan]

Just curious: what is it about the funded MA puts it in competition with your two PhD offers?

[crazedandinfused]

Good POIs and the ability to reapply/apply for the first time to the Harvards, Yales and Columbias of the world. Although I am really souring on the idea of institutional prestige - especially since I now have the opportunity to work with a very prestigious scholar in my field. I think I'd have to be a fool to turn that down.....

Edited March 7, 2012 by crazedandinfused

[Gene Parmesan]

First, I'd suggest you might want to open an extensive dialogue with the prestigious scholar in your field from the PhD program. If you can't visit, talk to them on the phone and try to gather a sense of what kind of support they'll give you. Being paired up with a good scholar like that can only work in your favor if they demonstrate their willingness to advise you in the ways that will make you successful on the job market. The real question would be A) What chance do you have at a prestigious Ivy? (not that you're not a good applicant, but the numbers are often against us) and How would your education differ at one school over the other?

Then the question of age and experience comes up. For example, I went to an MA program cause I was young and needed some more life experience, but didn't want to take time off from school. If age isn't a factor, I'd say you got into two rad PhD programs, so that means they see something in you that goes beyond an MA admission.

Def talk to your prestigious POI. THey will more than likely be even willing to offer you advice beyond their school. One POI told me to call them on their cell if I just wanted to talk about my other offers and needed advice. Feel it out!

[Ganymede18]

the elite name does give you a leg up on the job market, but ultimately it comes down to the quality of your dissertation. if you feel like you have the support to turn out a great one, I would go for the Ph.D. now. However, since you mentioned the possibility of you're research interests changing, a funded M.A. might make sense. Are you just out of undergrad? If you feel unsettled in your interests I'd consider that, provided you think it's a good enough program to make you competitive for top Ph.D. programs (I have no idea). The difference between M.A. and Ph.D. may not mean much in terms of time to degree, since with M.A. under your belt you could well lop off a year or two of Ph.D. (not in terms of class requirements, but in terms of preparation for dissertation).

[TMP]

I say funded MA if you're willing to gamble on the chances of getting in (or not) PhD programs a few years down the road.

I also second the comment on the age factor. I know, I know. A former poster and i used to complain about how we've being discriminated for our age but now 4 years later, I realize why being older than 22 in terms of entering in a PhD program makes sense. I'm not saying that 22 years old is too young but life experience really does help in terms of working with others and bringing new, fresh perspective to your work. I was saying to a few people that if I had applied to Wisconsin and gotten in 2 years ago, right before I "experienced" life and more of academia from the outside when I was done with my MA, I would've just gone. No questions asked. Now I have allowed everything I've learned in my MA program to settle in my mind, along with new perspectives I've encountered during my job and travels to Europe, I have a clearer idea of what I want to pursue and that's one of the reasons why I'm having a difficult time deciding where to go, because now Wisconsin doesn't look as appealing as it did to me 2 years ago (don't ask why I didn't apply then).

Another thing is that I'm noticing a huge difference between myself and some of the students I'm talking to. If you make the most of your MA program, you will definitely have a huge leg up in terms of your academic career. Not only you may have a publishable article, but you gain more solid knowledge of your field and more importantly, professionalization. I am astonished by some of these students' attitudes towards their PhD and (lack of) awareness of how academia really works. Certainly I'm not saying this in a negative way but coming into a PhD program with greater awareness of academic politics and protocols will greatly benefit your career as a PhD student and beyond in terms of interacting with scholars, obtaining fellowships, and making the most of your time prepping for the comps and doing your dissertation. Some PhD programs generally like to take advantage of the naivety for their own particular benefit, not necessarily the students'.

Consider taking your sweet time by going the funded MA route and hope for the best in your next cycle of PhD applications.

[Nordicllama]

I thought getting in somewhere would allow me to focus on my studies again. Nope. Now I just obsess about which minor fields to pick, what my summer reading list is going to be, and where I'm going to live. Fail.

