oseirus Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Well, y'all have argued it out, but just want to state that I have very willingly lived in the East for almost a decade now. But in New York City, which is in a league all its own. (As for Boston, no comment! ). So I am available if anyone wants tips on living in this fine city on a student's budget OR if they want to be discouraged from taking an offer from UCI and having to live in one of the most sterile places in the U.S. -- southern Orange County -- PM, PM! (Though if you must, I can still pass on some Vietnamese dining recommendations -- I do miss that.) And pudewen, get yourself to the Berkshires! Actually share with ALL of us O wise and noble Lafayette, how one DOES live on a budget in the City. Better yet if you can give us tips to even B.O.B. (ball on a budget), that would be even better
CageFree Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 having to live in one of the most sterile places in the U.S. -- southern Orange County -- Yep. That describes most of OC though, with the exception of Huntington Beach and Seal Beach.. and maybe Laguna Beach. Just one gigantic suburban nightmare. I live in North OC, unfortunately, so I go to Long Beach or the South Bay to get the hell away from this place pretty often.
theregalrenegade Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Yep. That describes most of OC though, with the exception of Huntington Beach and Seal Beach.. and maybe Laguna Beach. Just one gigantic suburban nightmare. I live in North OC, unfortunately, so I go to Long Beach or the South Bay to get the hell away from this place pretty often. Yep, most of the beach cities will do...except Newport. Well, even Newport has its not so fake and smoothed over parts. The local surfer scene rather than the upscale Fashion Island scene.
lafayette Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Yep. That describes most of OC though, with the exception of Huntington Beach and Seal Beach.. and maybe Laguna Beach. Just one gigantic suburban nightmare. I live in North OC, unfortunately, so I go to Long Beach or the South Bay to get the hell away from this place pretty often. I had no idea I had so many fellow history folks in OC! I recommend Lisa McGirr's Suburban Warriors: Origins of the New American Right to all of you.
runaway Posted March 28, 2012 Author Posted March 28, 2012 Actually share with ALL of us O wise and noble Lafayette, how one DOES live on a budget in the City. Better yet if you can give us tips to even B.O.B. (ball on a budget), that would be even better Lafayette might have different answers, but: live in the outer boros, learn to cook for yourself, figure out the schedule of free cultural events, and learn how to use your student discount to your advantage It's actually not that hard!
oseirus Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Lafayette might have different answers, but: live in the outer boros, learn to cook for yourself, figure out the schedule of free cultural events, and learn how to use your student discount to your advantage It's actually not that hard! the outer boroughs? but then how does one get to classes in say you're at NYU, Columbia, etc? Where is the convenience?
lafayette Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) the outer boroughs? but then how does one get to classes in say you're at NYU, Columbia, etc? Where is the convenience? All flows into Manhattan! But really -- those trains are working to get as many people in and out of Manhattan on any given workday ... I am headed from Brooklyn to a library at NYU right now and it will probably take me oh 20 minutes? I live in a 'hood that has cheaper prices because it's off the G train -- the one line that doesn't go into Manhattan -- but really, transfers are near and not that hard, so it's still not bad. Columbia is a totally different story, but you can live cheaply in Harlem and Washington Heights if you want to be nearby. My old roommate did the ol' Columbia trek and it drove him a little crazy, but for him it was just lots of reading time, which he always needed more of anyway. And wherever you start from, it's always just $2.25 ... Edited March 28, 2012 by lafayette
runaway Posted March 28, 2012 Author Posted March 28, 2012 All flows into Manhattan! But really -- those trains are working to get as many people in and out of Manhattan on any given workday ... I am headed from Brooklyn to a library at NYU right now and it will probably take me oh 20 minutes? I live in a 'hood that has cheaper prices because it's off the G train -- the one line that doesn't go into Manhattan -- but really, transfers are near and not that hard, so it's still not bad. Columbia is a totally different story, but you can live cheaply in Harlem and Washington Heights if you want to be nearby. My old roommate did the ol' Columbia trek and it drove him a little crazy but for him, it was just lots of reading time, which he always needed more of anyway. And wherever you start from, it's always just $2.25 ... Exactly! You can also pick a neighborhood based on proximity to the subway lines so you don't have to transfer. Besides cost of living being cheaper-- not just rent but groceries, etc-- there is so much of New York to experience that isn't in Manhattan. I lived in Greenpoint for a while and spoke more Polish there than I do here in Warsaw. NYC is such a vibrant place, and a lot of that vibrancy happens to take place across the river.* *I still have yet to be convinced that crossing the Hudson is the same. Sorry, Jersey.
