Why didn't I get in?

[nupdogg86]

Hello all,

I'm new to the site, and wanted to get people's opinions on a question. I was admitted to SHU's Whitehead School but was rejected from Elliot, SIS, and presumably will not get into SFS. I am thinking about deferment for a year so that I could improve my application but first I wanted to get opinions on why I didn't get admitted to the school in the first place.

The easy answer would be my low undergraduate GPA, but when I brought that issue up with the advisors, they said that since I was a science major, they would look primarily at my non-science courses/courses that would be more relevant to the graduate program.

I'm hoping that other people here will be able to shed some light on the matter, and hopefully give me some good ideas for how to improve my application package.

stats:

GRE: 690V, 720Q, 5.5 AW

GPA: 2.81 (Neuroscience) but non-science courses were all A's. Also took 2 Econ (micro/macro) and 1 IR class at local JC's, w/ all A's.

1 year of medical school, but withdrew (didn't like it)

Work experience - undergraduate science research for 2 years at UCLA.

Spent a year studying in the Caribbeans.

2 months in Shanghai interning at a law firm and taking intensive mandarin classes.

Basic mandarin skills, hoping to improve them to conversational in grad school.

Currently tutoring SAT's/GRE's/general school subjects

Thank you!

[fenderpete]

What programs (IR, IDEV, MPH) did you apply to and what was your personal statement like?

[critic1]

I would take a couple of graduate courses in your field of interest in order to offset your undergrad G.P.A. If you plan to defer because you want to apply to other schools in the Fall- that's wasting your time and the school's. It's not worth it to attend a program you don't have any interest in. Have you visited the school? You may get a different feel for it if you meet faculty and other students. At the end of the day- as long as you can handle graduate courses in your program to show professors you're capable of handling grad school (and get recommendation letters from them if possible) this should offset your undergrad G.P.A.

Edited March 10, 2012 by critic1

[MYRNIST]

A sub 3.0 GPA will get you auto-rejected at most good schools, barring other aspects of your application being amazingly strong to compensate. Unfortunately yours are not - good but not great GRE, no real IR work experience, not particularly strong language background etc. If you want to get into good schools you have a lot of "make up" work to do. Study up and score higher on the GRE, get a relevant IR internship, take more classes, and maybe you'll get in somewhere better next year.

Edited March 10, 2012 by MYRNIST

[piquant777]

Hey! Sorry for your dilemma This is a great forum though to get honest answers. I would say that your biggest problem isn't really undergrad GPA (though it isn't helping), but lack of relevant experience. Even if you had a full GPA point higher (say, 3.8) I would have given you only so-so chances because your work experience isn't that relevant to IR. Your year abroad was studying, not working, and a two-month internship isn't really enough to compensate. Working as an SAT/GRE tutor is also definitely not useful for your app and if you are going to apply again, I would get a job in your planned field of study ASAP. That being said it's going to take a lot of time and work to catch up to speed IMHO (i.e. prob not in time for next fall), so the best idea if you really are wedded to grad school now I think is to enroll at the school that already accepted you.

Agreed that it would be helpful to know your planned field of study. If you were going for MPH or something in health then your experiences would look a bit more relevant (though quitting any type of school doesn't help and I would also address that tactfully in the personal statement).

[TypeA]

I sympathize with the difficulty of this, as a fellow Neuroscience major who shifted gears from pre-med to policy. And I second the question about your personal statement/SOP. Did you present defined academic interests and specifically describe the evolution of your passions from medicine to IR/policy/whatever? While medical school admission might be impressive on paper, it also seems like it could be a bit disjointed from whatever you're pursuing now. Adcomms likely need to see something in your statement that this isn't your "fallback" plan because medical school didn't work out.

[see_bella]

I think your GRE scores are good. If you got accepted into Whitehead, do you not want to go there? Why or why not? If you applied for a masters at Whitehead, you can always boost your chances of getting into a PhD program into a top school by getting god grades/gpa during the masters, and more research experience. You gotta start somewhere.

[Sigaba]

Hello all,

I'm new to the site, and wanted to get people's opinions on a question. I was admitted to SHU's Whitehead School but was rejected from Elliot, SIS, and presumably will not get into SFS. I am thinking about deferment for a year so that I could improve my application but first I wanted to get opinions on why I didn't get admitted to the school in the first place.

MOO, the best way to answer this question is to contact people at Elliot and SIS who can tell you with 100% certainty why you didn't get in. There is no substitute for getting your information directly from the source.

I understand that initiating this kind of conversation can inspire anxiety but you need to ask yourself how badly do you really want to know how to improve yourself.

HTH.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Sigaba

[KJ90]

There's a few things that are missing from your profile such as the strength of your SOP and LORs. Have you had anyone read your SOP and how confident are you in the LORs?

I'll give my two cents on each part of your profile that you posted based on other applicant profiles I've seen.

GRE: You have a decent GRE score so it's fine. IMO a good GRE score is a +, a bad one can be made up for by other aspects of your application such as GPA or experience.