[oseirus]

I thought getting in somewhere would allow me to focus on my studies again. Nope. Now I just obsess about which minor fields to pick, what my summer reading list is going to be, and where I'm going to live. Fail.

for me the worst part of getting in hasn't been the "getting in" but rather the failed chance to rail at teachers and post a "this is for ALL those who doubted me". Unfortunately, since HS teachers have expected this of me and I have done my darndest to not only lower their expectations but to be unbelievably underwhelming. I ran away from academia and did other "things" and yet even my high school teacher has been like "what took you so long"? Now the pressure is on again. In the parlance of the 1337 speakers ... FML

[Nordicllama]

for me the worst part of getting in hasn't been the "getting in" but rather the failed chance to rail at teachers and post a "this is for ALL those who doubted me". Unfortunately, since HS teachers have expected this of me and I have done my darndest to not only lower their expectations but to be unbelievably underwhelming. I ran away from academia and did other "things" and yet even my high school teacher has been like "what took you so long"? Now the pressure is on again. In the parlance of the 1337 speakers ... FML

You're going to change the course of history as we know it. You're probably a closet overachiever

[Sigaba]

There's a concept bouncing around in this thread that I think poses a risk to any and to all who use it. That concept is the "selling" of one's self to a program in order leverage additional funding.

IMO, this is not a tactic that anyone on this BB should use--not even applicants as successful as Safferz. (Correction: especially applicants like Safferz).

Here's why. The interpersonal and political dynamics of the departments that have accepted you comprise a massive black box. Once you're in a program and you start developing relationships with professors and developing as a historian, you might be allowed to see inside portions of this box. But right now, as a newly admitted student who doesn't have a day's worth of class time, you are the proverbial hog staring at a wristwatch.

If you try to "sell" yourself for more money, especially by playing one program's offer against another, you are taking a huge risk that is entirely avoidable. That risk is rubbing the wrong person the wrong way. Are you one hundred percent sure that POIs at institutions A, B, and C don't know each other or hat they've not broken bread at a conference or two or that they helped each other out at some time in the past, or that they're former classmates or that they're neighbors on Facebook? Do you know for certain that they're not already communicating amongst themselves about you? I have experience in the Ivory Tower as well as the private sector and it is my experience that the Powers That Be always talk among themselves and compare notes--even when they're fierce rivals. (And sometimes, especially if they’re fierce rivals.)

How much extra money can such a tactic get you to make it worth the risk of getting off on the wrong foot with a POI? A thousand dollars? Five thousand dollars? What good is the extra money going to do you if you're on professors' bad side?

There are things about your areas of interest that only professors can show you, lessons that only they can teach, and pitfalls only they can help you avoid. Even if they really like you, they're going to let you flounder around until you figure things out for yourself, use you as a chew toy, yell “look out” after you’ve hit a tree, and flat out knock you on your backside on a regular basis. Do you want to risk going through these experiences with one or more professors having a skeptical view of you because you "sold" them something? If so, well, sell away and may the Force be with you always.

But I ask: Why not try an honest approach? How about leading with something like the following. "I want to attend your program and I would like to talk about opportunities for additional funding. My concern is that, even with the generous offer I've received, I may not be able to make ends meet." Or, "I've also received a very generous offer from the University of Happyland. Can you tell me more about your program/your work/your expectations of me/your other graduate students/the quality of life here so I can make the best decision?" [The "for me" is implied.] Both of these approaches, as well as others in the same spirit, make the discussion about money but without "selling."

If you're still thinking about the "sell" approach, think about the following diagnostic question: DO YOU HAVE GAME? And by "game," I mean are you a person who has the proven ability to "sell" oneself successfully? Do you routinely "win people over"? Are you highly successful in your pursuit of those who interest you romantically? Do you regularly get yourself out of serious jams with your communication skills? Are you the life of the party? Are you the alpha male/female in the pack? Are you the shot-caller in your set? Are you the belle of the ball? If the answer to all these questions is "yes," then maybe it is worth taking a chance--but even then, there's that black box.