oseirus Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 *I still have yet to be convinced that crossing the Hudson is the same. Sorry, Jersey. Do you really want to start w/Jerseyites? They might take umbrage at your assertions and I'm by NO means implying the state is connected to the so-called "mob" in a shape or form but I would choose my words carefully if I were you. Cement shoes etc
jogatoronto Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 How does one go about cutting a list of 13 schools down to a reasonable number? I have neither the funds nor the time to apply to 13 PhD programs. what are the most important factors to take into account when deciding on whether to apply to a certain school? Some schools are already on the 'definitely applying' to list: my undergrad uni (UToronto), my masters uni (LSE), and 2 American dream programs that seem to be a good fit, both in terms of academics and location. Also, is there a general consensus on contacting professors? I want to...but I also don't want to ruin my chances by saying something stupid. Sorry, if these questions have already been asked and answered!
czesc Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 ^ Related q: what's a reasonable number? When I applied to law school I think I sent apps to nearly 20...I guess it'd be crazy to try to hedge my bets anywhere near that much now?
oseirus Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I don't think there really is a magic # as far as the amount of school one applies to. Someone on the 2012 thread (maybe it was monster?) I think applied to some where north of 10 schools ( I think her # was 13?) and I personally only applied to 4 (which I now feel was a mistake). So you have to do what you feel is best for you and which programs could really nurture you, in preparation for getting a job after.
jogatoronto Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Oseirus is right (I'm sure i'll be saying this a lot over the next year). Thinking about which programs would provide you with the best preparation for getting a job after you graduate is a very important factor. I'm looking to apply to 9 programs. I think 20 might be a lot for some people but if you can afford to do that, you are a good fit in all 20 programs, and you have the time to, then why not?
czesc Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Thanks...I guess one of the reasons I wouldn't apply to 20 (beyond lack of fit) is because grad school apps require you to individualize virtually every aspect of an application, and I feel like this would be taxing on my recommenders (not to mention me - I'm doing all this while working!) Still, I want to apply to a large enough number to be admitted somewhere, given that whether or not I feel I found a fit won't necessarily mean a certain department, or many departments will. So while I'm sure there's no magic number...it sounds like somewhere around 8-10 is standard?
CageFree Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I applied to 6, though originally it was 7 (decided not to apply to San Diego at the last minute). I think at least 5, and I don't think I'd do more than 10, personally... I'd hate to ask for THAT many letters of rec.
lafayette Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Right now I have a definite list of 5, with 2 others as maybes (fit might be there, maybe not). The problem is that my choices are all very top programs and I'm struggling with the conflicting advice to pick personal "safeties" vs. don't apply anywhere where, if it's the only one you get into, you wouldn't particularly want to go. I am considering doing one round with all my top picks (I am confident I'll succeed somewhere, but it really seems with this you process you never know) .... & then if I get uniformly rejected, open up the playing field the following year. Might be ridiculous because it's expensive and I AM approaching the end of my twenties, sigh. Edited March 29, 2012 by lafayette
lafayette Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Also, is there a general consensus on contacting professors? I want to...but I also don't want to ruin my chances by saying something stupid. Sorry, if these questions have already been asked and answered! joga ... here's links to two threads that might be of help: There've been others too. It seems everyone does it a bit differently, but having lurked around these parts last app. season, I am going to take the advice of contacting POIs, despite how awkward the process may feel. One, it seems that you want to know if that person is going to be on leave or not during the selection process / your first year, which can save you from a potential rejection based on that alone. Plus, it seems common enough, so your POI probably won't be surprised. And although it's more casual (which can be a good thing), I doubt you'll say anything 'harmful' if you think it through before you hit send
czesc Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Right now I have a definite list of 5, with 2 others as maybes (fit might be there, maybe not). The problem is that my choices are all very top programs and I'm struggling with the conflicting advice to pick personal "safeties" vs. don't apply anywhere where, if it's the only one you get into, you wouldn't particularly want to go. I am considering doing one round with all my top picks (I am confident I'll succeed somewhere, but it really seems with this you process you never know) .... & then if I get uniformly rejected, open up the playing field the following year. Might be ridiculous because it's expensive and I AM approaching the end of my twenties, sigh. This is more or less my exact situation...