Academics: As MYRINIST stated, there is a auto-reject for low GPA unless other parts of the application is amazing, namely extensive work experience or demonstrations of interest. You said non-science courses were all A's but did not specify what kind of courses. If admissions officers overlook your GPA it will depend on what courses you take (your school's reputation for that particular departments counts as well). In many ways, having gone to medical school and decided to change careers can be seen as both good and bad. It is good in the sense that you realize that medicine is not for you and that you feel you are better off with other pursuits. To avoid being labeled as a quitter you will have to show how you changed your mind, through various experiences and such (which you have by going to Shanghai but 2 months is not much =/). The key is specificity and knowing exactly what interests you and expressing it through various parts of your application. I've taken Chinese since freshman year, studied abroad in Beijing for a semester, and I can honestly say that I still need to do a lot to learn Mandarin.

Work Experience: I'm not sure how valuable science research is. I did research in my earlier years but I do not include them in my CV. I feel there are more relevant things.

Travel Abroad: You have some but not enough. Most people travel to their region of interest multiple times. I'm not sure how studying a year in Caribbean would be helpful though. You can argue that your trip to Shanghai was inspirational and motivated you to pursue China studies but it will not compare to someone who spend their entire undergrad studying/traveling to China. There are plenty of applicants with that background.

Language: Fact, IR grad students have an advanced or almost fluent level of proficiency in a second non-native language. Many graduate schools do not even offer language classes.

Since you have already graduated you can throw out academics. Your GRE score is good enough so what you would need to focus on to strengthen your application is to build a story, a background that explains your interest. A great way is to be as specific as you can. In your case, it makes sense to study China. Perhaps you can go back and gain more work experience. It will give you more credibility when you say that you are interested in international relations when you have the background.

Edited March 10, 2012 by KJ90

[charlotte_asia]

My "at a glance" thought regarding your profile is that it sends no clear "message." Law firm in Beijing, studying in the Caribbean, neuroscience, med school then dropped out, etc.

Everyone goes through periods of self-discovery, realizing this career wasn't for them, this major wasn't for them, etc. It's great you realized that about medicine before it was too late and had the guts to do something about it. There isn't anything wrong with that process. But it does make it a little harder for grad school admissions committees to see your clear commitment to IR/public policy and feel that your degree at their school is going to take you to great places in that field.

One's profile and experiences do not need to be a tight little perfect package, but they should give the admissions committees a general sense of your story- where are you coming from and where you are going. If you do not want to accept at SHU, perhaps take the next two years to find your IR niche. Really finding what you love at one job or internship and trying to get more experience in that professional trajectory (preferably related to the mandarin skills you are working on) would be a great way to do so. You could address this journey in your SOP, which would probably be the most important component of your applications.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[nupdogg86]

What programs (IR, IDEV, MPH) did you apply to and what was your personal statement like?

I applied to IR Programs in mostly international security or US foreign policy

[nupdogg86]

I think your GRE scores are good. If you got accepted into Whitehead, do you not want to go there? Why or why not? If you applied for a masters at Whitehead, you can always boost your chances of getting into a PhD program into a top school by getting god grades/gpa during the masters, and more research experience. You gotta start somewhere.

I was really hoping to get into a D.C. school - I'd get a ton more opportunities there than I would get at Seton Hall. SHU is close to NYC and has strong ties to the UN, which is great, but ideally I'd want to be in DC to take advantage of State Department/DoD internships or even White House internship opportunities.

[nupdogg86]

Thanks everyone for your great advice. I'm gonna talk to the admissions advisors at GW on monday and see what they say. Most likely, if I can't reasonably improve my application within a year, I'd go to SHU.

In the meantime, does anyone know any good websites to look for IR internship opportunities?

[washdc]

I was really hoping to get into a D.C. school - I'd get a ton more opportunities there than I would get at Seton Hall. SHU is close to NYC and has strong ties to the UN, which is great, but ideally I'd want to be in DC to take advantage of State Department/DoD internships or even White House internship opportunities.

You know, you can do State and DoD internships outside of DC.. even abroad. You probably will most likely not get a White House internship with your stats. Either way, all of these internships require good stats as though you're applying to grad school all over again. I think they said of 4000+ applications this past summer, only 350 people were admitted as UN interns this past summer. Like someone else mentioned, you need to start somewhere.. what would you do in this gap year? Did you land a fellowship or internship that will boost your resume? Are you going to take more classes to boost your GPA? If you don't have a plan solidified now, another year will just look like an empty year where you had no solid plan.

[washdc]

Thanks everyone for your great advice. I'm gonna talk to the admissions advisors at GW on monday and see what they say. Most likely, if I can't reasonably improve my application within a year, I'd go to SHU. In the meantime, does anyone know any good websites to look for IR internship opportunities?

You can go to usajobs.gov or each department's website. I believe State for the Fall is still open and accepting applications, however you need to be an enrolled student for all of these internship opportunities. So the sooner you accept whichever school you're going to, then get a letter from them to state you will be attending in the Fall, the sooner you can start applying for internships. Most government internships you'll be applying 6 - 12 months in advance of the start date. For instance NATO takes about a year.. CIA takes 9 months to a year, depending on how fast your clearance can be obtained.