What’s in that black box that can be so bad? Well, one of you has a quote by Raymond Williams as a signature. Have you ever really gotten to know historians who seek to embody the ideas and values of intellectual giants like Williams and other critics of the exploitive, dehumanizing nature of capitalism? How long do you think it is going to take them to sniff out your “sell”? Do you think they’re going to say “Ah, it is all part of the marketplace. Here’s some more money. Well played, player.”

Edited March 9, 2012 by Sigaba

[TMP]

^ in short: YOUR job is done. Don't go begging for more money and sell yourself again- they already want you and want to find ways to bring you in the program. Let them sell themselves to YOU and dangle the money in front of you. One of my POIs knows all about the funding package details because she's heard about it through the other POI at some point (perhaps not this year but more in the past) and knows exactly what she needs to do to make hers look more attractive and just as competitive. And um... it's kind of working like a charm...

[oseirus]

You're going to change the course of history as we know it. You're probably a closet overachiever

I think this youth speaks for me

[uhohlemonster]

NOW I GET TO JOIN THIS THREAD. Hey. Sup.

[oseirus]

NOW I GET TO JOIN THIS THREAD. Hey. Sup.

Hey lady! We've been waiting on ya

[Nordicllama]

Bienvenido, Monster!

[Safferz]

Just got back from my last campus visit, and my decision is made. Harvard it is!

[goldielocks]

Congrats, Safferz!

[oseirus]

Just got back from my last campus visit, and my decision is made. Harvard it is!

YAAAAAY :-)

[Hogs of War]

Just got back from my last campus visit, and my decision is made. Harvard it is!

Congrats!

[Safferz]

Thanks guys! I'm going to sit on it a few days before officially accepting the offer, but I really loved it there and think it's a great fit for me. Best of luck to all of you still making decisions, it really is a difficult process!

[TMP]

Congrats Safferz! I was wondering how you were doing!

Ugh, I do think it's going to be harder than I thought. Wisconsin's beginning to win me over.... and I'm losing my grip on OSU....

[uhohlemonster]

CONGRATS SAFFERZ! That's amazing!!!!!!

I think I've made my decision too. I think I will go to NYU even if Rutgers pulls through. I'm going to wait for my meeting with my POI at NYU so I'm sure, but I'm feeling good about it and am seeing the pros/cons with Rutgers more clearly. Should I remove my name off the Rutgers wait list when I'm sure about it?! What do you guys think? Part of me wants to see Rutgers offer if it ever comes through, but I don't want to let them continue to think they are definitely my 1st choice, which is what I said prior. eeeep thoughts?

Edited March 12, 2012 by uhohlemonster

[Sigaba]

CONGRATS SAFFERZ! That's amazing!!!!!!

I think I've made my decision too. I think I will go to NYU even if Rutgers pulls through. I'm going to wait for my meeting with my POI at NYU so I'm sure, but I'm feeling good about it and am seeing the pros/cons with Rutgers more clearly. Should I remove my name off the Rutgers wait list when I'm sure about it?! What do you guys think? Part of me wants to see Rutgers offer if it ever comes through, but I don't want to let them continue to think they are definitely my 1st choice, which is what I said prior. eeeep thoughts?

UM--

Before you make a decision, I strongly recommend that you wait until after you've done all of your due diligence (including waiting to see what Rutgers offers you but especially your meeting with your NYU POI).

And once you make a decision, take another look at post #96--there's a lot of wisdom in it.

[TMP]

If you are 100% sure about NYU, you NEED to pull your name off so others can have the chance of getting off the list. If you are sure that if Rutgers pulls through and you WILL go there, then do not accept anything right now. You have until April 15th to decide. It will not be pretty if Rutgers calls you on the 15th and you only have 3 hours to decide between the two programs.

Let this NYU decision settle for a bit. I find it helps to put things in perspective.