Sigaba Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Right now I have a definite list of 5, with 2 others as maybes (fit might be there, maybe not). The problem is that my choices are all very top programs and I'm struggling with the conflicting advice to pick personal "safeties" vs. don't apply anywhere where, if it's the only one you get into, you wouldn't particularly want to go. I am considering doing one round with all my top picks (I am confident I'll succeed somewhere, but it really seems with this you process you never know) .... & then if I get uniformly rejected, open up the playing field the following year. Might be ridiculous because it's expensive and I AM approaching the end of my twenties, sigh. lafayette-- The process of selecting which programs you want to attend may benefit from refining one's definition of "top program" and "safeties." Is a top program one that has institutional prestige, a top tier faculty roster, and an established track record of its graduates getting TT jobs? Or is a top program one that has key faculty members who have research interests similar to yours and a departmental culture conducive to your personality traits? Is a 'safety' school a program with relatively less institutional prestige, a middle of the road faculty roster, and a mixed record of its graduates getting TT? Or is a 'safety' school one that has key faculty members who have research interests similar to yours and a departmental culture conductive to your personality traits? What I'm suggesting is that one's perspective can play a key role in winnowing down the options and finding programs in which one will fit. I am also suggesting--and the following will be controversial--that one should balance long term objectives with short term goals. That is, before you can compete for a TT job, you, in reverse order, need to get expert training as a professional academic historian, you need to finish a dissertation, you need to pick a dissertation topic, you need to pass qualifying exams, you need to develop relationships with professors, you need to do well in your coursework, and you need to be admitted into a program. That is, the objective is not simply to get a TT job. It is also to put yourself into the best position possible to maximize your potential as a historian. For that task, what are regarded as the top programs may not be the best programs for you regardless of who is on the faculty, how much prestige the department has, or the job placement rate.
jogatoronto Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 joga ... here's links to two threads that might be of help: There've been others too. It seems everyone does it a bit differently, but having lurked around these parts last app. season, I am going to take the advice of contacting POIs, despite how awkward the process may feel. One, it seems that you want to know if that person is going to be on leave or not during the selection process / your first year, which can save you from a potential rejection based on that alone. Plus, it seems common enough, so your POI probably won't be surprised. And although it's more casual (which can be a good thing), I doubt you'll say anything 'harmful' if you think it through before you hit send Thanks for the links. After looking over them it seems that contacting professors (and what they say to you in the emails) has no bearing on acceptances. So, there is nothing to worry about.
CageFree Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Contacting them may have no bearing on acceptances, but it can help you get a better sense for the school and whether you'd want to go there. Because I contacted people I found out that there were a couple of professors not taking any students, and two schools that looked good on paper but are not a great fit for me. Plus, contacting them can be a good starting-off point for conversations about your potential topics... finding out what is doable and what's not, whether something has been done to death, and what type of scholarship a particular POI is involved in.
czesc Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) lafayette-- The process of selecting which programs you want to attend may benefit from refining one's definition of "top program" and "safeties." Is a top program one that has institutional prestige, a top tier faculty roster, and an established track record of its graduates getting TT jobs? Or is a top program one that has key faculty members who have research interests similar to yours and a departmental culture conducive to your personality traits? Is a 'safety' school a program with relatively less institutional prestige, a middle of the road faculty roster, and a mixed record of its graduates getting TT? Or is a 'safety' school one that has key faculty members who have research interests similar to yours and a departmental culture conductive to your personality traits? I can't speak for lafayette, but for me the "top" programs, while they correlate with prestige, are problematic because they are also the schools with the most statistically difficult to surmount acceptance rates, and the safeties would be those which would give me a greater chance of being able to pursue any of the things you mentioned, both suitable training and professional development - because we can all agree admission is the first step. The problem is really twofold: 1. I need to find schools that are good fits that are more likely to admit me 2. I need to determine what to do if all the schools that are good fits are very unlikely to admit me Edited March 30, 2012 by czesc
oseirus Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I can't speak for lafayette, but for me the "top" programs, while they correlate with prestige, are problematic because they are also the schools with the most statistically difficult to surmount acceptance rates, and the safeties would be those which would give me a greater chance of being able to pursue any of the things you mentioned, both suitable training and professional development - because we can all agree admission is the first step. The problem is really twofold: 1. I need to find schools that are good fits that are more likely to admit me 2. I need to determine what to do if all the schools that are good fits are very unlikely to admit me I think a question you have to honestly ask your: What do I want to do post grad? Now if you're going the academia route, you can choose a school like say Northwestern, if you're an African historian & those "in the know" will respect that degree (if your profs don't slander/libel you, on your way out the door). Conversely, if you are going to go work in a non-academic field, your employer might not necessarily be part of that the cognoscenti, thus if you have a degree in African history from Brown (this is an example not a fact folks), then you'll prolly do better if you're competiting w/someone w/a similar degree from say University of Florida. There's a reason why the ivies hold sway even @ the graduate level.
lafayette Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) lafayette-- The process of selecting which programs you want to attend may benefit from refining one's definition of "top program" and "safeties." Is a top program one that has institutional prestige, a top tier faculty roster, and an established track record of its graduates getting TT jobs? Or is a top program one that has key faculty members who have research interests similar to yours and a departmental culture conducive to your personality traits? Is a 'safety' school a program with relatively less institutional prestige, a middle of the road faculty roster, and a mixed record of its graduates getting TT? Or is a 'safety' school one that has key faculty members who have research interests similar to yours and a departmental culture conductive to your personality traits? Thanks sigaba. My top choices right now are those with more or less everything you mentioned in your first paragraph: institutional prestige, a top tier faculty roster WITH key faculty members I'd like to work with, and an excellent TT track record. But as czesc says, these also probably happen to be the programs statistically the most difficult to get into. But you're right, I should reconsider perhaps that which is a "safety" for me: if I find key faculty with which to work, I should consider it. It is hard to not be haunted a little with thoughts about TT placement, however. I do know that it does not rest entirely on the department: but with me, and my dissertation, and perhaps with an advisor willing to fight for me. But nonetheless. I want to be the best-trained historian I can be, but hey, is it too much to dream that that can't also offer a stable career? I am an Americanist so in some regards finding fit might be easier for me than others, as most departments do have more faculty in U.S. fields. I will contact POIs at some point, however, to see if I can get any feedback about my specific project ... What are the aspects that I should be looking for to determine a department's culture? Size of cohort, etc.? Edited March 30, 2012 by lafayette
czesc Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I think a question you have to honestly ask your: What do I want to do post grad? Now if you're going the academia route, you can choose a school like say Northwestern, if you're an African historian & those "in the know" will respect that degree (if your profs don't slander/libel you, on your way out the door). Conversely, if you are going to go work in a non-academic field, your employer might not necessarily be part of that the cognoscenti, thus if you have a degree in African history from Brown (this is an example not a fact folks), then you'll prolly do better if you're competiting w/someone w/a similar degree from say University of Florida. There's a reason why the ivies hold sway even @ the graduate level. Thanks. I am pretty sure I am "going the academia route," at least as my first choice. But given the considerable risk of that not working out, I think it makes a lot of sense to consider lay opinion of the degree as well...not that I have high hopes many employers would consider someone who spent seven years cooped up doing a history degree anywhere very competitive. I want to be the best-trained historian I can be, but hey, is it too much to dream that that can't also offer a stable career? I honestly think this has to be at least tied for the most important factor unless, in the very likely event things do not work out, there's some way you can slot back into some other job after grad school easily, or else are okay with scrambling in entry level positions in your mid-30s, competing with kids right out of college, as long as you've been incredibly well-trained in something you will not have the chance to pursue as a profession. Edited March 30, 2012 by czesc
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